Mixed Train Formation

[Right Away]

Another question pertaining to past operations.

 

Attached is a scanned June 1961 photo from a railway tome of which the caption describes as a mixed train on the SR's "Withered Arm". Closer scrutiny reveals the T9 (incidentally modelled by Hornby) hauling in addition to the Maunsell coaches and vans what appear to be unfitted open mineral wagons followed by the requisite brake van.

 

Would the coaches have been ECS for a Padstow departure in which case they comprised part of the "fitted head"?

 

IIRC, there were restrictions on certain vehicles accompanying passenger stock when in service re: loose coupled and/or unfitted.

['CHARD]

Comment to bounce this topic.

 

That looks a bit ECS-ish, certainly in the sense that it's a lone compartment brake (?) and what appears to be a parcels van of some description ('B' perhaps?).

 

Had it been the Waverley route (yawn, yes yadda yadda yadda) that would have been a school train combined with a morning freight, or more likely the back-working of the school coach in a scheduled freight. 

[The Stationmaster]

Looks to me like a perfectly normal Mixed Train. Two passenger coaches including a brake compartment then a freight portion marshalled, as it should be, behind them with a freight brakevan on the rear.  Basically there's not really any such thing as a fitted head (in the normal sense of the term) on a Mixed Train - the passenger vehicles must have a continuous automatic brake in exactly the same way as a passenger train and the freight portion must have sufficient brakevans in relation to the number of freight wagons (which this train definitely has)    

 

In view of the formation, and gradient profile of parts of the route it is conceivable that the continuous brakes on the leading freight vehicles might have been 'bagged up' to the passenger coaches but as there was sufficient brake power from the freight brakevan that was not a necessity.  I'm not sure if the former Southern Railway Instructions in respect of Mixed Trains continued after October 1960 on the Southern Region but they had provided for freight vehicles fitted with fully functioning continuous brakes to be connected to the continuous automatic brake (and for such vehicles to then be reckoned as part of the passenger part of the train tonnage).  Effectively what this meant was that more than the usual permitted number of freight vehicles could then be conveyed with only a single freight brakevan.

[Oldddudders]

The two passenger vehicles are a 2-set P, about which more info may be found on 2ManySpams’s Maunsell Coaches thread. If the pic is truly 1961, we are lucky to have it, since 30313 and all the other dozen remaining T9s were withdrawn that year, leaving only 30120 in preservation.

[Right Away]

If the pic is truly 1961, we are lucky to have it, since 30313 and all the other dozen remaining T9s were withdrawn that year, leaving only 30120 in preservation.

The caption to the photo states 13th June 1961 and goes on to mention that by the beginning of July that year all the remaining T9s, had arrived at Eastleigh and were withdrawn later the same month, excepting of course as you say 30120.

 

Initially puzzled by the grey "unfitted" minerals in the formation if the coaches were carrying passengers; one would assume that with a less than diligent guard the result could be a most uncomfortable trip!

Edited December 16, 2018 by Right Away

[The Stationmaster]

The caption to the photo states 13th June 1961 and goes on to mention that by the beginning of July that year all the remaining T9s, had arrived at Eastleigh and were withdrawn later the same month, excepting of course as you say 30120.

 

Initially puzzled by the grey "unfitted" minerals in the formation if the coaches were carrying passengers; one would assume that with a less than diligent guard the result could be a most uncomfortable trip!

 

It is just a very ordinary Mixed Train and the whole point of Mixed Trains was that they could convey both passenger vehicles and unfitted freight vehicles.  In fact the only one I ever travelled on conveyed on the rear two 16t mineral wagons as barrier wagons around an equally unbraked loaded 45t tank car with a freight brakevan (on the rear end of course) and I noticed nothing unusual about any buffeting or buffering-up of vehicles.

 

 Very easy to forget in this day and age that the working of loose coupled and partially fitted freights was just another part of everyday railway working in Britain and similarly in some areas regular operation of Mixed Trains continued well into the diesel age and because people were familiar with such working they knew what they were at.

 

According to a certain well known online index 30313 was withdrawn on 31 July that year (no doubt that would mean during the 4 weeks ending 31 July)