Frog Wiring on crossover with DCC Concepts “Cobalt SS”

[marco demarco]

I’m just fitting a couple of Cobalt SS point switches onto my layout to control a simple crossover junction and have been stumped on how to wire the frogs.

 

The motors are tested and switch the points well in their respective directions, but now I need to wire up the frogs and can’t think how this is going to work with just the one polarity switch on the controller. With one set of points the frog, when wired up correctly, will switch polarity, but two points from the same connection? I can’t wire two opposing frogs into the same frog switch on the controller, can I!

 

Am I missing something?

 

Any and all help very much appreciated. As always!

marco

[Vecchio]

Last Model Rail had an article showing diagrams how to wire different points. Quite useful. As you use dcc you could also consider an automatic frog polarity switch like for instance from Gaugemaster. Works very well. Have a double slip using it.

Happy wireing

Vecchio

[marco demarco]

Last Model Rail had an article showing diagrams how to wire different points. Quite useful. As you use dcc you could also consider an automatic frog polarity switch like for instance from Gaugemaster. Works very well. Have a double slip using it.

Happy wireing

Vecchio

[Nigelcliffe]

I’m just fitting a couple of Cobalt SS point switches onto my layout to control a simple crossover junction and have been stumped on how to wire the frogs.

 

The motors are tested and switch the points well in their respective directions, but now I need to wire up the frogs and can’t think how this is going to work with just the one polarity switch on the controller. With one set of points the frog, when wired up correctly, will switch polarity, but two points from the same connection? I can’t wire two opposing frogs into the same frog switch on the controller, can I!

 

Am I missing something?

 

Any and all help very much appreciated. As always!

marco

 

The Cobalt SS control module is in two halves, each independent of each other.  In either half, there are: two change-over switches,  LED output, switch input.  

Each side of the Cobalt SS can control two turnout motors with the appropriate splitter cables.  

 

The Cobalt manual confusingly labels the two change over switches (6 and 7 in the manual) differently, but they are the same.  So, connect one switch (eg. 6) to one frog, and the other switch (7) to the second frog swapping the input wires left-to-right.       

 

( Its not the first time a DCC Concepts user manual fails to explain their products clearly....  )

 

- Nigel

[marco demarco]

Thanks for your reply Vecchio.

 

I have other junctions and crossovers wired up using the Seep PM1 motors with built in polarity switches and they work well [considering], but this is the first time I’m using the Cobalt SSs. The supplied “controller” has one frog polarity switch built in for each set of points, but I can’t get my head around wiring ‘two’ opposing frogs.

It’s designed specifically to operate two or more points at the same time, but nowhere does it explain how to wire two opposing frogs.

Me: Flummoxed

 

marco

[marco demarco]

The Cobalt SS control module is in two halves, each independent of each other. In either half, there are: two change-over switches, LED output, switch input.

Each side of the Cobalt SS can control two turnout motors with the appropriate splitter cables.

 

The Cobalt manual confusingly labels the two change over switches (6 and 7 in the manual) differently, but they are the same. So, connect one switch (eg. 6) to one frog, and the other switch (7) to the second frog swapping the input wires left-to-right.

 

( Its not the first time a DCC Concepts user manual fails to explain their products clearly.... )

 

- Nigel

[marco demarco]

Nigel...

That’s very helpful, thanks.

It did cross my mind to do that, however the instructions denote it as a SPDT switch so I didn’t think it would switch polarity.

I’ll give it a go!

 

Thanks

marco

[marco demarco]

A more pressing issue has occurred in the meantime...

After the layout has been left idol for several minutes the point motors seem to act unpredictably.

 

First it appeared that the motor refused to move, although I could hear it whirring.

Further investigation revealed the throw bar had moved in the same direction whenever the switch was activated until it reached the end of its travel along the threaded rod and I can't figure out how to get it back to the centre position. The throw reset button does not do what I expect it to do i.e: centralise the throw bar.

 

The above issue happened a few of times, in between seemingly working fine.

Anyone with similar experience or advise, I'd appreciate hearing it!!

 

marco

[John ks]

If a picture paints a thousand words then this is what I believe Nigelcliffe is saying

 

 

If both points are in diferent Blocks (DC) or power districts (DCC) then LH drawing is the one to use, otherwise the RH drawing is ok

If one or both frogs are the wrong polarity then change the red & blue wires for the offending frog at the cobalt SS

 

Don’t forget the insulated rail joiners

 

Hope the following makes sense.

With a frog you are not so much changing the polarity as selecting which rail(left or right rail) the frog is connected to.

Edit. This is why you only need a SPDT switch

 

John

Edited December 11, 2018 by John ks

[marco demarco]

A more pressing issue has occurred in the meantime...

After the layout has been left idol for several minutes the point motors seem to act unpredictably.

First it appeared that the motor refused to move, although I could hear it whirring.

Further investigation revealed the throw bar had moved in the same direction whenever the switch was activated until it reached the end of its travel along the threaded rod and I can't figure out how to get it back to the centre position. The throw reset button does not do what I expect it to do i.e: centralise the throw bar.

The above issue happened a few of times, in between seemingly working fine.

Anyone with similar experience or advise, I'd appreciate hearing it!!

marco

 

John...

Yup, Nigel's point made a lot of sense. The image you posted doesn't accompany the cobalt ss point pack, so thanks for that and your clarification.

 

However, before I could act on the advice and complete the installation, the motors started to behave erratically, as I described above.

 

marco

[newbryford]

John...

Yup, Nigel's point made a lot of sense. The image you posted doesn't accompany the cobalt ss point pack, so thanks for that and your clarification.

 

However, before I could act on the advice and complete the installation, the motors started to behave erratically, as I described above.

 

marco

 

Some of the early boards had a software glitch.

After a power down, they don't always work the correct way.

This occurs when the direction switch is set to CCW.

 

Set the direction switch to CW and hopefully this will cure it.

The motors will now run in the opposite direction to your original commands. This may be a problem, but depends upon your control system and how you use it

If this is an issue, then use the supplied lead with reverse connector on it.

 

BTW, the manual is incorrect in saying that it centres on reset - it travels to one end.

 

The SS motor can take a bit of setting up but once done I find them pretty good.

Make sure that the case isn't screwed down too tight - especially if the surface isn't flat - this can cause it to stick in one or both directions.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[marco demarco]

Some of the early boards had a software glitch.

After a power down, they don't always work the correct way.

This occurs when the direction switch is set to CCW.

 

Set the direction switch to CW and hopefully this will cure it.

The motors will now run in the opposite direction to your original commands. This may be a problem, but depends upon your control system and how you use it

If this is an issue, then use the supplied lead with reverse connector on it.

 

BTW, the manual is incorrect in saying that it centres on reset - it travels to one end.

 

The SS motor can take a bit of setting up but once done I find them pretty good.

Make sure that the case isn't screwed down too tight - especially if the surface isn't flat - this can cause it to stick in one or both directions.

 

Cheers,

Mick

Mick

 

Thanks for your advice.

I’d like to think I have a latest one considering I just bought the kit at the weekend!

I only had the controller set to CW so that may negate that glitch.

 

I’m also using the supplied lead as I’m wiring up s simple crossover.

 

I will release the motors from the baseboard... I was carefull not to tighten the screws too much, but there may be a chance that this is the issue. I’ll continue with a clear head tomorrow. Probably disconnect the whole lot and start from scratch. See where that gets me!

 

marco

Edited December 12, 2018 by marco demarco

[Nigelcliffe]

My experience is that the SS motor is feeble and unreliable.  It might work with out-of-the-box Peco track, but that's not what we were using.  

A friend's layout, EM, hand laid turnouts, tie-bars with pivoting links to the blades, short and straight wire-in tube connection to motor.   The SS looked like a neat solution for a layout with over 30 turnouts planned in a layout over 60ft end-to-end.   But, having installed one set, the motors would regularly stick at one end of the travel, as described by Marco. The stepper controller is still pulsing the motors, but they don't move.  Various places with friction are the cause - the link into the motor catching on the plastic, any slight drag in the wire-in-tube, and slight friction at the tie-bar.  We found it impossible to get all of these out of the connections at anything like the reliability of operation we need.   So, six packs of motors and controllers were returned to the retailer un-opened.  We're left with the 7th and a pack of cross-over motors and leads as an expensive experiment seeking a new use.   
Replacement system uses servo motors and relay boards for the cross-over switching.   Simple to install, setup, and so far reliable.  We've got about 15 turnouts installed so far, now pausing track laying to allow scenic work to catch up.