A4 Tenders Differences

[Ribird]

2 hours ago, JamieR4489 said:

You would need to add brake pipes for Union of South Africa and Sir Nigel Gresley as you are making them from models of locos not in preserved condition (R3737 and R2535) but as Bittern will be made from a model of it as it is preserved (R3771) they might be already added although Hornby might be lazy and leave them off. Dwight, Mallard and Dominion Of Canada don’t need the air brake pipes as they don’t run on the mainline so they have retained their original vacuum brakes (mainline stock is air braked rather than vacuum braked so that’s why Bittern, UoSA and Sir Nigel Gresley need air brakes).

 

For renumbering, a fibre glass pencil lightly rubbed across the transfers will remove them or a cotton bud with a bit of T-cut on the end of it rubbed over the transfer will eventually remove them. There are lots of topics on here about renumbering and quite a few videos on YouTube as well.

I’m trying to make Sir Nigel and UoSA in preserved condition though? 

[JamieR4489]

27 minutes ago, Ribird said:

I’m trying to make Sir Nigel and UoSA in preserved condition though? 

Sorry, I didn't make it clear.

As Sir Nigel, Bittern and UoSA run on the modern mainline, they have air brakes fitted because modern stock uses air brakes. A4s were originally fitted with vacuum brakes so they never had air brakes in service days. Because of this, the models that you're going to use to make SNG and UoSA (Mallard and Woodcock) need to have an air brake hose fitted to the front along with the vacuum pipe which is pre-fitted by Hornby. 

In this picture you can see that Bittern has two brake pipes on the front (one with a red connector and one with a yellow connector)

The model of Bittern that Hornby are going to make is in preserved condition (as you know) so it should have both pipes on the front but Hornby will probably not bother to fit both pipes on as they haven't on other models of A4s in preserved condition.

Here you can see that there is only one pipe fitted so this is what the models will look like straight out of the box.

Sorry for the confusion,

Jamie

[Ribird]

5 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

Sorry, I didn't make it clear.

As Sir Nigel, Bittern and UoSA run on the modern mainline, they have air brakes fitted because modern stock uses air brakes. A4s were originally fitted with vacuum brakes so they never had air brakes in service days. Because of this, the models that you're going to use to make SNG and UoSA (Mallard and Woodcock) need to have an air brake hose fitted to the front along with the vacuum pipe which is pre-fitted by Hornby. 

In this picture you can see that Bittern has two brake pipes on the front (one with a red connector and one with a yellow connector)

The model of Bittern that Hornby are going to make is in preserved condition (as you know) so it should have both pipes on the front but Hornby will probably not bother to fit both pipes on as they haven't on other models of A4s in preserved condition.

Here you can see that there is only one pipe fitted so this is what the models will look like straight out of the box.

Sorry for the confusion,

Jamie

Ok, now I understand, thank you, any good places to buy these pipes?

[JamieR4489]

Detail packs for diesel locos could be a good source - these can be bought separately from eBay or Peter's Spares. One pack will often include several pipes; enough to do two ends of a diesel loco so that should do 2 A4s.

I imagine that a piece of wire bent to shape, painted and glued to the front bufferbeam could also do justice.

 

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hello

 

That’s Wakefield Westgate. The photo is by H.M.Lane and appears in “LNER Locomotives in Colour 1936 - 1948”

 

Late 1937 according to the caption.

 

Jon

 

1 hour ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Jon 4470 has beaten me to it,but as he says it's Wakefield Westgate .

Thanks chaps.

I thought it was probably just pre-war.

Who said pre war colour photos aren't any good?

It looks a little down on contrast otherwise a good rendition.

[Ribird]

12 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

Detail packs for diesel locos could be a good source - these can be bought separately from eBay or Peter's Spares. One pack will often include several pipes; enough to do two ends of a diesel loco so that should do 2 A4s.

I imagine that a piece of wire bent to shape, painted and glued to the front bufferbeam could also do justice.

 

 

Would I need to add these pipes on the tender as well?

[JamieR4489]

25 minutes ago, Ribird said:

Would I need to add these pipes on the tender as well?

Yes. Hornby provide a vacuum pipe for the tender but, as with the front, you'd need to add an air brake pipe for Bittern, SNG and UoSA. I'm not sure you'd be able to fit those pipes if you keep the coupling on the back of the tender, though.

[Ribird]

17 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

Yes. Hornby provide a vacuum pipe for the tender but, as with the front, you'd need to add an air brake pipe for Bittern, SNG and UoSA. I'm not sure you'd be able to fit those pipes if you keep the coupling on the back of the tender, though.

So the air pipe and vacuum pipe need to be added in both front and back, but because of the coupling there can only be the vacuum pipe on the tender? 

[JamieR4489]

The vacuum pipe will be pre fitted on the front of the loco but you'll need to add an air brake pipe. On the back of the tender, you'll need to add both a vacuum (included with all Hornby A4s in the detail pack) and an air brake pipe but I'm not sure you'd be able to fit either of them, let alone both, because of the coupling.

Edited March 2, 2019 by JamieR4489

[micklner]

5 hours ago, Ribird said:

Thank you! Any good links for repainting handrails and/or re-numbering locos with Fox Transfers?

 

So I wouldn’t need to add air brake hoses since they are in preservered condition, correct?

Metal handrails on Hornby A4's are nickel silver , simply scotch the paint off. The Knobs are Brass so paint then with silver paint.

 

Railroad versions do not have metal handrails on the Corridor Tender,  which is also oversize due to being the old Tender drive version (not recommended) moulding.
 

[Ribird]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Metal handrails on Hornby A4's are nickel silver , simply scotch the paint off. The Knobs are Brass so paint then with silver paint.

 

Railroad versions do not have metal handrails on the Corridor Tender,  which is also oversize due to being the old Tender drive version (not recommended) moulding.
 

The knobs? And thanks for the tip with the handrails 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Ribird

[Ribird]

3 hours ago, JamieR4489 said:

The vacuum pipe will be pre fitted on the front of the loco but you'll need to add an air brake pipe. On the back of the tender, you'll need to add both a vacuum (included with all Hornby A4s in the detail pack) and an air brake pipe but I'm not sure you'd be able to fit either of them, let alone both, because of the coupling.

Oh yes, thank you!

[JamieR4489]

9 hours ago, Ribird said:

The knobs? And thanks for the tip with the handrails 

It should be noted, however, that Mallard is the only preserved A4 with silver handrails.

 

9 hours ago, Ribird said:

Oh yes, thank you!

No problem

[Ribird]

8 hours ago, JamieR4489 said:

It should be noted, however, that Mallard is the only preserved A4 with silver handrails.

 

No problem

Yes, I do know that at least. Hopefully renumbering them will go easily. I do have a Hornby RR Golden Shuttle to test this upon before doing the actual models.

[JamieR4489]

32 minutes ago, Ribird said:

Yes, I do know that at least.

Sorry, I couldn't remember if anyone had mentioned it so I thought I would let you know.

 

Edit - It was me who said that Mallard needed silver handrails a few posts ago - D'oh! Shows how good my memory is...

Edited March 3, 2019 by JamieR4489

[Ribird]

On 28/02/2019 at 13:17, JamieR4489 said:

R3095 Commonwealth of Australia would be a good donor for 4496; only a change of name and number would be required as well as removing the crest on the cab and putting a builder's plate on instead.

Kingfisher has a non streamlined corridor tender (identified by the beading at the top of the tank) so this would be wrong for 4496.

As far as i'm aware, Hornby haven't done any other garter blue A4s with streamlined corridor tenders.

Interestingly, Hornby have done a model of Golden Shuttle but this was in the railroad range and so it tows a non streamlined tender, making it inaccurate.

Hope this helps,

Jamie

 

Hold up, doesn’t the picutre way above of Golden Shuttle have a regular corridor tender? Not the one with the bead

 

Also, wouldn’t UoSA be incorrect, even if I would paint that area black on the tender, cuz it is missing that beading?

 

Also also, wouldn’t a Bittern tender be the correct color and beading? Or is there something I’m just not seeing with the tenders?

 

EDIT: Ignore this, I got my tenders backwards.

 

EDIT #2: Using the Commenwealth of Australia A4 (which sucks since it is a anniversary A4) I would need to paint the handrails to be correct for Golden Shuttle?

Edited March 4, 2019 by Ribird

[JamieR4489]

17 hours ago, Ribird said:

EDIT #2: Using the Commenwealth of Australia A4 (which sucks since it is a anniversary A4) I would need to paint the handrails to be correct for Golden Shuttle?

Yes.

[Ribird]

1 hour ago, JamieR4489 said:

Yes.

Sounds good, thanks for the help, so far :p

 

I feel bad that I’m going to renumber 4491 to 4496, oh well. I’ll just buy another one later on

[JamieR4489]

20 hours ago, Ribird said:

Sounds good, thanks for the help, so far :p

 

I feel bad that I’m going to renumber 4491 to 4496, oh well. I’ll just buy another one later on

I can’t find another garter blue A4 with a streamlined corridor tender so I think you’ll have to use 4491.

[Ribird]

29 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

I can’t find another garter blue A4 with a streamlined corridor tender so I think you’ll have to use 4491.

Agreed. Can’t find any others.

 

Edit: I did find this on Hattons but you can see the color difference between the two tenders. If the link works

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/439764/Hornby_R2906Loco_PO_Class_A4_4_6_2_4484_Falcon_in_LNER_Blue_Pre_owned_renumbered_renamed_and_reliv/StockDetail.aspx

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ribird

[JamieR4489]

1 hour ago, Ribird said:

Agreed. Can’t find any others.

 

Edit: I did find this on Hattons but you can see the color difference between the two tenders. If the link works

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/439764/Hornby_R2906Loco_PO_Class_A4_4_6_2_4484_Falcon_in_LNER_Blue_Pre_owned_renumbered_renamed_and_reliv/StockDetail.aspx

 

That loco has a non streamlined corridor tender so it wouldn't be much use as 4491 anyway.

[Ribird]

On 05/03/2019 at 13:01, JamieR4489 said:

That loco has a non streamlined corridor tender so it wouldn't be much use as 4491 anyway.

Getting 4491, I finally see the bow end of the tender, and yes, 4491 is the only one made like this, sadly.

[Ribird]

With my most recent post in the Hornby section about Bittern tooling being changed. What model do you get for a streamlined corridor tender?

[JamieR4489]

Bittern has a non streamlined corridor tender. Kingfisher would probably be best 

[Ribird]

This is the 4496 I wish to replicate. I already have a Commonwealth of Australia for Dwight. Question is, what pieces am I missing once I de-valance the loco? I know of the reverser rod, but is there anything else?

 

Also, any one know or have drawings of de-valanced outlines?