Imaginary Locomotives

[Corbs]

Knuckles of this parish is doing a rendition of that at the moment (he's already made one I believe)

[LNWR18901910]

Knuckles of this parish is doing a rendition of that at the moment (he's already made one I believe)

Yes, he has, but what about selling one on Shapeways with his Class 28 Mogul?

[Corbs]

Yes, he has, but what about selling one on Shapeways with his Class 28 Mogul?

Yes I think he is planning on one.

This was his previous Henry Mk.1

[LNWR18901910]

Yes I think he is planning on one.

This was his previous Henry Mk.1

I know - I talked to him about it previously. That is a nice model.

[Pacific231G]

Interesting. But was the diesel actually providing power to the TGV's traction motors, or just pushing/pulling it like a Pendolino to Holyhead?

 

The first time I saw a TGV was at a station yet to be electrified, to show the public what a treat they had in store. 

 

Rather good fun - not only were they letting people into the cab, but you got to walk through the engine room and out the other side.

It was just pulling it and the diesels were three 72000s specially fitted with couplers and 1500V DC power jumpers to provide juice for the lights and aircon as well as for the TGV's electric brakes. Eight TGV sets received the special mods needed to participate in this service.

 

Apparently the service was diesel hauled from Nantes and not just from the junction at LaRoche sur Yon and it wasn't particularly fast. I don't think the diesels operated push-pull but could be wrong about that. I think it was  a 2 rame train Paris to Nantes with a single rame (set) from there to Les Sables d'Olonne. It cost millions to set up the diesel hauled TGV service but  I think there was some politics to do with the Vendee having been left off the TGV map. 

 

The diesel hauied TGV seems to have run from 2000-2004. Diesel haulage proved excessively expensive and until electrification in 2008 there was a gap during which passengers had to change trains at Nantes.So far as I can tell from a few newspaper reports it cost €105M to electrify the line and it offers two or three (in summer) return TGV services to Paris via Nantes each day taking about 3.5h. As far as Nantes they still run on the classic line and I don't think even SNCF would build a dedicated high speed line for two or three trains a day. . 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Pacific231G

[DavidB-AU]

What if the next loco after the AL6 had been for heavy freight on the WCML? And if it survived to privatisation.

 

 

Cheers
David

[DavidB-AU]

I'm sure somebody has thought of this before. Not entirely convinced about the livery styling. Would it look better painted like a 90?

 

 

Cheers

David

[DavidB-AU]

A hypothetical second generation HST.

 

 

Cheers

David

[Satan's Goldfish]

The 2nd gen HST would be a good one to wind up exhibition goers.....

 

Something doesn't look quite right about the double 91..... could make it uglier by doing it as a double blunt-end 91!

[Flying Pig]

The 2nd gen HST is a good idea, but I feel it would be more enraging if based on Mk4 stock.

 

The 91 livery might look better with the angle reversed at one end so the colours formed a sheared rather than tapering block.

[Coryton]

The 2nd gen HST is a good idea, but I feel it would be more enraging if based on Mk4 stock.

 

The 91 livery might look better with the angle reversed at one end so the colours formed a sheared rather than tapering block.

 

Found an interesting book - "Locomotives That Never Were" (Robin Barnes) - in a 2nd hand bookshop today.

 

Might be of interest to some people here. Supposedly all things that made it as far as the drawing board. Mostly steam but not all.

 

It finished with what at the time was more of a "might be" than a "might have been" - a picture of 89 001 hauling Mk 3's, all in rather peculiar livery.

[Wolseley]

Very interesting indeed:

 

 

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Caledonian also designed a 2-8-0 and two Pacifics.....

[Ohmisterporter]

I saw a pre WW1 L&Y drawing for a 2-10-0 but can't remember where and the Caledonian designed a 4-4-2 as shown in Nock's book. There are probably loads of designs that never came to anything.

[brack]

The Caledonian could've done with some firm midland-esque small engine policy for the last couple of decades of its existence - everything bigger than a 4-4-0 they turned out was rubbish. Their only good 4-6-0s were the Rivers. I dread to think what sort of performance their pacifics or 2-8-0 would've had.

[Compound2632]

The Caledonian could've done with some firm midland-esque small engine policy for the last couple of decades of its existence - everything bigger than a 4-4-0 they turned out was rubbish. Their only good 4-6-0s were the Rivers. I dread to think what sort of performance their pacifics or 2-8-0 would've had.

 

Possibly a bit strong but there did seem to be a fundamental problem in enlarging the Scottish 4-4-0 to an effective 4-6-0, as everyone on the LSWR except the great Dugald Drummond discovered. But early 20th century struggles with the 4-6-0 weren't confined to the Scottish school - Hughes' L&Y/LNWR/LMS 4-6-0s weren't in the top class either; difficult to understand when he was responsible for such a successful design as the 2-6-0 'Crabs'. There were some successes - Manson's engines for the GSWR for example; I believe there were also some moderately successful types on the other west-country line...

[Flying Pig]

I saw a pre WW1 L&Y drawing for a 2-10-0 but can't remember where ...

Someone built an L&Y 2-10-0 on a Hornby 9F chassis back in the 1970s and wrote it up in the late lamented Model Railway Constructor. It was a good model and a very impressive beast, based heavily on the Belgian Type 36.

 

Mike Edge's Lanky 0-6-6-0 Mallet has already been mentioned in this thread of course.

[DavidB-AU]

Something doesn't look quite right about the double 91..... could make it uglier by doing it as a double blunt-end 91!

You're right!

 

 

Cheers

David

[Suzie]

As a freight loco should the double blunt 91 not have Co-Co bogies to go with its lower gearing?

[micknich2003]

Someone built an L&Y 2-10-0 on a Hornby 9F chassis back in the 1970s and wrote it up in the late lamented Model Railway Constructor. It was a good model and a very impressive beast, based heavily on the Belgian Type 36.

 

Mike Edge's Lanky 0-6-6-0 Mallet has already been mentioned in this thread of course.

It was the late Dennis Alenden, the article(s) were in Model Railway (News).

[cheesysmith]

A hypothetical second generation HST.

 

HST2.jpg

 

Cheers

David

Actually, depending on what the payload capacity of the mk3 & mk4 DVT is, this could actually work.

 

Never mind they are fitting a DVT with hydrostatic drive system at the moment as a experiment .Of course, it takes the new, modern, dynamic and very expensive railway to do new thing like this. After all, BR was inefficient, dull, stuck in the past nationalised monopoly (test coach hydra anyone?).

[melmerby]

Very interesting indeed:

 

 

 

That GWR Mogul looks a bit like Swindon saying "Unlike other inferior companies this is how the GWR would not do" it after having introduced the 43XX as part of Churchward's standardisation scheme some 6 years earlier.

 

Mind you apart from the Walschaerts gear several other things had already been tried

e.g. Large round top boiler - Earl Cawdor, Ramsbottom safety valve - Waterford

 

Keith

Edited October 7, 2017 by melmerby

[runs as required]

Very interesting indeed:

 

 

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Caledonian also designed a 2-8-0 and two Pacifics.....

The diagram I find perplexing is the 1917 Horwich Crab 2-6-0.

Considering how many Hughes characteristics went into the design of the post grouping Crab that were already plain to see in the last coupe of decades of the L&Y, the 1917 diagram looks out of place.

I see ES Cox entered Horwich as an apprentice in 1917, but there nothing mentioned in Ch 1 of his first volume.

dh

[The Johnster]

These are drawings prepared as proposals for ARLE, which was an attempt to establish a national standard series of locos for ease of production during the First World War.   Each company that was involved seems to have simply submitted a basic, watered down, version of what it already had and you get the sense that these were not intended for production in the forms shown here, but as general concepts for approval and further work.

 

Something very like them did actually appear in the form of the SECR designed Maunsell 'Woolwich' locos which were the basis of mixed traffic work on that railway and the Southern post-grouping, and also surfaced in the form of moguls for the GSR in Ireland and 2-6-4T for the Metropolitan.  

[Compound2632]

These are drawings prepared as proposals for ARLE, which was an attempt to establish a national standard series of locos for ease of production during the First World War.   Each company that was involved seems to have simply submitted a basic, watered down, version of what it already had and you get the sense that these were not intended for production in the forms shown here, but as general concepts for approval and further work.

 

Something very like them did actually appear in the form of the SECR designed Maunsell 'Woolwich' locos which were the basis of mixed traffic work on that railway and the Southern post-grouping, and also surfaced in the form of moguls for the GSR in Ireland and 2-6-4T for the Metropolitan.  

 

Indeed the MGWR's moguls were built from Woolwich kits assembled at Broadstone works - straddling the Irish grouping; I think they may have been the last engines assembled at Broadstone.

 

The ARLE's work was not without precedent, as at the beginning of the century the British Engineering Standards Committee had produced a series of standard designs for India. These included the classic 4-4-0 and 0-6-0 designs - I believe it was the superheated versions of these that survived until relatively recent times in Pakistan - but also a 2-6-4T, well in advance of British use of this wheel arrangement.

 

EDIT to correct link to Vulcan Foundry Indian Standard Class SPS 4-4-0 (the superheated version)

Edited October 7, 2017 by Compound2632

[runs as required]

They may all be schemes for ARLE standards but they also have very much their home railway's look especially the Churchward, the Caley and the Derby loco - in terms of boilers, cabs and footplating