Chivers LMS 6w Express Fish Vans - correct LMS livery?

[Tony Teague]

I have just built two of the Chivers LMS 6wheel express fish vans - and excellent models they are! - but I am struggling to find a picture of a prototype in LMS era livery.

 

Can anyone help me as to where exactly the numbers and letters go, and what they say, e.g. "LMS", or "FISH" ?

 

I model '38 - '48 so BR era livery is not what I need, but of course there are plenty of pictures of that!

 

The Chivers instructions state that the vans should be in crimson lake but not how they were lettered.

 

Any help appreciated!

 

Tony

[Wickham Green]

I have just built two of the Chivers LMS 6wheel express fish vans - and excellent models they are! - but I am struggling to find a picture of a prototype in LMS era livery.

 

Can anyone help me as to where exactly the numbers and letters go, and what they say, e.g. "LMS", or "FISH" ?

 

I model '38 - '48 so BR era livery is not what I need, but of course there are plenty of pictures of that!

 

The Chivers instructions state that the vans should be in crimson lake but not how they were lettered.

 

Any help appreciated!

 

Tony

You need 

Illustrated History of LMS Standard Coaching Stock, Volume 1

by David Jenkinson and Bob Essery. Published by the Oxford Publishing Company, in 1991. ISBN 0 86093 450 0

[Tony Teague]

Thanks Wickham Green.

 

I'll certainly think about it, but as I am a Southern modeller  - and these vans will just be on a 'visiting' train, I was hoping to avoid extending my library into LMS territory!

 

Tony

[brossard]

Tony these vans were built very late in the LMS era, around 1947 IIRC, unusual for this archaic wheel arrangement.  If they had LMS livery it was short lived.

 

John

[Wickham Green]

Tony these vans were built very late in the LMS era, around 1947 IIRC, unusual for this archaic wheel arrangement.  If they had LMS livery it was short lived.

 

John

Yep - AROUND 1947 ...... both before and after, it would seem : https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsfish

[Steamport Southport]

I seem to recall they are covered in the Historic Carriage Drawings NPCCS book by Peter Tatlow.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Historic-Carriage-Drawings-Vol-Non-Passenger/dp/1899816097

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Nick Holliday]

I seem to recall they are covered in the Historic Carriage Drawings NPCCS book by Peter Tatlow.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Historic-Carriage-Drawings-Vol-Non-Passenger/dp/1899816097

 

Jason

They certainly are, with a photo of one in LMS livery with X FISH on the doors.

Even for a Southern modeller, this book is great fun, as it covers all four grouping and most pre-grouping companies, and by their very nature NPCC stock could travel far and wide.

[Wickham Green]

They certainly are, with a photo of one in LMS livery with X FISH on the doors.

Even for a Southern modeller, this book is great fun, as it covers all four grouping and most pre-grouping companies, and by their very nature NPCC stock could travel far and wide.

I'd agree with that in general - but my Southern layout is still trying to come up with an excuse for one or two of these vans ( I've got far too many luverley 'big' vans as it is. ) ....... even invoking Rule 1, I've not come up with any justification for importing fish into Kent which is largely surrounded by its own fishing grounds !

 

My other attraction to these vans is that they were six-wheeled when - apart from locos and tenders - the Southern had eradicated such things from its fleet before Nationalisation ............. I'd disagree with 'A Bloke in Quebec', though, the other three 'grouped' Companies WERE still building six-wheelers for NPCS use into the fifties : Stove R, LMS milk or sausage vans, Thompson full brakes, posthumous GWR fish vans & cattle wagons ( etc.) .......... 'archaic' ? - not really, just practical for spreading the weight and giving a more stable ride. ( Having ridden in 'reconstructed' coaches on several preserved railways, I much prefer the KESR's GER one - on a Stove R chassis - to anything on a Southern 4-wheeled PMV underfame.)

[Dunsignalling]

Yep - AROUND 1947 ...... both before and after, it would seem : https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsfish

The six-wheelers in that link are all quoted with build dates of 1949. The earlier ones appear to be 4-wheelers of the type covered by the Parkside kit, with a generally similar body style but only one door per side. 

 

John

Edited November 15, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green]

The six-wheelers in that link are all quoted with build dates of 1949. The earlier ones appear to be 4-wheelers of the type covered by the Parkside kit, with a generally similar body style but only one door per side. 

 

John

Did you check out page two ? ...... Lot 1428, Wolverton 1946 ................................. and as Nick says there's "a photo of one in LMS livery" in Pater Tatlow's book ( and In Jenkinson & Essery ).

[Dunsignalling]

Did you check out page two ? ...... Lot 1428, Wolverton 1946 ................................. and as Nick says there's "a photo of one in LMS livery" in Pater Tatlow's book ( and In Jenkinson & Essery ).

Apologies. I didn't spot that there was a second page.....

 

I concur with your second point as I own both the volumes quoted.

 

John

[Tony Teague]

I seem to recall they are covered in the Historic Carriage Drawings NPCCS book by Peter Tatlow.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Historic-Carriage-Drawings-Vol-Non-Passenger/dp/1899816097

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Jason

You are right - and I have the book, I just hadn't thought that they might be in it!

Now all I need is the transfers - will have to look at what is on the HMRS sheet.

 

Best wishes

Tony

They certainly are, with a photo of one in LMS livery with X FISH on the doors.

Even for a Southern modeller, this book is great fun, as it covers all four grouping and most pre-grouping companies, and by their very nature NPCC stock could travel far and wide.

 

Quite agree - a good book that I just hadn't considered when posing my question.

[Tony Teague]

I'd agree with that in general - but my Southern layout is still trying to come up with an excuse for one or two of these vans ( I've got far too many luverley 'big' vans as it is. ) ....... even invoking Rule 1, I've not come up with any justification for importing fish into Kent which is largely surrounded by its own fishing grounds !

 

My other attraction to these vans is that they were six-wheeled when - apart from locos and tenders - the Southern had eradicated such things from its fleet before Nationalisation ............. I'd disagree with 'A Bloke in Quebec', though, the other three 'grouped' Companies WERE still building six-wheelers for NPCS use into the fifties : Stove R, LMS milk or sausage vans, Thompson full brakes, posthumous GWR fish vans & cattle wagons ( etc.) .......... 'archaic' ? - not really, just practical for spreading the weight and giving a more stable ride. ( Having ridden in 'reconstructed' coaches on several preserved railways, I much prefer the KESR's GER one - on a Stove R chassis - to anything on a Southern 4-wheeled PMV underfame.)

 

Fortunately for me the SR is wider than Kent, and I'm still a bit uncertain as to exactly where Churminster & Stowe Magna were located, so I think I can find a reason. As you say - these are very attractive vans.

 

Tony