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Collingwood - A Privatisation Era Southern Region Layout


St. Simon
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On 26/10/2021 at 16:09, St. Simon said:

 

 

IMG_1846.JPG.fa1cb10012f10b83597aa0438d45048c.JPG

 

The reason I didn’t model the relay room originally was that I thought it would be odd to have the relay room present when the signalling would be controlled by a new signalling centre and interlocking room across the tracks. However, I now think that it provides a good comparison between old and new systems, all I think I need to do is paint a green cross on the doors to make it look as though it is to be pulled down (as seen on some location cases that are due for recovery!). Also, the brick walls make a better background for photographing stuff on the junction.

 

Generally relay rooms of this design (it looks similar to those built in the early 1980s for the Victoria and BML schemes) are NOT demolished when resignalling takes place unless they are physically in the way of a new track layout. Sometimes they incorporate messing facilities for the local S&T (the clue being a window) and these would still be needed even after a the building becomes redundent for housing S%T equipment. In other cases you have Telecoms assets inside them which are not affected by the resignalling scheme so the building has to stay  (unless Telecoms want to stump up the cost of moving them, which they usually don't) - this is the case at Gatwick where the 1970s era relay room has no signalling assets in it but it does have some Telecoms stuff / cable terminations inside so it continues to be maintained.

 

 

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On 04/11/2021 at 22:54, jamespetts said:

Gosh, how have I not found this thread until now? I am very much in favour of realistic signalling control for model railway layouts, and am currently building my own layout along similar lines (albeit with TrainController rather than JMRI).

 

I shall very much look forward to seeing progress on this layout and perhaps seeing it at an exhibition one day.


Thanks, I’m intrigued about how you are doing it in Traincontroller!

 

Yes, I’m looking forward to taking it out to exhibitions as well, I am taking bookings for shows from early summer 2022, so if anyone knows of any shows that would be interested, please get in contact!

 

Simon

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On 04/11/2021 at 23:58, phil-b259 said:

 

Generally relay rooms of this design (it looks similar to those built in the early 1980s for the Victoria and BML schemes) are NOT demolished when resignalling takes place unless they are physically in the way of a new track layout. Sometimes they incorporate messing facilities for the local S&T (the clue being a window) and these would still be needed even after a the building becomes redundent for housing S%T equipment. In other cases you have Telecoms assets inside them which are not affected by the resignalling scheme so the building has to stay  (unless Telecoms want to stump up the cost of moving them, which they usually don't) - this is the case at Gatwick where the 1970s era relay room has no signalling assets in it but it does have some Telecoms stuff / cable terminations inside so it continues to be maintained.

 

 


Hi Phil,

 

You're right, I had to travel over to East Croydon for a project meeting last week and noticed how many relay rooms such as the one I modelled are still standing even though most can’t have contained any signalling equipment!

 

Simon

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On 09/11/2021 at 22:37, St. Simon said:


Thanks, I’m intrigued about how you are doing it in Traincontroller!

 

Yes, I’m looking forward to taking it out to exhibitions as well, I am taking bookings for shows from early summer 2022, so if anyone knows of any shows that would be interested, please get in contact!

 

Simon

 

What I am doing in TrainController does not reach the level of accuracy of representation of an IECC as your work; but I use the customisability of the TrainController interface to make it look as much like an IECC as I can:

 

50048406552_7f11eeaafc_b.jpgTrainController signalling display by James Petts, on Flickr

 

I should note that I have made some modifications since I posted the above.

 

I have been able to get it to work such that I can have the trains running fully automatically with "ARS" enabled, and that they wait for routes to be set manually (click for the entry and exit of routes: like you, I could not get it to work by clicking on the signals, so I have to use the grey arrow heads) with it disabled by using block locking logic as described in the TrainController manual. Signal aspect logic is relatively straightforward using customisable trigger logic for signals. I have managed to work out how to set up approach locking with different timeouts by pressing "c" and then clicking on the entry symbol by running a macro (although unfortunately I cannot replicate the flashing red aspect shown on the signalling display in this case). I have replicated point failure indications by installing position detection microswitches on all of my turnouts and connecting these to the TrainController point position indication system, then setting a macro to run giving the IECC warning sound downloaded from the SimSig website and displaying a message. I have not yet worked out how to make overlaps work; I suspect that this may not be possible.

 

I am currently working out how best to make work virtual extensions to the layout, which track a virtual version of trains on the layout before they enter and after they leave in each direction. I had used macros that store the state of virtual trains as they progress in early testing last year, but found that these stop running and do not save their state or resume running when quitting TrainController or even just stopping the layout (e.g. in the event of a derailment), so this system is very fragile.

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Simon

 

Assuming your layout is still 22 feet long, it would fit into the Basingstoke show's floor plan for our March 2022 show on the 12 & 13th, If interested, drop me a line on robsscore@aol.com and I can pop over a formal invite plus the usual paperwork

 

Rob

(On behlf of Basingstoke & N Hants MRS)

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On 12/11/2021 at 19:56, RScore said:

Simon

 

Assuming your layout is still 22 feet long, it would fit into the Basingstoke show's floor plan for our March 2022 show on the 12 & 13th, If interested, drop me a line on robsscore@aol.com and I can pop over a formal invite plus the usual paperwork

 

Rob

(On behlf of Basingstoke & N Hants MRS)

 

Hi Rob,

 

The layout has increased to be 28ft long, but decreased to be 2ft wide. The layout with operating area would be 29ft (1ft on one end of the layout for access) x 6ft (2ft at both front and back of layout).

 

Layout.jpg.265ea5bd43ef84a567033f2c7f28959d.jpg

 

 

If you are still interested, I'd be more than happy to come along and I can give you some details.

 

Simon

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Hi,

 

Now to the station board!

 

The last update on this board was 18 months ago, and the major thing outstanding was the forecourt and station building. Well, that problem has been filled:

 

IMG_0185.JPG.99ac955bc03ab19e23d6291a4976b99d.JPG

 

This is almost entirely down to one person, @Graham_Muz, he was exceptionally kind to take on the challenge of building the station building and he has done a fantastic job:

 

IMG_0199.JPG.37271b23741ec263399db400c1055b71.JPG

 

It currently is not fully stuck down as Muz and I are just finishing some walls to fill the gap between the building and the footbridge and I don’t want to stick it all the way down until we’ve , but I’ve wired it in to show the lighting and interiors.

 

On the very left of the building is a Café:

 

IMG_0214.JPG.4f042f363eb2b7d7cd2dfc29331a01dd.JPG

 

In the centre is the ticket hall with ticket barriers and machines

 

IMG_0215.JPG.0879e12e253eec8b024d59b5a87060c9.JPG

 

Finally, there is the Station Office:

 

IMG_0216.JPG.1444129f683c1b1bb524a386d37f34ae.JPG

 

Not only did he build the building, Muz also helped to construct the forecourt bases which I then painted and added the road markings. As we built the forecourt, we discovered that the Wills Paving Sheet is exactly the same height as the Mounting Card from HobbyCraft we were using to building the structure underneath, a top tip for anyone else trying.

 

I’ve got a Bus Kit to build for the bus stop, which I will make into a very special Rail Replacement Bus from Lucketts, a prominent bus company in the Fareham Area (one which provided the buses to get us Network Rail Apprentices from HMS Collingwood to HMS Sultan).

 

The final things to be done on this board is to get the Island Station Buildings done (to which Muz has also very kindly agreed to build), finish the canopies and do final detailing.

 

The only thing I haven’t done anything on is the ‘garden’ of the P-Way depot as I’m not sure how to effectively fill the space, it’ll probably just be modelling the normal dumping ground of ballast, sleepers etc:

 

IMG_0220.JPG.c83343ceb7c2f50641f69501bdf59343.JPG

 

That’s it for progress on the layout, I’ll have another update in a week or so once the island buildings have been handed over.

 

Simon

 

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Some fantastic and inspirational work here Simon, well done. I like the supermarket in particular. I wouldn't worry about the harbour looking boxy, loads of places have little inlets like this and the bridges look ideal for the situation.

Rich

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12 hours ago, Rich Papper said:

Some fantastic and inspirational work here Simon, well done. I like the supermarket in particular. I wouldn't worry about the harbour looking boxy, loads of places have little inlets like this and the bridges look ideal for the situation.

Rich

 

9 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Lovely layout.

 

Dave.

 

Thank you Rich and Dave, very kind of you both!

 

Simon

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On 18/04/2022 at 21:07, St. Simon said:

I’m undecided on whether there should be lighting around the harbour promenade, I feel as though there should be, but I also feel that would be too much lighting. What do you lot think?

 

Yes there should be lighting around the harbour promenade. The boats will come and go at all hours, often depending on the tide so lighting is needed to allow people to access their boats. Some low level bollards, say 1m high, would work although you will need more of them as each light will not cover a large area. Alternative would be some wall mounted fittings, either bulkhead lights or more traditional lanterns . The spacing would typically be 2-3 time the height from the walkway.

 

I am not an expert on this, but the bridge may need navigation lights, either to indicate the height of the bridge or if there is a oneway system for the boats.

 

Finally, worth having a look to see what Andrew P has done on his latest GWR layout to stop the light bleed from houses, especially onto the backscene.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

 

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On 19/04/2022 at 21:21, stivesnick said:

 

Yes there should be lighting around the harbour promenade. The boats will come and go at all hours, often depending on the tide so lighting is needed to allow people to access their boats. Some low level bollards, say 1m high, would work although you will need more of them as each light will not cover a large area. Alternative would be some wall mounted fittings, either bulkhead lights or more traditional lanterns . The spacing would typically be 2-3 time the height from the walkway.

 

I am not an expert on this, but the bridge may need navigation lights, either to indicate the height of the bridge or if there is a oneway system for the boats.

 

Finally, worth having a look to see what Andrew P has done on his latest GWR layout to stop the light bleed from houses, especially onto the backscene.

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

 

Thanks Nick, I'll look again at the lighting, I don't think I can do wall mount lights as it's a lot of resin and wood to drill through at a funny angle, so I might go for the bollard lights. I also never thought of the navigation lights on the bridge I'll look at that as well.

 

As for the housing light bleed, that was my fault, I did paint the inside of the building black where I thought the light would bleed from, but I obviously I didn't paint enough, and I can't do anything about it as the house is firmly stuck down, I might put some card behind the building to stop it shining onto the backscene. I was hoping people won't notice that much, but it is a bit glaring, particularly in the photos!

 

Simon

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11 hours ago, JackB95 said:

Incredible bumper-update! Absolutely love the work you've done, especially with the crossing!

 

Thanks, my favourite bit is the Crossing (I think it was always going to be), and it is immensely satisfying to perform the whole sequence and watch the layout and the IECC panel integrate exactly as I had intended it to! 

 

Simon

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“The Crossing leads to a very small housing estate (could you call 2 houses an estate?)…. Hornby End.”
 

Hi Simon -

This has been a really fascinating thread to follow, particularly the signalling details and structures - congratulations. However, is it too late to suggest a review of Hornby End? A barrier crossing leading to just two modern houses seems unrealistic.

 

How about relocating the substation to the end of the cul-de-sac, incorporating its brick side wall into the existing trackside wall, and add some more tall trees behind. The road could then appear to continue beyond the crossing and into a larger housing estate - add some more of the ‘rooftops above trees’ backscene that you have behind the RRV area near the station.

 

Another idea instead of ordinary housing, the road could be serving a more exclusive project such as conversion of an old historic mansion or mill-type building into apartments, hotel, activity park, etc. The building could be glimpsed in low relief behind more trees, with construction vehicles and equipment waiting at the crossing.

 

Anyway, just some observations from the property world to enhance that section of the layout.

ModRX

 

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4 hours ago, ModRXsouth said:

A barrier crossing leading to just two modern houses seems unrealistic.

Generally, yes; specifically, no!!!

Level crossings over the railway depend on who has rights of access.  The type of crossing is then influenced by what sort of signalling is there, what level of road user and any other aggravating factors like a school.  So, given that the controlling box is an IECC, there aren’t many types of crossing that fit the bill.  As an example, Yoker IECC had a full barrier level crossing at Bowling where the access was straight into a small shipyard - not even a road on the other side.

So, yes, seems unrealistic, would be unusual, but not ‘impossible’.

Some of the ‘dark art’ of signalling is knowing someone who knows where something unusual was done and for what reason!!!

;-)

Paul.

 

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5 hours ago, ModRXsouth said:

“The Crossing leads to a very small housing estate (could you call 2 houses an estate?)…. Hornby End.”
 

Hi Simon -

This has been a really fascinating thread to follow, particularly the signalling details and structures - congratulations. However, is it too late to suggest a review of Hornby End? A barrier crossing leading to just two modern houses seems unrealistic.

 

How about relocating the substation to the end of the cul-de-sac, incorporating its brick side wall into the existing trackside wall, and add some more tall trees behind. The road could then appear to continue beyond the crossing and into a larger housing estate - add some more of the ‘rooftops above trees’ backscene that you have behind the RRV area near the station.

 

Another idea instead of ordinary housing, the road could be serving a more exclusive project such as conversion of an old historic mansion or mill-type building into apartments, hotel, activity park, etc. The building could be glimpsed in low relief behind more trees, with construction vehicles and equipment waiting at the crossing.

 

Anyway, just some observations from the property world to enhance that section of the layout.

ModRX

 

 

Hi ModRX,

 

Thanks for the suggestions and I did think of hinting at more of a housing estate, which would be more plausible than what I have shown. However, it is very hard to blend a road convincingly into a backscene without having a custom painted backscene, and there isn't enough room to try and hide the road from where people would be viewing the layout.

 

I agree that a normal Barrier Crossing would be unrealistic for two houses, but the Level Crossing is an Manually Controlled Barriers - On Call (MCB-OC), this type of crossing is used where there is a need for a barrier crossing (in this case I don't think I could get away with an AHB, AOCL or ABCL, and besides I wanted a full set of barriers), but the rail traffic was far higher than the road traffic. I choose an MCB-OC simply because it was the easiest to model in terms of interlocking data etc and would allow an element of audience participation. Now, this means that I had to model a scene that would justify the reason for it only being an MCB-OC rather than an MCB-CCTV or MCB-OD (which requires much more complex interlocking data). So if I had modelled a full housing estate, then either the crossing wouldn't be suitable or there wouldn't be a crossing as there would be another road out of the estate. 

 

Therefore a couple of new-build houses in an exclusive plot with a garage (hence one household owning a Lotus!) fits the 'story' of the layout quite well, although I will agree it is slightly unrealistic!

 

Simon

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5 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Even better,  I think Bowling was OC too, although with CCTV.

Paul.


Hi Paul,

 

If I’ve read the standard correctly, an MCB-OC is a sub type of MCB-CCTVs, as it still requires the CCTV image for the signalling to confirm the crossing clear, although I suppose you could use Obstacle Detection as well.

 

Simon

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Thanks Simon for explaining the type of crossing for Hornby End - I now understand the ‘manual’ element for such a location.

I entered ‘MCB- OC level crossing’ into Google and among the entries is a video for New Barnetby crossing. There are posts with explanatory signs, plunger buttons and yellow phone boxes so would these be on your ‘to do’ for adding to Hornby End? And any idea what is on the top of these posts - a solar panel?

ModRX

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Interesting photos come up!

New Barnetby is a single track road across the railway on what could be a rat run if the crossing were normally open to road traffic which is why it remained an on call crossing.  It looks like it is CCTV as there is the base of a CCTV column on the south side of the line and lighting columns on both sides.

I haven't seen a solar panel like that before - my guess is that it is to illuminate the sign beneath it and the other on the opposite side of the road.

Paul.

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4 hours ago, ModRXsouth said:

Thanks Simon for explaining the type of crossing for Hornby End - I now understand the ‘manual’ element for such a location.

I entered ‘MCB- OC level crossing’ into Google and among the entries is a video for New Barnetby crossing. There are posts with explanatory signs, plunger buttons and yellow phone boxes so would these be on your ‘to do’ for adding to Hornby End? And any idea what is on the top of these posts - a solar panel?

ModRX


Hi,

 

Yes, all the signs are request units are on my to-do list, I’ll do a final detail of the whole layout once I get it up.

 

I do think the things on the top of the posts are Solar Panels, I can’t see what else they might be.

 

Simon

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Hi,

 

Only a quick update to say that Collingwood is booked in at its first exhibition:

 

Saturday 11th March & Sunday 12th March 2023 - Basingstoke Model Railway Exhibition - Aldworth School Basingstoke.

 

Currently this is the layout exhibition debut, but I am in a position to exhibit the layout anytime in the second half of the year, so please get in contact!

 

On the layout front, I have now got the island buildings from Muz and I am sort of in the process to putting them on the layout.

 

I say sort of as I’m currently on sick leave with an infected bite, so not near the layout. I’m almost mended so should be back modelling next week!

 

Simon

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