Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[Northern Electric]

The IC Executive livery application looks good to me.

I always thought the original application with the 2/3 height yellow front and wrap around grey looked the best, so I'm quite pleased thats the one they went for.

Personally RES would be my first choice, but the decorated sample I've seen so far shows the roof section in the wrong colour...hopefully that will be corrected before they hit the shops! (?) I hate having to repaint new models to correct silly livery errors!

 

One thing I'd love to see Heljan offer is 86401 in its NSE livery.  I know that one was a bit of a Marmite loco that split opionion but I always liked it just for how much it stood out.

Not sure about the pantograph though. I will reserve judgement for when I can see it in the raised position.   I seem to recall some complaints about the Bachmann 90 pan, the lower linkage being unrealistic etc.  Looks like this one will be the same deal though I suppose you could remove it if it bothers you.   It's just a pity the cab gutters were never corrected for the new tooling, but we've already covered that.  Nice model overall though and a vast improvement on their old 86/2. 

There's plenty more liveries left for Heljan to exploit within the 86/4/6 subclasses too:  Mainline version of Intercity, NSE as already mentioned, early parcels sector red/grey, EWS, Freightliner triple grey etc.  And then of course all the many 86/2/5/7 versions!  A very colourful and interesting fleet when you think about it!

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, Johnson Street IEMD said:

I have decided that I will be having the Cally sleeper liveried class 86, 86401, as per WCRC ownership.

Dont forget 86101 was sleeper blue too..

I’m wondering how much down the road of robbing a class 87 to make an 86101 is possible ? .. its mostly beneath the body isnt it ?

 

[ThaneofFife]

good also to see that the buffer internal shanks are silver to mimic the real ones where they remains shiny through compression.  dont think the early versions of the 86 had this they were black and painting them silver risked them being stuck.

[97406]

13 hours ago, Northern Electric said:

One thing I'd love to see Heljan offer is 86401 in its NSE livery.  I know that one was a bit of a Marmite loco that split opionion but I always liked it just for how much it stood out.

 

I struggled with the original NSE livery at the time, but the 86 was an exception to this, as it suited the square lines of the loco. I would love to see this one, too.

[61661]

On 12/11/2021 at 23:31, Craig1989 said:

Can’t wait for these as I have 5 on order 4 freightliner and one sleeper one hopefully if another run  is done hopefully they do the lsl one

 

Cheers Craig 

Thanks for your support. Glad you are pleased with the 86s. Unless I'm mistaken, LSL only has one Class 86 and it's an 86/1, which we can't do because it has Class 87 bogies. 

[61661]

On 13/11/2021 at 22:01, Northern Electric said:

Personally RES would be my first choice, but the decorated sample I've seen so far shows the roof section in the wrong colour...hopefully that will be corrected before they hit the shops! (?) I hate having to repaint new models to correct silly livery errors!

 

One thing I'd love to see Heljan offer is 86401 in its NSE livery. 

The roof of the Res 86/4 has been corrected in response to the feedback received after we showed the first deco sample. 

 

Assuming there's demand for a second run of 86/4s, NSE 86401 is top of the list. Lots of liveries on these locos and we couldn't cover them all in one batch. Also, we wanted to include 86401 in Caley Sleeper livery and doing the same loco twice in the same batch might have caused a few comments. 

[wombatofludham]

On 14/11/2021 at 00:54, adb968008 said:

Dont forget 86101 was sleeper blue too..

I’m wondering how much down the road of robbing a class 87 to make an 86101 is possible ? .. its mostly beneath the body isnt it ?

 

I bought a s/h Intercity liveried original Heljan 86/2 which someone had renumbered and renamed Sir Wiiliam Stanier, but which had the original bogies.  I swapped the chassis for a Hornby rerun Class 87 chassis, which apart from some careful Dremel work to adapt it to fit the Heljan 86 body (mainly at the cab ends) can be done relatively easily.  It also gave me a spare Heljan chassis to replace one I had manage to break, so well worth the sacrifice of an 87 (which has also given me a spare cross-arm pan for future re-use!)

[proton]

6 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I bought a s/h Intercity liveried original Heljan 86/2 which someone had renumbered and renamed Sir Wiiliam Stanier, but which had the original bogies.  I swapped the chassis for a Hornby rerun Class 87 chassis, which apart from some careful Dremel work to adapt it to fit the Heljan 86 body (mainly at the cab ends) can be done relatively easily.  It also gave me a spare Heljan chassis to replace one I had manage to break, so well worth the sacrifice of an 87 (which has also given me a spare cross-arm pan for future re-use!)

Would you be able to elaborate on the dremel work and any other difficulties?  I was thinking of using an old Hornby class 86 from the 1980s but it is too thick and will need major surgery to the class 87 chassis.  Thanks!

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I bought a s/h Intercity liveried original Heljan 86/2 which someone had renumbered and renamed Sir Wiiliam Stanier, but which had the original bogies.  I swapped the chassis for a Hornby rerun Class 87 chassis, which apart from some careful Dremel work to adapt it to fit the Heljan 86 body (mainly at the cab ends) can be done relatively easily.  It also gave me a spare Heljan chassis to replace one I had manage to break, so well worth the sacrifice of an 87 (which has also given me a spare cross-arm pan for future re-use!)

Sounds encouraging, Ive done similar to put a Trix 81 onto a Bachmann class 85 chassis.

 

Though did you move across the underframe pieces also ?

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by adb968008

[Patriot87003]

4 hours ago, 61661 said:

Assuming there's demand for a second run of 86/4s, NSE 86401 is top of the list. Lots of liveries on these locos and we couldn't cover them all in one batch. Also, we wanted to include 86401 in Caley Sleeper livery and doing the same loco twice in the same batch might have caused a few comments. 

A vote from me for 86401 in NSE livery in a future batch … a couple of pics to help! 

 

 

 

Hope the next batch are good sellers for you and look forward to receiving the 5 that I’ve pre-ordered … am currently  in saving mode ready for them!

[wombatofludham]

5 hours ago, proton said:

Would you be able to elaborate on the dremel work and any other difficulties?  I was thinking of using an old Hornby class 86 from the 1980s but it is too thick and will need major surgery to the class 87 chassis.  Thanks!

The Hornby chassis has a slightly longer Mazak underframe than the Heljan one, so I literally had to shave about 1mm off each end,  I don't think I had to do any other adaptations.  The Heljan body is a snug fit, and of course you do lose the lights (I daresay I could have wired up the Heljan lights to the Hornby feeds but I couldn't be fussed) but as a bodge I was pleasantly surprised.

I didn't bother with the underframe details, for me the important thing was getting the bogies right but given how easy the Heljan parts separate from the underframe, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult.

I'm actually rebuilding my layout for the second time in two years so if I get the chance tomorrow I'll extract the 86/1 and take some photos, I'll try and remove the body so you can see where I "nibbled" away at the chassis.

The old Hornby 86 body has some odd strengthening bars halfway down the inside which have to be removed to fit onto the more recent Freighliner "Wavy Mucus" DCC ready chassis.  I have two 86/2s which had been nicely detailed and were in 1974-5 livery and headcodes so as I am DCC I thought I'd use the latest DCC chassis to upgrade their running, only to find the trusty Dremel was needed to fit them.  I've also used the same DCC equipped chassis to upgrade two DC Kits 81s to full DCC, again minimal hacking is needed.  Trouble is getting my hands on a "Wavy Mucus" Hornby 86 is getting more difficult and prices seem to be escalating.  Probably people like me using the chassis for other purposes.

PS If anyone wants any Hornby Freightliner 86 bodies they can have mine...

[proton]

3 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

The Hornby chassis has a slightly longer Mazak underframe than the Heljan one, so I literally had to shave about 1mm off each end,  I don't think I had to do any other adaptations.  The Heljan body is a snug fit, and of course you do lose the lights (I daresay I could have wired up the Heljan lights to the Hornby feeds but I couldn't be fussed) but as a bodge I was pleasantly surprised.

I didn't bother with the underframe details, for me the important thing was getting the bogies right but given how easy the Heljan parts separate from the underframe, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult.

I'm actually rebuilding my layout for the second time in two years so if I get the chance tomorrow I'll extract the 86/1 and take some photos, I'll try and remove the body so you can see where I "nibbled" away at the chassis.

The old Hornby 86 body has some odd strengthening bars halfway down the inside which have to be removed to fit onto the more recent Freighliner "Wavy Mucus" DCC ready chassis.  I have two 86/2s which had been nicely detailed and were in 1974-5 livery and headcodes so as I am DCC I thought I'd use the latest DCC chassis to upgrade their running, only to find the trusty Dremel was needed to fit them.  I've also used the same DCC equipped chassis to upgrade two DC Kits 81s to full DCC, again minimal hacking is needed.  Trouble is getting my hands on a "Wavy Mucus" Hornby 86 is getting more difficult and prices seem to be escalating.  Probably people like me using the chassis for other purposes.

PS If anyone wants any Hornby Freightliner 86 bodies they can have mine...

Thanks for that W, I'll go ahead and see about getting another Heljan class 86.

 

John

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi Ben,

 

It’s good to see the progress with the 86. I’ve a pair of Freightliner cans on order and with Arran doing the FSA/FTA flats in the future they will have a nice trainload to pull. With Newlands Park set late 80’s/early 90’s the earlier liveries are a bit tempting as would 401 in NSE if you do it. 
 

Les Ross/Peter Pan would of course be my preferred choice to run with the WCRC stock.

 

All the best

Mark

[Northern Electric]

On 15/11/2021 at 11:16, 61661 said:

The roof of the Res 86/4 has been corrected in response to the feedback received after we showed the first deco sample. 

 

Assuming there's demand for a second run of 86/4s, NSE 86401 is top of the list. Lots of liveries on these locos and we couldn't cover them all in one batch. Also, we wanted to include 86401 in Caley Sleeper livery and doing the same loco twice in the same batch might have caused a few comments. 

 

Marvellous!    I will definitely be in the market for a RES example    I was just wondering which type of pantograph the RES example will come with?

From what I remember, the 86/4s seemed to be about half AMBR type as built and half Brecknell Willis type. Ditto the 86/6s. Hard to recall which locos carried which without referring to old photos taken at the time.

[Northern Electric]

23 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

A vote from me for 86401 in NSE livery in a future batch … a couple of pics to help! 

 

 

 

Hope the next batch are good sellers for you and look forward to receiving the 5 that I’ve pre-ordered … am currently  in saving mode ready for them!

 

I might be imagining it but, I could swear the shade of blue used on the retro repaint seen here is different to the original (1986) version applied..

[Northern Electric]

A couple of shots of 86401 taken in 1990/91.    I know lighting can make a difference, as can film quality but the blue definitely look quite different to those later pics.

 

 

[Patriot87003]

13 minutes ago, Northern Electric said:

A couple of shots of 86401 taken in 1990/91.    I know lighting can make a difference, as can film quality but the blue definitely look quite different to those later pics.

 

 

Agree … The original blue of NSE livery soon faded … hence NSE chose the revised blue that was slightly darker a few years later (for other loco’s and units).

 

The pics I took and posted show 86401 in relatively new/clean condition at it’s naming at Crewe open day, then a following event at Long Marston.

 

Even the preserved version soon faded … this pic from Flickr shows 86401 just before it’s sale and repainting into Caley sleeper livery.

 

I don’t envy Ben/Heljan deciding which shade to choose (clean original or weathered!) Perhaps like the shade in your pics … not too clean/new, not too weathered/faded …

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Patriot87003
Clarification of revised NSE

[andyman7]

23 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

The old Hornby 86 body has some odd strengthening bars halfway down the inside which have to be removed to fit onto the more recent Freighliner "Wavy Mucus" DCC ready chassis.  I have two 86/2s which had been nicely detailed and were in 1974-5 livery and headcodes so as I am DCC I thought I'd use the latest DCC chassis to upgrade their running, only to find the trusty Dremel was needed to fit them.  I've also used the same DCC equipped chassis to upgrade two DC Kits 81s to full DCC, again minimal hacking is needed.  Trouble is getting my hands on a "Wavy Mucus" Hornby 86 is getting more difficult and prices seem to be escalating.  Probably people like me using the chassis for other purposes.

PS If anyone wants any Hornby Freightliner 86 bodies they can have mine...

Those 'strengthening bars' are what holds the weight in place on the old Ringfield Class 86 chassis. The later DCC-ready Freightliner Hornby 86 is nowadays rare as hen's teeth, no doubt due to everyone wanting the chassis for an upgrade. It's a bit like all those 'bargain' Railroad locos on old Lima chassis because someone has only bought it to nick the chassis. 

[Northern Electric]

They all faded yes, but I was thinking more in terms of the actual shade of the preserved NSE repaint being in the later (incorrect?) shade compared to what it originally wore.. (it wouldn't be the first time the wrong shade of blue has been applied to 86s, but lets not go there!  )

This photo of the two class 50s side by side demonstrates the different shades of blue for original NSE vs revised NSE very well.  

If you search there are also photos showing a mismatch in blue between the loco and coaches depending on which version each happenned to be in at that time.  But since 401 was so seldom seen hauling anything in NSE livery (it seemed to spend more time on parcels and freight going by photo I've seen!) opportunities for a direct shade comparison were scarce unlike with the class 50s.

 

 

[wombatofludham]

21 hours ago, proton said:

Thanks for that W, I'll go ahead and see about getting another Heljan class 86.

 

John

After wrestling with the concrete like ballast and cork on the layout rebuild, I dug out the 86 and a half and took some photos.

I actually only nibbled away a small section of one end in order to allow the body to sit onto the buffer beams, less work than I imagined.  The Heljan body is a snug interference fit over the Hornby chassis but the Hornby 87 has two slightly curved Mazak "shelves", one at each end, which are fractionally too long for the Heljan body, hence the need to just file or Dremel away enough Mazak to allow the Heljan body to sit correctly.  Hoefully these photos will show what I mean

The unmodified end.  Note the slightly curved "ledge" above the buffer beam.  This is just enough to stop the Heljan body from meeting the buffer beam

 

The modified end.  Not neat or tidy!  It just needs a slight amount filing off to square it up, which allows the body to be pushed down onto the chassis, and be in line with the buffer beam.  Incredibly simple and any bodging will be hidden by the Heljan body.  Really I should have shaved a small amount off the other end but once the body fitted I didn't bother, I don't like making work for myself.

And that's it.  As you can see from the Hunt coupling, this will be on one end of a Mk2 push pull rake so the lack of lighting won't really be an issue for me as the way the layout is orientated the DVT will be the most visible part of the train lighting wise, but if you are up to it, the wiring looms on the Hornby chassis can be seen feeding the lighting so should be easy to adapt to fit the Heljan lighting if desired.

[proton]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

After wrestling with the concrete like ballast and cork on the layout rebuild, I dug out the 86 and a half and took some photos.

I actually only nibbled away a small section of one end in order to allow the body to sit onto the buffer beams, less work than I imagined.  The Heljan body is a snug interference fit over the Hornby chassis but the Hornby 87 has two slightly curved Mazak "shelves", one at each end, which are fractionally too long for the Heljan body, hence the need to just file or Dremel away enough Mazak to allow the Heljan body to sit correctly.  Hoefully these photos will show what I mean

The unmodified end.  Note the slightly curved "ledge" above the buffer beam.  This is just enough to stop the Heljan body from meeting the buffer beam

 

The modified end.  Not neat or tidy!  It just needs a slight amount filing off to square it up, which allows the body to be pushed down onto the chassis, and be in line with the buffer beam.  Incredibly simple and any bodging will be hidden by the Heljan body.  Really I should have shaved a small amount off the other end but once the body fitted I didn't bother, I don't like making work for myself.

And that's it.  As you can see from the Hunt coupling, this will be on one end of a Mk2 push pull rake so the lack of lighting won't really be an issue for me as the way the layout is orientated the DVT will be the most visible part of the train lighting wise, but if you are up to it, the wiring looms on the Hornby chassis can be seen feeding the lighting so should be easy to adapt to fit the Heljan lighting if desired.

That's interesting, W, thank you.  I have just realized that you are fitting the original Heljan Class 86 body.  I haven't kept up with the thread on that version - except for the pan is the body itself good?

[dmu 156]

The pan does look much better than their previous efforts although it looks like its plastic. That said, at least it looks as though its sprung rather than posable which is much better for running against a contact wire.

[wombatofludham]

14 hours ago, proton said:

That's interesting, W, thank you.  I have just realized that you are fitting the original Heljan Class 86 body.  I haven't kept up with the thread on that version - except for the pan is the body itself good?

For me it looks like an 86.  The ex National Grid pantograph is the most glaring problem, followed by the lack of a recess along the top of the area where the grilles are located, which seems more noticeable on certain liveries than others.  There was some debate about the angle of the cab front windows when released but personally I don't really notice it.  It was a "Marmite" model when released and the criticisms probably stopped any further releases of it, but I have in total 9 of the models, and they have more than held their value on Tatbay with some liveries being rarer than hen's teeth to find, which I would suggest probably means many like the model.  That said, without the criticism, it could be said we wouldn't have the new AL6 model with improvements.

Having such a large fleet of 86 v1.0 models won't stop me buying more 86/2s when Heljan get round to doing them as part of the 86 v2.0 releases sometime in the future. You can never have enough "cans".

[proton]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

For me it looks like an 86.  The ex National Grid pantograph is the most glaring problem, followed by the lack of a recess along the top of the area where the grilles are located, which seems more noticeable on certain liveries than others.  There was some debate about the angle of the cab front windows when released but personally I don't really notice it.  It was a "Marmite" model when released and the criticisms probably stopped any further releases of it, but I have in total 9 of the models, and they have more than held their value on Tatbay with some liveries being rarer than hen's teeth to find, which I would suggest probably means many like the model.  That said, without the criticism, it could be said we wouldn't have the new AL6 model with improvements.

Having such a large fleet of 86 v1.0 models won't stop me buying more 86/2s when Heljan get round to doing them as part of the 86 v2.0 releases sometime in the future. You can never have enough "cans".

That's good to know, thank you.

 

[61661]

On 16/11/2021 at 15:09, Northern Electric said:

 

Marvellous!    I will definitely be in the market for a RES example    I was just wondering which type of pantograph the RES example will come with?

From what I remember, the 86/4s seemed to be about half AMBR type as built and half Brecknell Willis type. Ditto the 86/6s. Hard to recall which locos carried which without referring to old photos taken at the time.

Pantograph is the Faiveley type, as shown on the sample with the incorrect roof colour. Don't recall seeing any photos of Parcels/Res 86/4s with the BW high-speed type, but I haven't done an exhaustive survey. In this batch of 86/4s only IC Exec 86404 and Caley Sleeper 86401 have the BW type. All the others are Faiveley.