Microsoft Updates

[Joseph_Pestell]

Last thread has been closed down. I don't know why.

 

But it's happened again. This morning's updates from Microsoft have stopped  my computer (the old one not the ancient one that I am using now) from restarting.

 

What is it with Microsoft? Are they incompetent or are they just extorting money from me by making me replace a working computer with a more recent one (thereby selling a whole set of new software licences)?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Finally got the Toshiba restarted - two hours wasted!

 

But the updates have wiped out Mozilla Firefox. Now that is in clear breach of what Microsoft promises about its StartUp Repair. It would also seem like a breach of completion law.

 

Do we have any learned friends here who specialise in IT law? Meantime, I will be letting Mozilla know what is going on.

[PaulCheffus]

13 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Finally got the Toshiba restarted - two hours wasted!

 

But the updates have wiped out Mozilla Firefox. Now that is in clear breach of what Microsoft promises about its StartUp Repair. It would also seem like a breach of completion law.

 

Do we have any learned friends here who specialise in IT law? Meantime, I will be letting Mozilla know what is going on.

Hi

 

Depends on what options you chose in the startup repair. When mine failed the only way I could get back was a full installation of windows using the repair option. This removed all my installed programs as would be expected.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Joseph_Pestell]

It is also now telling me that Yahoo is not safe and asking me to "authorise" at a very dodgy looking address.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

It is also now telling me that Yahoo is not safe and asking me to "authorise" at a very dodgy looking address.

 

Learned a bit more about this. Apparently, these updates include software which directs me to Yahoo as a browser.

 

Surely, this has been covered before? Both the US and EU ruled this as anti-competitive and Microsoft were fined. So why is it happening again?

 

Strangely enough, it is effectively blocking me as an existing Yahoo user. Bit of an own goal.

[tigerburnie]

So it wasn't just me then...………………………………..

[JJGraphics]

You are far from alone in this continuing saga where some people see almost no problems whilst others struggle with endless issues. Microsoft have an endless battle to try to keep Windows operating on a hugely varied range of hardware made by many disparate suppliers and they sometimes lose the plot more than somewhat with the results you see.

 

Let me tell you a little bit of my personal experience . . . I worked with computer-related things for many years, running my own business to do with graphics, printing and web design. My clients owned about 1700 Macs between them and I was in most cases their only source of technical support and because of the general high reliability of the Macs, I was not stretched to keep all the kit running.

 

I live in a cul-de-sac with 18 houses with friendly neighbours and it became well-known that I worked with computers. I used to be plagued with requests for help from neighbours who were having problems with their PCS . Not being particularly au fait with Windows, and not having either the time or inclination to learn more, I persuaded one or two to get Macs and now all bar two of the houses are Mac users. I rarely get asked for any help. Some of the Macs are around seven years old and are running the latest version of macOS without any trouble. The macOS updates are far less frequent than Windows updates and are quick to download and install, rarely taking more than 30-40 minutes for the major updates (depending on the speed of internet connection being used) and much less for the minor ones.

 

The point of this? The two remaining households are forever moaning about problems with their PCs. They have both replaced their PCs at least twice in the time the others have owned  one Mac and are still experiencing  issues, despite one of them knowing an IT specialist who helps them out.

 

Unless you are doing something that can only be done on a Windows machine, I suggest that you seriously consider getting rid of your PC and getting a Mac. Don’t fall for the old argument about the cost to buy a Mac. That is not what matters. Cost of Ownership over a period of time is what matters . . . and that cost is lowered even further by the absence of  frustration that comes with owning a Mac.

 

John

[Classsix T]

Have to agree with John, working in print as well I've also been Apple all the way at home for PhotoShop and InDesign work (but then, I've never had to shop buy one, the pre-owned market being buoyant, installed with professional studio software, natch).

John has omitted to point out that Apple will ditch the previous OS like a hot potato when it has shiny new kit to sell more or less shepherding you into commitment to buying new kit. Try getting adequate performance browsers and periferal drivers for Motorola chipped iMacs! It can be done, support is out there, a faff though. 

 

John's point stands though that the headaches (and running costs) of Wintel PC's can be largely avoided by buying Apple off the shelf, alternatively buy your PC and install a Unix /Linux OS, having dumped the garbage Microsoft have insisted that the manufacturer pre-install.

 

I don't venerate Steve Jobs BTW, I won't buy an iPhone ever, but I have also vowed never to give any of my money to Bill Gates, or the support network necessary to facilitate his market dominance (and vicariously Monsanto).

 

Phew! What was the question..? C6T.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Classsix T

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JJGraphics said:

Don’t fall for the old argument about the cost to buy a Mac. That is not what matters.

 

Behold! The thousand dollar Apple monitor stand

 

[JJGraphics]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Behold! The thousand dollar Apple monitor stand

 

 

That has no relevance in the market place that normal users belong to, no more that we would buy a £3000 gaming PC to run JMRI . . .

 

John

[Torper]

6 hours ago, JJGraphics said:

Unless you are doing something that can only be done on a Windows machine, I suggest that you seriously consider getting rid of your PC and getting a Mac. Don’t fall for the old argument about the cost to buy a Mac. That is not what matters. Cost of Ownership over a period of time is what matters . . . and that cost is lowered even further by the absence of  frustration that comes with owning a Mac.

 

 The cost to buy a Mac does actually matter considerably if you can't afford it. 

 

Ownership over a period of time?  I've had PCs since the days of DOS, moving on to Windows 3.1, then to 98, and then to Windows 7.  I've really had very few problems, and certainly since getting Windows 98 I reckon you could count the number of software problems I've had on the fingers of one hand.  But there again, I've always chosen my PCs carefully (I've had four including the present one), have never gone for the cheapest (though always very substantially cheaper than a similarly or even lesser configured Mac), and have generally looked after them and taken care to keep systems, anti-virus,  and so on up to date.  Touch wood, I've never had a virus.  So very little frustration, and a whole host of programmes, games, components and accessories available to me that you can't get on a Mac (or if you can , it's through Apple, often at an extortionate price).  On the other hand, it's all too often unreliable third party software that causes problems for Windows, so it's best to take care over that too.  And of course I haven't upgraded to Windows 10.

 

I've just Googled "are macs more reliable than PCs", asking for results during the last year. and was rather surprised by what I read.  I only looked at the first page, but it seems that Mac users are now changing to Windows rather than the other way round.  The perception among people who appear to be professionals is that Apple has just not moved with the times and has stagnated, concentrating on its phones rather than its computers.   But Macs of course look very pretty.

 

DT

[55020]

I watch a huge amount of this guys videos about guitars and rock music, however this one video made me chuckle - a lot 

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Torper said:

I've just Googled "are macs more reliable than PCs", asking for results during the last year. and was rather surprised by what I read.  I only looked at the first page, but it seems that Mac users are now changing to Windows rather than the other way round.  The perception among people who appear to be professionals is that Apple has just not moved with the times and has stagnated, concentrating on its phones rather than its computers.   But Macs of course look very pretty.

 

My personal experience with two failed Macs and four failed iPods is that Apple hardware isn't especially reliable.

Plus the current MacBook lineup isn't upgradeable and they'll charge you handsomely for more memory and disk at purchase time. £80 for a replacement wall-wart power supply for my current Mac BTW.

[JJGraphics]

7 hours ago, 55020 said:

I watch a huge amount of this guys videos about guitars and rock music, however this one video made me chuckle - a lot 

 

 

 

 

What a load of drivel!

 

[JJGraphics]

10 hours ago, Torper said:

 

 The cost to buy a Mac does actually matter considerably if you can't afford it. 

 

Ownership over a period of time?  I've had PCs since the days of DOS, moving on to Windows 3.1, then to 98, and then to Windows 7.  I've really had very few problems, and certainly since getting Windows 98 I reckon you could count the number of software problems I've had on the fingers of one hand.  But there again, I've always chosen my PCs carefully (I've had four including the present one), have never gone for the cheapest (though always very substantially cheaper than a similarly or even lesser configured Mac), and have generally looked after them and taken care to keep systems, anti-virus,  and so on up to date.  Touch wood, I've never had a virus.  So very little frustration, and a whole host of programmes, games, components and accessories available to me that you can't get on a Mac (or if you can , it's through Apple, often at an extortionate price).  On the other hand, it's all too often unreliable third party software that causes problems for Windows, so it's best to take care over that too.  And of course I haven't upgraded to Windows 10.

 

I've just Googled "are macs more reliable than PCs", asking for results during the last year. and was rather surprised by what I read.  I only looked at the first page, but it seems that Mac users are now changing to Windows rather than the other way round.  The perception among people who appear to be professionals is that Apple has just not moved with the times and has stagnated, concentrating on its phones rather than its computers.   But Macs of course look very pretty.

 

DT

 

A Mac may initially cost more than a PC, but if you actually study the Cost of Ownership then over time that is what matters and comparing specifications of Macs and PC is like comparing Apples with Oranges; you need to compare performance rather than just configuration. Another thing that many people also fail to understand is that a Mac comes with a selection of good quality software and other services, some of which are an additional cost for a PC user. Yes, there are games and software that are not available for the Mac, but for the average user that is not a major issue.

 

You can find what you want on Google: IBM have a different professional take on the subject of Macs and their cost of ownership. See: https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibm-open-sources-mac-sysadmin-software/

 

John

 

 

[mezzoman253]

On 13/06/2019 at 09:17, Joseph_Pestell said:

Last thread has been closed down. I don't know why.

 

But it's happened again. This morning's updates from Microsoft have stopped  my computer (the old one not the ancient one that I am using now) from restarting.

 

What is it with Microsoft? Are they incompetent or are they just extorting money from me by making me replace a working computer with a more recent one (thereby selling a whole set of new software licences)?

What this one? 

Rob

[Guest]

Because £800 for a 1TB SSD is totally worth it to get iPhoto.

 

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

My personal experience with two failed Macs and four failed iPods is that Apple hardware isn't especially reliable.

Plus the current MacBook lineup isn't upgradeable and they'll charge you handsomely for more memory and disk at purchase time. £80 for a replacement wall-wart power supply for my current Mac BTW.

Even though I am a Windows user I found that surprising, considering that apart from the OS the rest is the same apart from some "designer" element to the shape & style of them.

As I have mentioned before modern PCs are basically the same hardware wise, such that a reasonably specified PC will run Apple OS witha little tweaking.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Even though I am a Windows user I found that surprising, considering that apart from the OS the rest is the same apart from some "designer" element to the shape & style of them.

 

You'd think, but there you go.

The only PC failure I've had was a screen cable in a Lenovo laptop. £6 for a cable and the laptop was built to be dismantled and repaired

[melmerby]

On 13/06/2019 at 09:17, Joseph_Pestell said:

Last thread has been closed down. I don't know why.

 

 

The thread I opened is still running.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=101620&content_commentid=3584406

[Paddy]

Used PCs since the early days of DOS and over the years I have had few issues.  The key IMHO is to not steer away from a vanilla install too much and to avoid having numerous "tools" or "apps" added to your environment.  Also, buy good quality hardware from recognised manufacturers as you are more likely to get good software drivers that are maintained/fixed on a regular basis.  Finally, keep your PCs up to date especially items like the BIOS to maintain compatibility, stability and security.  There are no guarantees but the above rule of thumb has served me well both professionally as a developer and technical support and home PCs.

 

One other issue is the amount of bloatware that gets pre-installed on PCs - it drives me mad.  Last week I bought I a new HP laptop and was shocked to find how its performance was throttled by this stuff.  In the end, I got fed up and created a Windows 10 installation USB stick from the Microsoft website and installed "plain" Windows 10.  The difference in performance was remarkable.

 

Another issue with Windows 10 is all the "extra goodies" that Microsoft have added and are turned on by default.  Most of us know about the telemetry in Windows 10 but there are others.  For example, Cortana, update options, performance management settings, indexing etc.  Depending on what you use your PC for a lot of these can be turned off.

 

All good fun I suppose.

 

Paddy

 

 

 

[ejstubbs]

I've had four Macs, and still have three of them.  The first one - one of the "lampshade" style iMacs as advertised by Thierry Henri - died inexplicably at ten years old just after I'd completed the utterly painless migration to my second iMac.  A pal of mine still has one of the same model, bought a while before I got mine, running as a media server.

 

My second Mac acquisition was MacBook, which is over ten years old and can't run anything later than Mountain Lion - but it still does that just fine, including sharing storage and desktop with the other Macs when required, and happily backing up to an even older and many-times-upgraded Time Capsule.  It has also had trauma-free third party memory and disc upgrades installed by yours truly.  The optical disc drive has died but (a) I hardly use one these days, and (b) external USB optical drives are cheap as chips these days and can be swapped on to whichever box you actually need one on.  I also run Windows 7 on it using Bootcamp, mainly for when I need to furtle with my Android phones (I prefer to use a physical Windows machine for that rather than a VM).

 

The second iMac I originally bought (from the Apple refurb store) as a present to myself when I got a new job after being made redundant the year before.  The pain-free migration from the first one that I mentioned was achieved using the Time Capsule - the new machine went and found the backup of the old one shortly after I powered it on, without me even having to tell it to.  This machine is now used by my wife, and chunters along quite happily.  The only times I have to help her out with it are when third party software (especially MS Office) start playing up.  Hardware-wise it's been untouched since Apple replaced the original HDD which was part of a faulty batch from IIRC Toshiba (so hardly Apple's fault).

 

My current iMac was another new-job-after-redundancy present to myself, again from the refurb store.  The one they sent was actually a higher spec than had been shown on the web site!  Again, a pain-free, Time-Capsule-based data migration from the previous machine.  No hardware problems in the five years I've had it.  Processes video (which I do quite a lot of) ridiculously fast compared to its predecessors.  And has plenty of grunt left to run Windows 10 in a VM for AnyRail.

 

So that's four computers - five if you count the Time Capsule - over fifteen years, three (or four) of which are still perfectly serviceable and doing useful work.

 

Compared to the three PCs I got through in seven years - two dead, one on its last legs, all needing significant nursing to get them as far as they did - before switching to Macs, I reckon that bears out the "cost of ownership" argument somewhat.

[Classsix T]

My first iMac was also an anglepoise job  (G4 architecture?), never liked the design to start with but grew to love it. Served me trouble free for years using InDesign, PhotoShop, and the video editor. The optical drive in it similarly gave up eventually (I keep a disk in drives these days just to blow the cobwebs off at boot-up).

On a G5 iMac now and apart from trying to find a browser that'll work without moaning about the lack of support for OS 10.4.whatever she'll do. Opera seems to run fine, Chrome...reminds you of dial-up Internet. 

 

Both have connected seamlessly to multiple Sony Xperia phones for data transfer and literally no faff - plug n play with scanners etc.

 

When Dad asked about hardware for surfing/email I specifically warned him off a Wintel laptop and recommended an iPad which does the job hassle free.

 

Games? PlayStation, obvs.

 

C6T. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Classsix T

[Paddy]

Totally agree about the iPad for surfing/email.  Got my first iPad a few months back and it has blown me away.  It simply works.

 

Paddy

 

[melmerby]

3 replies and nothing whatsoever to do with Microsoft updates.

1 hour ago, Paddy said:

Totally agree about the iPad for surfing/email.  Got my first iPad a few months back and it has blown me away.  It simply works.

 

Paddy

 

So does my Samsung Galaxy, so what!