Young People's view of the hobby

[Coryton]

I agree with your point about cyber reality.  However, perhaps the reason that people make their own models is that they also enjoy doing something creative.

 

Why else do people paint, make pots, join choirs, play musical instruments, tinker with classic cars, etc. People also enjoy tactile objects which is one reason they buy/collect models. 

 

I think that's the same point I was trying to make, though I would not limit the idea of creativity to physical objects.

 

Creating a world in Minecraft can be a very creative act, but is it something rather different to building a model railway.

[ess1uk]

I took my 14 year old daughter to the Spalding show on Sunday and all she wanted was a horse on our layout and spotted horses on many of the layouts at the show!

The other thing she wanted was for “all the old people to stop pushing past and say excuse me”.

[Happy Hippo]

No - a Monarch is a re-named GWR King series Star class locomotive.

When I was in Junior School, I had a teacher called Mrs Thomas.  she was very strict, but also fair.  She had no favourites in the class, and she taught me a great deal, and not just the three R's.  When a question was asked such as'What is a Monarch?' she would direct the child to a dictionary, and tell them to come back once they had found the answer. It was then she would explain in greater detail that it could have various meanings, and would explain those, not just to the child in question, but to the rest of the class as well.  She was brilliant!

 

But moving back to the question of a young person's view of the hobby I would suggest that this is somewhat tempered by their parent(s) view of life in general.

 

If they are encouraged and helped, they are more likely to want to continue in the hobby.  Having a parent or close relative, or perhaps a near neighbour who will share their hobby and allow the  youngster to have a go has got to have a positive effect on the individual.

 

I've always 'sold' model railways as an educational tool!  Which other hobby requires historical research, practical constructional skills, basic or even advanced electronics, art and design and engineering, to name but a few of the areas that model railways encompass?

[RLBH]

I know quite a few gamers and you would think that computer gaming would have killed off table top games and board games. But apparently they have never been more popular.

 

Indeed so - my wife and I are fairly enthusiastic board gamers, and there are some games out there that are brilliant in both sophistication and simplicity. The board gaming community gets as annoyed with people saying 'so do you like Monopoly' as railway modellers do with people who talk about train sets!

 

Speaking as a youngish person - the main blockers to model railways are money and space. Not a lot can be done about space, though micro-layouts and smaller scales help when you don't have a convenient garage, shed or attic.

 

Money is more of a seemingly-needless problem, and the cost issue seems to be one that doesn't go away. Paying well over £100 for some injection moulded plastic and an electric motor is a hard sell. Hornby's Railroad range is a brilliant idea on this front, but quite limited in its offerings.

[Gunnbrikt]

I think there isn't an issue with the hobby fading away or that young people are too fixated by technology (just look at how well Game Workshop is doing selling miniatures at the moment). It's just that most new entrants to the hobby aren't your usual "young" people (i.e. 15-25 year olds) but more likely late 20s to late 30s. 

 

From what I've observed a lot of younger people get into the hobby from either having a trainset as a kid or having a fascination with train or model making in general. Then during their teenage years and early twenties they lose interest to in it due to things such as video games, relationships and generally from the geeky image model railways have. Then that spark returns in their late 20s to late 30s when they have the space and less cares about the stigma surrounding model railways. 

 

As with any hobby it will evolve over time and new people will start it and veterans leave it. The key though is to ensure that the hobby is as accessible, friendly and welcoming as possible to these new hobbyists

 

 

[brack]

The other thing she wanted was for “all the old people to stop pushing past and say excuse me”.

I'm in my 30s and often have the same thought at shows...

[brack]

People still want a tactile experience, there has been something of a resurgence in the popularity of vinyl as a music carrier despite it's technical limitations as people like the wider experience of playing music on a record player. Ditto games, models, cameras which retain a full suite of manual controls etc. However I suspect that people like these experiences as being additional to the modern digital alternatives, not so much as an alternative.

I build models because I enjoy the research and I enjoy making something physical that works. I don't show things to others much, but on my shelves its nice to have several unique models that I made and which nobody else has. I've produced several loco kits using 3d printing for which I taught myself CAD, and although I'm pretty chuffed when I look at my cad all finished, it doesn't feel real until its in my hands as a physical object. My guess is that as the rest of the world (and what people do at work) becomes increasingly virtual/digital then a hobby which offers physical creativity would be valued as a sort of relief from that.

I suppose if what you mostly enjoyed was operating, then a virtual layout might fulfill your needs, but not so much for those who enjoy making stuff or the artistic side of things.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm in my 30s and often have the same thought at shows...

 

I'm in my 40s and definitely think the same. Age doesn't always mean maturity I'm afraid.

 

 

Jason

[RLBH]

I'm in my 30s and often have the same thought at shows...

My wife informs me that model railway exhibitions are positively genteel compared to craft shows. In the pursuit of the right type of bead or yarn, walking frames become offensive weapons.

[The Johnster]

I have to time my attendance at exhibitions, usually to Sunday lunch time, when it is hopefully a bit quieter, because of this problem, part of my wider issue with social phobia, anxiety, and panic attacks.  I usually have to make an exit about 2.30 when the pressure starts to ramp up.  And I couldn't cope at all with a big show like Warley; too much for me.  Another contributory factor is that many venues are poorly ventilated and over heated, resulting in a stuffy and oppressive atmosphere.  

 

I am now restricting myself to the 2 Cardiff shows and possibly Bristol every year, but I am reliant on public transport and Thornbury is an awkward location from that point of view.  

[Coryton]

I build models because I enjoy the research and I enjoy making something physical that works. I don't show things to others much, but on my shelves its nice to have several unique models that I made and which nobody else has. I've produced several loco kits using 3d printing for which I taught myself CAD, and although I'm pretty chuffed when I look at my cad all finished, it doesn't feel real until its in my hands as a physical object. My guess is that as the rest of the world (and what people do at work) becomes increasingly virtual/digital then a hobby which offers physical creativity would be valued as a sort of relief from that.

I suppose if what you mostly enjoyed was operating, then a virtual layout might fulfill your needs, but not so much for those who enjoy making stuff or the artistic side of things.

 

Quite. I stare at a computer screen most of the time at work (not all the time...sometimes I actually get to do something hands on...but not often). I don't want a hobby which just means more time on a computer.

 

I enjoy looking at the highly detailed RTR stock on my layout, but I get the most pleasure from stock that I have painted myself...nothing like as good quality as the ones I haven't touched, but something I did myself and couldn't have bought.

[Bill_J]

I'm in my 40s and definitely think the same. Age doesn't always mean maturity I'm afraid.

 

 

Jason

 

I'm in my 60s and I am often ashamed at my age group (and older), for appalling manners and lack of consideration for others. One of my biggest dislikes at exhibitions.

[jjb1970]

I find that the virtual domain has just as much potential for creativity and artistic expression as the physical domain, if anything more as there aren't the same limiting factors as with physical media. I love models and modelling, but I see a whole world of opportunity and potential to use technology to do all sorts of wonderful things.

[Coryton]

I find that the virtual domain has just as much potential for creativity and artistic expression as the physical domain, if anything more as there aren't the same limiting factors as with physical media. I love models and modelling, but I see a whole world of opportunity and potential to use technology to do all sorts of wonderful things.

 

Absolutely. 

 

For example, children come up with absolutely amazing minecraft worlds, unlimited by the resources of (say) having enough Lego bricks to build what their imagination leads them to.

 

But I don't think there is any good evidence that the virtual world will take over completely from physical crafts any time soon.

 

A quick browse on ebay will show you that there must be a lot of people out there making things, be it scale models, dolls houses, jewellery or some other craft. 

 

Maybe they're all just waiting for virtual reality to become better. But I suspect not.

[Coryton]

I am now restricting myself to the 2 Cardiff shows and possibly Bristol every year, but I am reliant on public transport and Thornbury is an awkward location from that point of view.  

 

Thornbury isn't too bad - there is a bus service almost door to door from Bristol Parkway (albeit with a busy-ish road to cross). The times really don't fit well with trains from points West though, so to some extent it depends how interested you are in modern trains while you wait...

[The Johnster]

No, it's do-able from Cardiff via Parkway, even on a Sunday, and I don't need much of an excuse to get on a train, but it's more of a schlep than it looked on the map, and last year I had to get a taxi from Parkway as there wasn't a bus for another 55 minutes.  I will probably go again, but only if there is a layout or trader that I particularly want to see or buy something from.  Buses are probably better on Saturday, but the venue is bound to be more crowded as well.  Waiting a while for a train back at Parkway is no hardship, but on the way out I like to get there as soon as I can!

Edited November 11, 2018 by The Johnster

[Coryton]

No, it's do-able from Cardiff via Parkway, even on a Sunday, and I don't need much of an excuse to get on a train, but it's more of a schlep than it looked on the map, and last year I had to get a taxi from Parkway as there wasn't a bus for another 55 minutes.  I will probably go again, but only if there is a layout or trader that I particularly want to see or buy something from.  Buses are probably better on Saturday, but the venue is bound to be more crowded as well.  Waiting a while for a train back at Parkway is no hardship, but on the way out I like to get there as soon as I can!

 

Unfortunately things aren't much better on a Saturday, though it's also possible to get the bus from Newport and change at Cribbs Causeway with a much better connection (and while I generally prefer to travel by train, upstairs at the front of a double decker over the Severn Bridge is quite entertaining).

[The Stationmaster]

I'm in my 30s and often have the same thought at shows...

 

I am somewhat older than 30 (a good deal older to be honest), and have the same opinion about many younger (than me) people. (But not about children and youths - most the vast majority of whom are well behaved at shows.)

[Mike at C&M]

 Having a parent or close relative, or perhaps a near neighbour who will share their hobby and allow the  youngster to have a go has got to have a positive effect on the individual.

 

I've always 'sold' model railways as an educational tool!  Which other hobby requires historical research, practical constructional skills, basic or even advanced electronics, art and design and engineering, to name but a few of the areas that model railways encompass?

I agree entirely with your words, "Happy Hippo".

 

Many of the family projects that we see coming through our shop are often Grandparents and Grandchildren, and the enthusiasm of either generation rubs off on the other, especially if they both work together, rather than the youngster being told what to do. The intermediate generation are not always actively involved, but are often happy to fund the hobby through birthday/Christmas presents to allow them to progress with their project.

 

I too look to sell model railways as something that can involve a huge number of different skills, if you wish it to. Planning is another skill I would add to your list. And don't be afraid to throw in the possibility of using other "toys" - I regularly built Lego buildings when using my father's Hornby Dublo 3-rail, and then the joy of 'Instant Whip' printing buildings on the inside of their packets!

 

I have a rack in my shop for Peco points which is made up of Knex, many youngsters spot this and it enables me to re-inforce the point that there are many different ways to construct items for your layout (another excellent recent example is the Aberdeen MRC layout on the "Great Model Railway Challenge").

 

One of the great thrills I get is to see is a youngster's enthusiasm as he/she gets to appreciate how many different things you can do within the hobby, and in many cases, how coherent the young mind can be when it comes to assessing these options and taking them forward.

 

I am at Workington show this coming weekend, which coincides with the Christmas lights switch-on on the Sunday. Invariably Sunday brings in many families on their way to the switch-on. I get a feeling that the "Great Model Railway Challenge" will add some extra spice to the visits of these families.

[GeoffAlan]

I had an O gauge clockwork train set as a nipper, at 5 I got a Hornby Dublo set, and after an adolescent lay off got back into Railway modelling via N gauge.  I'm now in my late 60s and still N gauge mad. I don't belong to a club but attend several exhibitions over the year. It seems to me that, like many years ago, the older modeller is more in evidence than the young ones, but their are several younger people represented in exhibition running.

 

I'm also a wargamer and, since I joined a club, 30 odd yrs ago, they too have been predicting the extinction of the hobby due to old age. 'Where are the new generation' they say. But strangely our club of 50 members is still seeing younger members joining up. I suspect the same is true in Model Railway clubs.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I am somewhat older than 30 (a good deal older to be honest), and have the same opinion about many younger (than me) people. (But not about children and youths - most the vast majority of whom are well behaved at shows.)

Mike,

 

recent experience shows that, even in your 70's, you get pushed about by other "old" people at shows. Generally, children at shows tend to be well behaved, probably because their parents are bringing them up to consider/respect others.

 

However, as I found this morning while having breakfast in a Premier Inn, some children are not at well disciplined. One in particular, named Oscar, rapidly became Orrible Oscar, despite the being admonished by his older sister repeatedly. He was not alone either, in running about and generally getting under people feet. My new ambition is to become an official "trip hazard" where such children are found.

[laurenceb]

I have come to the conclusion that a lot of older people trade their maners for their bus pass! I get round the problem of crouds at shows by helping behind a stand and venturing out when it is quiet

[Jol Wilkinson]

The situation is also not helped by show organisers who try to cram too much into too small a space. Scaleforum has been criticised for being too open - i.e.not enough layouts, etc. but is more comfortable than having layouts you can't view or aisles you can't get along without being jostled,

[Jongudmund]

A few thoughts on this

 

Lego and Games Workshop have been mentioned. There's a Lego train group on Facebook and the quality of work in there is sometimes breathtaking. Building a tilting train out of Lego isn't easy but it's been done. There's a chap building a railgun. Similarly the modelling detail by skilled Warhammer 40,000 painters would put many railway modellers to shame. There is modelling going on, just not the traditional railway modelling.

 

The demographics may be skewing older because the population is. If we are asking 'where are the young people in our hobby', well, where are the young people generally? Our society is getting older. It's not as extreme as Japan yet because the UK has benefitted from young people emigrating here.

 

Thirdly, the 'millennials' and young adults are often subject to insecure employment and housing. Many live in one rented room in a shared house, or still live at home. They don't have the space for a model railway even if they would like one.

 

Fourth, model railways are very old tech. Even DCC is a weird development of DC with the power coming through the track and needing to manually programme trains. As someone mentioned upthread, where are the chargeable radio control trains? (Apart from in Lego boxes)

 

Fifthly, I totally agree with the many comments about politeness and selling the hobby. There are some rude people in every hobby, not much we can do about that. There are also people who will instantly jump on any inconsistencies or slam a model for not being realistic because it's a scale six inches shorter than it should be, etc etc. That can be off putting if you get the wrong side of a know it all who talks to you in a condescending way. It really doesn't take much to put people off starting a time-consuming, expensive hobby!

[Jol Wilkinson]

Fifthly, I totally agree with the many comments about politeness and selling the hobby. There are some rude people in every hobby, not much we can do about that. There are also people who will instantly jump on any inconsistencies or slam a model for not being realistic because it's a scale six inches shorter than it should be, etc etc. That can be off putting if you get the wrong side of a know it all who talks to you in a condescending way. It really doesn't take much to put people off starting a time-consuming, expensive hobby!

 

There are also those who think they know a lot, but actually know very little. It doesn't stop them from trying to impress others by talking about what little they know. Sadly, the "empty vessel makes most noise" rule often applies and they get away with talking rubbish and misleading others.

 

As for expensive, it is only - as been discussed elsewhere - as costly as you want to make it or allow you to be seduced into making it.