Hornby 1980’s tender drive Locos from my child hood.

[43078shildoncountydurham]

Hi all,

 

Just dug out my Hornby a1 flying Scotsman and a4 seagull both tender drive from the 1980’s,

question is, can these loco’s with a bit work made into some thing good or should they just be boxed away again as children hood toys?

 

Regards

 

Craig

[Corbs]

Anything can be made into something good, the question is....

Do you want:

1 - to learn modelling skills by making something basic into something good

 

Or

 

2 - to own a super detailed A1/A4?

 

If it’s (1) then go for it and detail them up.

If it’s (2) then box them up, give them away or sell them and buy a new model that’s far superior in quality and detail.

 

[The Johnster]

I think the answer is to do with your attitude to tender drive.  If you are prepared to accept it (I’m not unless the tender-loco coupling is tight and the tender cannot be seen to push or pull the loco), then as Corbs says you will be able to work the models up into ‘something good’.  There is little wrong with the body toolings which are to scale in all the important dimensions, and IIRC Seagull’s livery was pretty good.  

 

You would need to do quite a bit of work, though.  Apart from general working up and detailing (lamp irons, tools, crew, that sort of thing), Hornby models of that era sit about 2mm too high, as evidenced by the difference in buffer height next to other makes.  This is not an error, but deliberate owing to a tension lock coupling clearance issue on curves. 

 

So, you have to remove material from the loco and tender chassis where the bodies attach to ‘drop’ the loco to the correct height, a fair bit of surgery, and the locos will not be able to negotiate the sharper set track curves. 

 

Hornby’s 1980s Flying Scotsman’s livery looks a bit gaudy and shiny to my taste, and I’d want to be doing a full repaint and re-lining as well.  The plastic behind the splashers needs removing, a fiddly job, and both locos need proper etched nameplates. 

 

Beyond that it depends how much you want to spend and how much work you want to put in.  The locos’ chassis can certainly be improved in terms of wheels and motion, and there will still be the issue of tender drive cogs visible on one side, though it’s not as bad on these 8 wheeled LNER tenders as it is on, say, an Airfix Castle, Dean Goods, or 4F fromm the same era, or any Lima loco!  I doubt the flanges are suitable for Code 75 Peco.  

Edited June 21, 2019 by The Johnster

[43078shildoncountydurham]

Thank you chaps, think I will put them back in the cupboard..

 

Regards

 

Craig

[DCB]

The Tender drive locos suffer from the being a couple of mm too high  which is no big deal to cure as basically everything sits too high on the chassis, and once you get the buffer height right everything then slots into place, Just needs craft knife and files,  The rubbish bogie and pony wheels can be fixed by using modern Hornby wheels, I used Hornby spoked coach wheels with the pin points filed off on a H/D Castle recently but the Tender drives leap about like demented rabbits and make the track filthy. However they do actually pull decent length trains. If you can tolerate the filthy track then go for it but mine have almost all been retired, just the Hornby King and early 9F with 6 wheel drive survive until something else able to haul 8 heavy metal coaches or 20 heavy tank wagons up a 1 in 24 gradient becomes available.   

Remember the locos were designed for 13" radius curves and the tender drawbar length can be closed up dramatically for 2nd radius 18" radius curves and the bogie swing likewise can be restricted. I put a 1970s Flying Scotsman loco drive chassis under a 2000's Mallard body for my son once.  Too much hassle never again.

Edited June 21, 2019 by DavidCBroad

[MrTea]

I still have fond memories of my model of 4472 that arrived in about 1982. 

 

It it lasted quite a long time but eventually the wipers on the front drivers gave up so power collection was intermittent and something really odd happened to the wheels on the tender and they got all pockmarked and pitted. 

 

My A1 ended her days off the layout in the back of a wardrobe. 

 

When I finally got my own house and enough disposable income I invested in an R3070 Tornado from the A1 Trust and even though it’s a Railroad spec model, the livery application is very well done and the performance is excellent. I managed to fit a DCC chip no problem and I’ve been very happy with it overall. 

 

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing but I think that the quality of models has improved so much in the last 35 or so years that you’re better off investing in new or secondhand 2000- on models if you can. 

 

Have fun!

 

Ian

[Legend]

It depends on you really . If you can’t live with some of the compromises that were involved and must have the latest highly detailed version of something then these models are not for you . I have to say I’ve kept and still run all of mine . In some cases it’s the nostalgia factor and the memory of the person that gave it to me , but in a lot of cases  I bought them myself and they run just for the hell of it . I do have Seagull but also have alternate Sir Nigel Gresley body without side valances , D49 Cheshire , A3 Pacific’s Prince Palatine and Flying Scotsman with the Elephant ears . All run extremely well . They do for me  but I accept there are newer, better versions available . For instance using an LMS example I know the old tender driven Coronations are too short while the later 2002+ ones are the correct length , I can’t live with that compromise so have the later version. 

 

It means and if I want I can have LNER running days , Mainline/ Bachmann J72s, J39s and Hornby N2s make up the numbers  without investing a fortune in new loco stock, for something I maybe run once a year . Similar with LMS with Hornby Patriots, Jinties etc . So more choice at lower cost .  It’s the fun of running trains

Edited June 22, 2019 by Legend

[Steamport Southport]

There's not much wrong with them. They are of their time, but they certainly aren't as antiquated as Hornby Dublo or Triang. I wouldn't even bother my bin with that junk.

 

In fact they are still in the range albeit with loco drive and a few other refinements which came in about 15 years ago.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/51238/hornby_r3086_class_a1_4_6_2_4472_flying_scotsman_in_lner_apple_green_railroad_range/stockdetail.aspx

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/98220/hornby_r3371_class_a4_4_6_2_4468_mallard_in_lner_garter_blue_railroad_range/stockdetail.aspx

 

I don't recall them ever having visible cogs. I always thought they had the Ringfield motor totally in the tender body? It was only Airfix that visible cogs.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/459589/hornby_r372_po19_class_a4_4_6_2_seagull_4902_in_lner_blue_pre_owned_poor_noisy_runner_imperfect/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have numerous tender driven Hornby engines. People say that they have for various reasons they either did not like them or have had problems with them. I can except for one exception, A later model black 9F never really had a problems. But then again I am not into trying to make my engines perfect replicas of the real thing. If I did that then the 20+ Wrenn/Hornby Dublo engines I have would all have to go. And that I can assure you will never happen. If you want to run trains in a semi realistic setting for the fun of running trains then use them. If you do not then sell them to some one who does and let them get the enjoyment out of them. You can then use the money to buy another engine that is more to your tastes. As they say horses for courses.

Edited June 22, 2019 by cypherman

[AMJ]

Keep em as your "heritage fleet" to remind you what models were like some time ago.  I have a Wrenn Std 4 tank which has no comparison to the Bachmann one.

[Steamport Southport]

On 22/06/2019 at 16:44, cypherman said:

Hi all,

I have numerous tender driven Hornby engines. People say that they have for various reasons they either did not like them or have had problems with them. I can except for one exception, A later model black 9F never really had a problems. But then again I am not into trying to make my engines perfect replicas of the real thing. If I did that then the 20+ Wrenn/Hornby Dublo engines I have would all have to go. And that I can assure you will never happen. If you want to run trains in a semi realistic setting for the fun of running trains then use them. If you do not then sell them to some one who does and let them get the enjoyment out of them. You can then use the money to buy another engine that is more to your tastes. As they say horses for courses.

 

I was maybe a bit harsh on the HD/Triang/etc. models. But in my opinion they should be kept together and not mixed with modern stuff.

 

I like a good retro model as much as the next man. I saw a fantastic layout a few years ago where everything was Hornby Dublo with nothing else. Track, buildings, rolling stock all HD, straight out of the box. Just as a young child in the 1950s probably dreamed of but could never afford.

 

 

Jason

[D9020 Nimbus]

The reason why Hornby models used to be 2mm too high has nothing to do with curves as such—rather it was to allow a figure-8 layout (with a flyover bridge) to be constructed on a 6' x 4' board, giving enough clearance for overhead catenary.

 

Source: Iain Rice in an old issue of Modelling Railways Illustrated, quoting someone from Triang/Hornby. Can't remember the exact issue, or who he was quoting, but the reason stuck in my mind...

[Legend]

30 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The reason why Hornby models used to be 2mm too high has nothing to do with curves as such—rather it was to allow a figure-8 layout (with a flyover bridge) to be constructed on a 6' x 4' board, giving enough clearance for overhead catenary.

 

Source: Iain Rice in an old issue of Modelling Railways Illustrated, quoting someone from Triang/Hornby. Can't remember the exact issue, or who he was quoting, but the reason stuck in my mind...

 

Yep that's right its also quoted in the 1979 Hornby book of trains . They are 2mm higher to give enough vertical movement for inclines.