Surrey Hills

[Tomsontour]

Evening all

 

Okay so i'm planning a new layout, an N gauge look into the Surrey Hills, from the 50's through to the 60's. The Graham Farish N class was the first toe in the water and completely blew me away on just how far N gauge has come in recent years, now the collection has grown considerably this year, more of this when i start a layout topic. But as you will see from the layout it is a very basic loop, the idea to hopefully one day take it on the road. Anyways please see below for a first draft plan on the layout.

 

Surrey Hills plan 1 track by Matt Toms, on Flickr

 

 

Now im hoping the curves will be kind enough to run the locos with all the detail parts on the locos? the fiddle yard maybe a tad extreme but as mentioned I hope to take this on the road at somepoint. I'm unsure if to add maybe a station on the middle board, what do you reckon?

 

Any feedback would be awesome

 

All the best

Matt

[mdvle]

Start with providing the basics.

 

What are:

• the dimensions of your layout design
• dimensions of the room it will be in
• is the room dedicated to the layout, or does the layout need to "disappear" at times
• what do you want from the layout (just run trains in circles, follow a timetable, operational interest, etc)?

[Tomsontour]

Many thanks for replying mate, 

 

Dimentions of the layout are 12 feet by four feet, on 4 feet by 2 feet boards

The layout will have to go away when not in use, as to what i want from the layout, mainly to run trains and get a feel of what the Reading to Redhill was like out in the Surrey Hills, so mainly focused on the scenery for this one, its a model railway and running some sort of timetable i guess could be interesting, but on the whole its to have somewhere to showcase just what you can achieve in N gauge, and give the locos a good run out on the sort of stock seen in the Surrey Hills (although already have a king on order from DJM, and have a Farish Merchant Navy, rule one )

 

All the best

Matt

[imt]

Comments:

 

1) you will need access all round when running so you can get to that fiddle yard.

 

2) when you say "go away" do you mean remove all the stock, or is there some way you intend to keep the fiddle yard flat and fold the rest of the layout over it?  Lots of stock to put n boxes?  Lots of stock to put out every time you want to use it? 30 mins to set up 30 mins to strike - how long to play operate your layout?

 

3) aren't those fiddle yard line quite close together?  Where do your fingers go when setting up/taking down?  Maybe widen out a bit........

[Tomsontour]

Hi imt,

 

Yes the layout will mainly be put back down when not in use, sadly I don't have the space to keep it up at all times. This is the idea behind taking out on the road one day. And it's a first draft in scarm, there is room for stock to move between them, have had it full scale on the laptop and placed a few items on there

[DCB]

Looks like a scaled down large 00 layout which no longer has enough room for an operating well.  My 00 layout has provision for trains to leave the hidden sidings and circulate either clockwise or anticlockwise and return which makes realistic running much easier.

[Oldddudders]

I am not able to offer much experience of N Gauge operations, but do fear that just running trains along a scenic section will pall. And that deluxe fiddle yard will seem out of proportion to the simplicity of the visible layout.

 

You do not say which bit of Surrey you hope to portray, but would a little operational interest be added by a level crossing, of which there are several in the Reigate - Guildford stretch, or even a siding related to the chalk pits in the Betchworth - Deepdene run?

[njee20]

I must agree with Ian, unless you have no actual interest in operating, and genuinely just want to build the layout and watch trains run by (which is fine - Ring Road was a stunning N gauge layout, with absolutely no visible pointwork) I fear you'll tire of that plan very quickly.

 

If you want to build a real location, for added challenge, then Chilworth and Betchworth smack in the middle of the Surrey Hills have level crossings directly adjacent to the station, again to make it a bit more interesting. Gomshall is on an overbridge over the A25 too, which could be neat. A little industry trackside with a couple of sidings would seem to help the potential.

 

You've got a great space, particularly in N, and whilst avoiding filling the board with track is laudable I'd aim for a middle ground myself.

[Oldddudders]

I have to admit that my first locospotting Ian Allan ABC got a few black grease marks from where I “helped” the signalman open the gates at Betchworth......

[Tomsontour]

Surrey Hills plan 1 track with station by Matt Toms, on Flickr

 

Firstly gents thank you very much for your replies

 

Okay taking on board a few of the comments I have now added a station in, being the surrey hills the average passenger services were around 4-5 coaches so the station its self doesn't need to be huge. I haven't done this to scale yet just added to get a feel on how it will be added into the layout. 

 

Scene one.

A little bit of background, although there is no actual viaducts on the Reading to Redhill line, my uncle who was also planning a N gauge layout, who sadly lost his battle to cancer a few months back, he always wanted a standout viaduct scene on his layout, and as he left all his model railway stuff to me I want to include this somewhere on my layout. Again very much rule one, but just be a nice touch to the layout he never got round to building. The idea here is to have a viaduct on the curve with a river running underneath, with maybe a pub or something on the banks called Malcolm's Inn or something like that, just a heavy nod to the man that got me interested in railways and had a huge part to play in my life. But should allow some nice scenery around this area

 

Station area I've included two sidings with a cross over for stuff to be able to get from the up line across. A small good shed or local sidings could possibly go in here? a level crossing has been added at the far end. You'll see the road carries across the whole scene linking the two scenic breaks, with various buildings, possibly a farm with stables somewhere in the scene, keeping the rural surrey hills theme going on. I think the key for me is having a train running through the scenery, which is very much achievable with N gauge. Scenery is my main interest with model railways and something I really want to go to town with with this layout

 

The fiddle yard, this will no doubt change, but with four roads on the up and down I should be able to hold some good sixed rakes in there.

 

Once again thank you gents for the feedback

 

Best wishes Matt

[Harlequin]

Hi Matt,

 

I like the balance of railway to non-railway in the scenic area. You probably wouldn't want to add much more trackwork but you might need to do a little bit more to make the "on stage" operations more interesting.

 

You've got a facing crossover in the scenic area but none in the fiddle yard. The crossover on scene should be trailing for best practice / realism. But facing crossovers are very useful in the fiddle yard to allow down traffic to become up traffic and vice-versa.

 

Technically, you need a trap point before the goods yard lines join the main line at the very least, but a lot of people wouldn't notice if you left it out - only us lot on this forum! ;-) A headshunt would serve the same purpose (protecting the main line from accidental goods movements) and would increment the operational interest a notch.

 

If you plan to run steam  locos and you don't want to handle them too much in the fiddle yard (usually recommended) then you need to provide some way of turning them. That could be done very simply using a loco lift on one of the spurs that you already show but there are other options.

 

If you pushed the station to one side or other other (e.g. see the Upton Hanbury thread in this subforum) then you would have a longer purely scenic run, possibly containing your proposed viaduct.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Harlequin

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think the original plan was OK with the idea of adding a station at a later date.

 

There are some lovely stations along that route, and quite compact for modelling. Dorking Town is perhaps the best of them.

 

A central operating well would be much better than a 4' wide board. With slightly less extravagant curves on the visible part of the layout, you should be able to keep to quite a narrow board for the scenicked bits. This has the advantage of making the layout look longer (and 4' x 1' boards will be so much easier to handle when dismantling the layout).

[Zomboid]

You don't necessarily need a station. I'd have something to add operation, but for me a freight facility would be more fun, and you wouldn't have to accommodate the platforms.

 

Not sure if such a thing was found on the north downs line, but certainly around the south of England there were/ are a few

[Joseph_Pestell]

Is 12' length the maximum possible in the location where the layout will be put up?

 

With only a double track, perfectly possible in N to have a "roundy-roundy" on a baseboard only 2' wide (or two 1' wide boards side by side). 16' x 2' could give a much better representation of this line than 12' x 4'.

 

Greater length also gives some more possibilities for arranging the hidden sidings better.

[Tomsontour]

Surrey Hills plan 1 track with station minus fiddle yard BACKUP by Matt Toms, on Flickr

 

Afternoon All, 

 

Now added a head shunt for the sidings, with the cross over would it be better the other way around? and a bit more greenery. Taken away the fiddle yard for now, but what do we think?

 

As to the baseboard sizes, I could add another 4 by 2 board on each side to increase the length to 16 by 4, but I don't want to run before I can walk, but I cant see why this cannot be added at a later date. the reason I have gone for the larger radius curves, simply as I wish to add the steps and details to the locos and I love the idea of having flowing curves, something id never be able to do in OO. 

 

Looking at Dorking Town it looks a very modellable (is that even a word?) station, will certainly do some more research into this one

 

Thanks again all

Matt

[Joseph_Pestell]

Surrey Hills plan 1 track with station minus fiddle yard BACKUP by Matt Toms, on Flickr

 

Afternoon All, 

 

Now added a head shunt for the sidings, with the cross over would it be better the other way around? and a bit more greenery. Taken away the fiddle yard for now, but what do we think?

 

As to the baseboard sizes, I could add another 4 by 2 board on each side to increase the length to 16 by 4, but I don't want to run before I can walk, but I cant see why this cannot be added at a later date. the reason I have gone for the larger radius curves, simply as I wish to add the steps and details to the locos and I love the idea of having flowing curves, something id never be able to do in OO. 

 

Looking at Dorking Town it looks a very modellable (is that even a word?) station, will certainly do some more research into this one

 

Thanks again all

Matt

 

Yes, the crossover should definitely be the other way round (trailing rather than facing).

 

For maximum flexibility in operating your goods trains, you need a second crossover but that was by no means always present at small stations. Often, regular goods traffic would only run in one direction to the next convenient marshalling yard.

 

Your platforms look rather long - enough for 8 carriages in N. The North Downs route has rather short platforms.

 

Edit to add: I have looked at the 1935 OS map for Dorking many times (www.old-maps.co.uk). But so focussed on the station that I have never noticed that the adjoining timber yard also has an extensive rail system. With the width of scenic area you are proposing, you could model that as well.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[Tomsontour]

Yes, the crossover should definitely be the other way round (trailing rather than facing).

 

For maximum flexibility in operating your goods trains, you need a second crossover but that was by no means always present at small stations. Often, regular goods traffic would only run in one direction to the next convenient marshalling yard.

 

Your platforms look rather long - enough for 8 carriages in N. The North Downs route has rather short platforms.

 

Edit to add: I have looked at the 1935 OS map for Dorking many times (www.old-maps.co.uk). But so focussed on the station that I have never noticed that the adjoining timber yard also has an extensive rail system. With the width of scenic area you are proposing, you could model that as well.

 

So could In theory lose the cross over all together?

 

Yeah the platforms need to be shortened they were just placed to give an idea of how it would look with a station present. Timber yard could be interesting to consider

 

Many thanks again 

Matt

[woodenhead]

To get the feel for what you want I would pick a real station in the area and then remove the bits that you don't want to come up with a plan that suits the line.

[Joseph_Pestell]

So could In theory lose the cross over all together?

 

Yeah the platforms need to be shortened they were just placed to give an idea of how it would look with a station present. Timber yard could be interesting to consider

 

Many thanks again 

Matt

 

You could. But it would look odd on a steam-era model not to have it.

 

One of the nice things about Dorking is that it has three locations to shunt wagons to: the main goods yard west of the Down platform (from both directions via a single slip), an end loading bay east of the Down platform, and a siding west of the Up platform. It's a layout very typical of the South Eastern Rly and really helps to set the location of the model.

[DCB]

Looks good, better than the one further down.   The facing crossover is essentially useless so I woud use a pair of trailing crossovers which was a common feature of many ststions on many different railways.  I would straighten the visible sidings and forget the kick back. Its usually only a wagon or two long on he full size and a "Headshunt" has become something of a cliche on models whereas on the full size the shunting would have been done using the main line.

 

 

Firstly gents thank you very much for your replies

 

Okay taking on board a few of the comments I have now added a station in, being the surrey hills the average passenger services were around 4-5 coaches so the station its self doesn't need to be huge. I haven't done this to scale yet just added to get a feel on how it will be added into the layout. 

 

Scene one.

A little bit of background, although there is no actual viaducts on the Reading to Redhill line, my uncle who was also planning a N gauge layout, who sadly lost his battle to cancer a few months back, he always wanted a standout viaduct scene on his layout, and as he left all his model railway stuff to me I want to include this somewhere on my layout. Again very much rule one, but just be a nice touch to the layout he never got round to building. The idea here is to have a viaduct on the curve with a river running underneath, with maybe a pub or something on the banks called Malcolm's Inn or something like that, just a heavy nod to the man that got me interested in railways and had a huge part to play in my life. But should allow some nice scenery around this area

 

Station area I've included two sidings with a cross over for stuff to be able to get from the up line across. A small good shed or local sidings could possibly go in here? a level crossing has been added at the far end. You'll see the road carries across the whole scene linking the two scenic breaks, with various buildings, possibly a farm with stables somewhere in the scene, keeping the rural surrey hills theme going on. I think the key for me is having a train running through the scenery, which is very much achievable with N gauge. Scenery is my main interest with model railways and something I really want to go to town with with this layout

 

The fiddle yard, this will no doubt change, but with four roads on the up and down I should be able to hold some good sixed rakes in there.

 

Once again thank you gents for the feedback

 

Best wishes Matt

I would re jig the fiddle yard maybe with a couple of double slips so that the up and down  trains can use the other sidings to allow reversing.   

Edited November 30, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Oldddudders]

Staggered platforms do increase overall station length. OTOH, your “stables and fields” in just that location do fit very well with Dorking Riding School, proprietor Miss Rachel B. Fardon, which was pretty much in that spot. I think Sergeants might have been the building firm with sidings on the Up side.

 

As far as the viaduct is concerned, there is a multi-arched bridge immediately to the east of Deepdene station. It crosses the former LBSCR line to Horsham, as well as a footpath leading out of Deepdene Vale. Whether you would call it a viaduct is down to you. And I think that where the line crosses the River Mole near Pixham, not much further east, the bridge is also multi-arch.

[Tomsontour]

Surrey Hills plan 1 track with station minus fiddle yard BACKUP by Matt Toms, on Flickr

 

Have added in the crossovers.... have also added in a siding for the horse boxes to maybe go and then be collected on a service? with Ascot not being far maybe this could add some addition interest? Maybe Miss Fardon had some race winners in the stable lol. As for the viaduct I will certainly try and hunt it out, being localish I wont hurt to make a visit. Possible traffic for the two sidings could be a timber store, which can be found further down the lane outside the yard?

 

Thanks again for all your input, helping massively

 

Matt

[Harlequin]

Dorking (West) Station c. 1935:

[Click to enlarge]

• Two trailing crossovers, as suggested above.
• Loop on the main goods yard (south) side, which could be described as a headshunt.
• Two T-form sidings, one on each side of the main lines accessed by trailing points, the south one setup for end-loading by the look of it.

I suggest the trailing T-form sidings would be a good pattern for horse box sidings. (You should avoid facing points in main lines wherever possible.)

Edited November 30, 2018 by Harlequin

[Guest Jack Benson]

Hi,

 

I am trying to find an image of the trackplan at Gomshall and Shere

 

Thank you

[Oldddudders]

Middleton Press, Guildford to Redhill, pp45/6 has a 1934 map.