GWR P22 / BR Herring ZLV diag 582

[Gordon A]

I have been for sometime researching the GWR P22 ballast hopper wagon.

Two hundred and fifty of these wagons were built between 1945 and 1949 with a further batch being built in BR days.

I can find pictures of these ballast wagons in use up to 1984.

Virtually all the pictures show them as fitted with oil axle boxes apart from one picture in Paul Bartlett's collection showing  ( DB992246_BR__Herring__ZLV_diag_582__m_)   a P22 wagon fitted with SKF / BKF(?) roller bearing axle boxes.

 

Does anyone know when these ballast wagons were fitted with roller bearings?

Was this a one off wagon so fitted or were there more so fitted?

 

I believe I was shown one other picture of a roller bearing wagon, possible in the RCTS collection, which I cannot find.

 

Gordon A

[eastwestdivide]

3 hours ago, Gordon A said:

...I can find pictures of these ballast wagons in use up to 1984...

If it's any help, I've a photo of one at (I think) Nuneaton in 1985, no roller bearings, still branded HERRING VB, no TOPS code:

[Gordon A]

Thanks Eastwest divide. Your picture is of a later Herring, not a GWR P22 design Herring.

 

Gordon A

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, Gordon A said:

Thanks Eastwest divide. Your picture is of a later Herring, not a GWR P22 design Herring.

 

Gordon A

 

To be honest, I didn't realise the Herring CARKND covered different shaped hopper designs.  I think like Gordon, I was expecting the smaller hoppers used mostly on the WR  

Like Paul Bartlett's piccie here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring/h176A8E8B#h176a8e8b

 

Incidentally, is that a roller bearing axlebox on the nearer wheelset ?

[Fat Controller]

16 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

To be honest, I didn't realise the Herring CARKND covered different shaped hopper designs.  I think like Gordon, I was expecting the smaller hoppers used mostly on the WR  

Like Paul Bartlett's piccie here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring/h176A8E8B#h176a8e8b

 

Incidentally, is that a roller bearing axlebox on the nearer wheelset ?

THe Trout also existed in two very different forms, IIRC.

The axle-box isn't  a roller-bearing one; it's just the light.

 

[Mark Saunders]

35 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

To be honest, I didn't realise the Herring CARKND covered different shaped hopper designs.  I think like Gordon, I was expecting the smaller hoppers used mostly on the WR  

Like Paul Bartlett's piccie here https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring/h176A8E8B#h176a8e8b

 

Incidentally, is that a roller bearing axlebox on the nearer wheelset ?

 

CARKND refers to TOPS codes as in ZLV for vehicles whereas Herring is a Telegraph code.

 

Mark Saunders 

[Swindon 123]

I only ever managed to photograph one of the earlier GWR Herrings, also coded ZLV, at Norwich of all places in early 1984. I never saw one with roller bearings, but as mentioned in the original post, at least one was so fitted. 

 

Paul J.

[Gordon A]

Thanks Swindon123. Do you know what date the photo was taken?

The latest picture I have found of one in use is 1984.

 

Gordon A

[Fat Controller]

I would suspect that most went by 1984/5; as built-up ballast shoulders became more and more important, then the wagons that could only discharge into the 4' became redundant.

The fact that the controls for the hopper were on the solebars reduced their usefulness as well. They would have been difficult to unload on the move, and the adjacent running line would probably have to be blocked as well.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Fat Controller

[Swindon 123]

39 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

Thanks Swindon123. Do you know what date the photo was taken?

The latest picture I have found of one in use is 1984.

 

Gordon A

Yes. 7th February 1984. Taken on one of my MP12 train handling trips to Norwich. If you follow the link to my Flickr site, there are another couple of shots, including one of the other side.

 

Paul J.