Three Darts and a Jag.

[asa]

Spotted these beautys on Saturday at Dawyck Arboretum near Peebles.

[melmerby]

Isn't the saloon a Daimler 250?

 

(A Mk2 Jag with the Daimler V8 engine, same as Dart)

Edited June 10, 2019 by melmerby

[robmcg]

As I recall the Daimler 'Mk2' or '250' had a fluted grill surround, the Jags 2.4, 3.4 and 3.8  then 240 and 340 had plain smooth chrome grille surrounds.

 

edit the Daimler had a very different engine, a 2.5 V8, nice sound but not much power.

Edited June 10, 2019 by robmcg

[Two_sugars]

140 bhp. . . more than the Jag 2.4 and lighter than the Jag engine.

 

My brother had Daimler 250 for a while. . . a really good driving machine, but rotted like a Mk 2 Jag.

 

John

[PatB]

I can't see the top of the grille on the saloon due to reflection, but the rest of the grille treatment doesn't look quite right for a Jaguar, so, given the company it's keeping, I'm guessing Daimler. Admittedly, all the Daimlers I remember seeing had steel wheels, but I doubt if the conversion to wires would be difficult, using Jag parts, even if not actually available as a factory option.

 

I remember, back c1981-82, a series of articles in Hot Rod & Custom magazine on building a Daimler 2.5 V8 engine for drag racing. The premise of the series, IIRC, was a 700 bhp, 7 second engine for 700 quid. At the time, the Daimler saloon was very much the poor relation to the Jag Mk2 and rotten ones were (relatively) plentiful and cheap as donors.

[asa]

I didn't look closely at them as it was chucking it down,but on reflection it probably is a Daimler too.

[alastairq]

Yup, it's a Daimler, according to DVLA.

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, Two_sugars said:

140 bhp. . . more than the Jag 2.4 and lighter than the Jag engine.

 

My brother had Daimler 250 for a while. . . a really good driving machine, but rotted like a Mk 2 Jag.

 

John

A lot then but nothing these days

My Focus has more and accelerates quicker and is classed as a normal family car.

Daimler also did a 4.5 litre V8 which was used in their Limos, both engines were ripe for tuning.

[alastairq]

15 minutes ago, melmerby said:

My Focus has more and accelerates quicker and is classed as a normal family car.

 

Aaah! Amazing the advances made in 50 years of development..including electronics?

 

I think the Turner [Daimler] V8 was a marvel of its time.....such a pity production issues..and perhaps, internal politics {?} prevented it's wider usage. It is rumoured one of the drag racers that used the V8 produced well over 1000 BHP on standard engine components....Who knows how successful it would have become if pursued with more vigour? Certainly, would the Buick/Rover V8..or the Stag V8, have been necessary?  I wonder.......

[Dunsignalling]

40 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Aaah! Amazing the advances made in 50 years of development..including electronics?

 

 

True across the board. Turbos and fuel injection are the biggest factors, I think.

 

A three cylinder one-litre Fiesta has more poke than the old Mini Cooper 1275 S (as built) and the output of my 2-litre TDi Yeti is up around what one used to get from a 3.8 Jag.   Sorry, accidentally compared the Yeti's Bhp and with the Jag's Kw figures. In BHP it's 170 vs 220.

 

john

Edited June 11, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Oldddudders]

33 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

True across the board. Turbos and fuel injection are the biggest factors, I think.

Very true - but electronics and thus engine management systems have enabled both. Economy is the truly remarkable one, with my 0.9 litre Clio offering 90 bhp and 50+ mpg without losing the fun factor.  Sherry's 1-litre Fiesta automatic does as you say, step off the mark very smartly, to well beyond legal speeds.  

[Joseph_Pestell]

Wife has a Clio 0.9tce for the next few days as her Kia is in for repairs. I will be interested to get her views on it as she does not adapt easily to other cars.

 

I think that we are probably set on a Kia Niro as her next car as there are some good lease deals out there now. Interesting to look at the tech details and see that it does more mpg in town than on the open road. Or is that a typo?

[alastairq]

Turbos are hardly new technology...but as Ian mentioned, it's the electronic control which enables  the benefits to be released.

 

That..plus computerised manufacture which ensures every last thing is the same as the one before....or the one made next week?

 

50-plus MPGs was once the preserve of Fiat 500/126, or, later, Daihatsu Charades, or small Reliants....[ or, very carefully driven minis & imps?]

Now, apparently, it's commonplace?

[giz]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that we are probably set on a Kia Niro as her next car as there are some good lease deals out there now. Interesting to look at the tech details and see that it does more mpg in town than on the open road. Or is that a typo?

Possibly not if it is a hybrid. I believe Kia use a dual clutch gearbox on their hybrids rather than a power split device so at higher speeds it is virtually a straight petrol car.

 

Edit: Just looked and the Toyota Prius also has better urban mpg than extra urban.

Edited June 11, 2019 by giz

[Two_sugars]

14 hours ago, PatB said:

I can't see the top of the grille on the saloon due to reflection, but the rest of the grille treatment doesn't look quite right for a Jaguar, so, given the company it's keeping, I'm guessing Daimler. Admittedly, all the Daimlers I remember seeing had steel wheels, but I doubt if the conversion to wires would be difficult, using Jag parts, even if not actually available as a factory option.

 

I remember, back c1981-82, a series of articles in Hot Rod & Custom magazine on building a Daimler 2.5 V8 engine for drag racing. The premise of the series, IIRC, was a 700 bhp, 7 second engine for 700 quid. At the time, the Daimler saloon was very much the poor relation to the Jag Mk2 and rotten ones were (relatively) plentiful and cheap as donors.

 

Russ Carpenter was the guy . ..  

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, alastairq said:

Turbos are hardly new technology...but as Ian mentioned, it's the electronic control which enables  the benefits to be released.

 

That..plus computerised manufacture which ensures every last thing is the same as the one before....or the one made next week?

 

50-plus MPGs was once the preserve of Fiat 500/126, or, later, Daihatsu Charades, or small Reliants....[ or, very carefully driven minis & imps?]

Now, apparently, it's commonplace?

It certainly is so long as one doesn't go over about a 1.4 litre petrol or 2 litre turbo diesel - my last car before the Yeti was a 2010 Peugeot 207SW estate (1.6 HDi) and I had to really wring its neck to get it to do worse than 50 mpg. On a run it could nudge 60. Even the Yeti, a good ton-and-a-half with 170 bhp and 4wd averages 43-44 in general driving. On the only properly long run I've so far done in it (3-up to Railex and back, from Devon) it delivered 48.6mpg. A friend's Octavia (similar motor but lighter and without 4wd) averages around the 50 mark without conscious effort.

 

PS. One could get 50 mpg out of most (single carb) Imps without being especially gentle. In days of yore I had a Reliant 3/25 (600cc) that did 60mpg without trying, and a 1968 Renault 10 (1100cc) that averaged just shy of 50 in general use and an easy 55 on a run. Better was almost certainly possible as I've never had a particularly light throttle foot.

 

PPS The mpg figures returned by both my Hdi diesel Peugeots (the previous one was a 2-litre 206 DTurbo which was only 3-4 mpg "worse" than the smaller one) didn't reach their very best until they had 55-60k on the clock. Something to look forward to with the Yeti, I hope, which currently has only done 38k.

 

John

[melmerby]

Discussion mpg with a modern diesel is way off 2.5litre V8 petrol engines from the 60s

Petrol is still way off diesel for overall mpg like for like

My current Focus is  turbo petrol (Euro 6 spec) and I have so far averaged 37mpg, my previous was a turbo diesel (Euro 4 spec) averaged just shy of 46mpg over 10 years.

The bhp of the petrol is about 10% more than the diesel and 0-60mph figure is 10% less but it is 20% worse mpg overall.

 

[PatB]

My Triumph Spitfire (1966,but with a Mk3 engine and overdrive 'box), just managed 50 mpg on 3 occasions on long motorway runs. Thought that was pretty special at the time. 

[PatB]

15 hours ago, Two_sugars said:

 

Russ Carpenter was the guy . ..  

 

 

That was great. I particularly liked the casual wearing of a loose, flappy shirt in the vicinity of the blower drive belt. Real 1970s OH&S :D.

Edited June 12, 2019 by PatB

[big jim]

sorry to go a bit off topic too, my 2 BMW minis, on the same motorway commute are very different MPG wise

 

the hardtop 1.6 supercharged cooper (170 bhp approx) will do 33.5mpg.

 

the soft top 1.6 convertible does 40.9 mpg when standard (90bhp), with the superchip bluefin activated it goes to 130bhp but averages 44.9 mpg, in improvement of 4mpg