American 3-rail O, coarse scale

[rockershovel]

54 minutes ago, mervyn said:

Yes thanks for that . I did buy a Lionel hall and reverse engineered it to run on dc so might do that to the "American" Loco when it appears !

 

Oh really? Tell me more.. was it difficult? Do the whistle etc work now? Does it reverse from the transformer now? 

I’m much tempted to get the Hudson converted to 12v DC, it would look super at “running days” with the rake of long orange-and-silver coaches, but I WOULD like the whistle to work...

 

[Nearholmer]

The Halls have a permag DC motor, as I think do the other modern Lionel items, with a rectifier in the loco, along with other electronics which vary according to whether it is Lionchief-fitted or not. By ripping the rectifier out, they become straight DC locos like European ones.

 

Older (than what date I don’t know) locos have wound-field motors, which can also be made to remote reverse from DC using the circuit that Fred posted in my thread yesterday, i.e. a rectifier in either (not both) of the field or armature circuit.

 

Whistles I don’t know about!

Edited November 6, 2019 by Nearholmer

[rockershovel]

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The Halls have a permag DC motor, as I think do the other modern Lionel items, with a rectifier in the loco, along with other electronics which vary according to whether it is Lionchief-fitted or not. By ripping the rectifier out, they become straight DC locos like European ones.

 

Older (than what date I don’t know) locos have wound-field motors, which can also be made to remote reverse from DC using the circuit that Fred posted in my thread yesterday, i.e. a rectifier in either (not both) of the field or armature circuit.

 

Whistles I don’t know about!

 

The Hudson certainly has a can type motor. From a thread on the OGRR forum, my best conclusion is that it could be easily converted to conventional DC, by simply wiring the wheels to one side of the motor, and collection skate to the other. 

 

I’ve also seen a general suggestion about removing the tender electronics, and substituting a speaker and Bluetooth link, to connect to a library of sounds controlled by an iPad or smartphone. 

 

I’m sure all these things are feasible, but I’ll just shelve the question for now. The Berkshire ran fine at NAROGG and the Scout is in form now, I’ll just go with that for the time being. 

 

[Nearholmer]

Now, I knew that some US model train cars were very strange indeed, but this one could win awards, although possibly not for good taste http://www.legacykline.com/apps/kl/catalog.html?useraction=road&p_road_name=Unknown&p_oem_sku=K707-8012

 

According to an ad for one on Ebay currently, the figures circulate the car "in cops and robbers" mode.

[GRASinBothell]

That URL gives me an error 404.

Was it the gondola with a policeman chasing a criminal?

There are a lot of "novelty" cars with someone chasing someone else round it.

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

It has President Clinton sitting astride some sort of bomb/missile thing, chasing Osama Bin Laden seated on a flying carpet, round a large plastic sand dune.

 

On a flat car.

 

Talk about eating cheese before bedtime.

 

(the link works from here)

[GRASinBothell]

Thanks. It proved fairly elusive until I found a picture that showed the K-line reference number, and then searching for that reference number found a bunch of examples. He seems to be sitting on a Patriot missile. Is it really meant to be President Clinton? Surely Operation Enduring Freedom was after his time.

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Yes, maybe it's President Bush; certainly didn't look much like President Obama to me.

 

My ignorance is great, and I had to look-up 'Operation Enduring Freedom', not having heard the term; the same thing goes by other names here.

[GRASinBothell]

I only "remembered" it by seeing it in the description of the freight car!

Gordon

[rockershovel]

I’d imagine that the white Stetson is a reference to George Dubya Bush, who would have been POTUS at the time. The Bill Clinton version probably showed him chasing an intern? 

 

American politics is... not like ours. I have, somewhere in my desk, a bumper sticker dating from Clinton’s second election, along the lines of “Vote Clinton, and keep him out of Arkansas”. In one if his chat show appearances, the host opened with references to his home state, depicting it as something between Hazzard County and Dogpatch, to which Clinton smiled and replied “...and your point would be?”

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

Much tinkering with track over the weekend. I’ve experimented with various shapes, sorted out the best of the track and (by cutting in a section to fit, in one place) managed to pass two trains in the two running loops. I’m now awaiting the arrival of some additional points, to install a reversing loop. 

 

I think I’m just about at the limits of what can be done in the space (6”6” x 3’). 8’ x 4’ would give a lot more scope. 

 

[rockershovel]

Lionel tubular track certainly teaches you a lot about voltage drop! Large, heavy locos drawing quite a lot of power, especially the older ones, with another motor in the tender to power the whistle... 

 

I’m now finalising the track layout for the “door” layout. I’ve got some more points (switches) and some NOS straights and UCS on their way, so it’s time to firm things up, I think. Get it running nicely, find out how the accessories work. 

 

The smoke unit seems to be defunct on the 4-4-2. I’m not much concerned about this, because I don’t generally use it and it has no off switch... the old Scout is running nicely, although the reverse is hors de combat. I’ll worry about this another time. 

 

The modern 0-8-0 has departed again, via eBay. Nice thing but I don’t really have a use for it, as it turns out. 

 

I’ve decided to focus on O27 stock, plus the TCA orange-and-silver Coaches because they look so nice at running days. I've got the 24xx coach set, several tank cars, a gondola, a hopper car, a modern boxcar small enough to fit in, plus a caboose. There’s another modern caboose which is a bit large, but it’s a nice piece, and it suits the two coal dump cars. 

 

The Hudson is off to a local specialist for a switch to give a “run on 12v DC” mode. That will allow traction on 12v DC, plus the original features on 20v AC, which I think is sufficient for the purpose. 

 

I have to buy some small small screws for track fixing. 

 

Press on! 

Edited November 14, 2019 by rockershovel

[Hroth]

On 06/11/2019 at 22:30, Nearholmer said:

Now, I knew that some US model train cars were very strange indeed, but this one could win awards, although possibly not for good taste http://www.legacykline.com/apps/kl/catalog.html?useraction=road&p_road_name=Unknown&p_oem_sku=K707-8012

 

According to an ad for one on Ebay currently, the figures circulate the car "in cops and robbers" mode.

 

Reminds me of the ending scenes from Dr Strangelove, with the American pilot riding his bomb down to the target...  Not a happy result for anyone!

 

 

 

[rockershovel]

After various experimentation, and reading the comments about historic tinplate sizes in other related threads,  I have concluded that O27 is designed specifically to be a “tabletop size” - the difference in what is possible between O27 and 031 is considerable! 

[rockershovel]

Saw this on eBay and couldn’t resist it. It’s a Williams brass USRA Pacific, dating from the late 80s or early 90s as far as can be told. 

 

Runs nicely on the rolling road, on first inspection. More on this later!

 

[Metropolitan H]

Will the Williams USRA Pacific be seen at NAR0GG on Monday 25th November - its at Harrington Village Hall?

 

Regards

Chris H

[rockershovel]

13 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

Will the Williams USRA Pacific be seen at NAR0GG on Monday 25th November - its at Harrington Village Hall?

 

Regards

Chris H

 

‘Fraid not, on present work and family commitments. When is the next one? February? 

 

I hope to have the K Line Hudson there as well, I’ve sent if off for rewiring to improve the (rather crude) sound system and most importantly, include the on/off switch. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Just having a relaxing half-hour watching the trains go round... I’ve spent a little while sorting out some issues with the Williams loco, letting it have a run to warm up thoroughly now. The reversing unit now emits a loud, satisfying “clunk” ....

 

Coach is one of the Lionel TCA 40th Anniversary set, looks like there is a dirty track joint over by the high chair!  

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5tdv34faa1o18f/Video 25-11-2019%2C 10 07 42.mov?dl=0

Edited November 25, 2019 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Ok, I think I’ve got the various scales sorted out now.... leaving aside the pre-War, and tinplate stuff it seems to be like this;

 

O27 = approximately 1:53 scale, rolling stock typically under-length, some larger prototypes (eg Big Boy, Challenger locos) rendered in 1:55 or even 1:58. 32mm Gauge, minimum diameter 27”. O27 track tinplate, tubular rails, is somewhat smaller and lighter than O31 track (personally, I think it looks better). Confusingly, O27 type track can be found in diameters up to 72”...

 

O31 = approximately 1:50 or so, tinplate tubular rails, rolling stock typically under-length, although not as much as O27. 32mm Gauge, minimum diameter 31”. Sometimes referred to as “semi-scale” or “traditional size”. Most of my acquired stock is this size, although the Berkshire 2-8-4 is noticeably underscale compared to the Pacific - which in turn appears to be a full, 1:48 size model of a relatively small prototype with “O31” type wheels, as does the “Hudson” 4-6-4

 

O Scale = Full size 1:48 scale, 32mm Gauge, running on solid nickel-silver or Steel rails. Wheel flanges are Scale profile. 

 

I wouldn’t be dogmatic about any of this, because it all seems to be applied fairly inconsistently, but that’s about it 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by rockershovel

[GRASinBothell]

I can't say I've ever come across the use of the term "O-31", except to describe the diameter of curved track over here. In adverts, the shorter-than-scale-length locomotives and cars are sometimes described as "semi-scale". I thought they were 1/48 scale, with selective compression.

Gordon

[sncf231e]

51 minutes ago, GRASinBothell said:

I can't say I've ever come across the use of the term "O-31", except to describe the diameter of curved track over here. In adverts, the shorter-than-scale-length locomotives and cars are sometimes described as "semi-scale". I thought they were 1/48 scale, with selective compression.

Gordon

O-31 indeed is only used a a diameter description, not as a (right or wrong) scale. Apart of semi-scale (a funny terminology) I have seen: "Traditional sized" as a scale term.

Regards

Fred

[rockershovel]

On 25/11/2019 at 17:54, sncf231e said:

O-31 indeed is only used a a diameter description, not as a (right or wrong) scale. Apart of semi-scale (a funny terminology) I have seen: "Traditional sized" as a scale term.

Regards

Fred

 

O31 is basically a Lionel catalogue term denoting the heavyweight tinplate track, 31” diameter circle. ”O(whatever)” seems to be used as a generic term denoting the curve, as in “Fastrack O72 switches”

 

“Traditional size” denotes “bigger than O27 but not full scale”. I’ll put up some pictures to demonstrate this, but broadly speaking it seems to be analogous to the short Tri-Ang coaches of the 60s and 70s. Bear in mind that a lot of Lionel locos from the 40s, 50s and 60s are pretty generic, using variations of common body shells and/or mechanisms - again, like Tri-Ang. 

 

The loading gauges of O27, “traditional” and “scale” are visibly different. 

 

To further muddy the waters, “Scale” and “semi-Scale” are sometimes used to denote levels of detail, like the present Hornby ranges. 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Rocker

 

You missed a pre-war Lionel loco for sale at Narogg on Monday - a greyish coloured 2-4-2 with a 12W Vanderbilt tender.

 

in need of TLC including repairs to cylinders and valve-gear, but overall VG for the price of £110. It was running round the track at one stage - annoying whistle in full cry.

 

if you are interested, PM me and I will give you contact details of the owner.

 

K

[Mark Carne]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Rocker

 

You missed a pre-war Lionel loco for sale at Narogg on Monday - a greyish coloured 2-4-2 with a 12W Vanderbilt tender.

 

in need of TLC including repairs to cylinders and valve-gear, but overall VG for the price of £110. It was running round the track at one stage - annoying whistle in full cry.

 

if you are interested, PM me and I will give you contact details of the owner.

 

K

 

If by any chance Rockershovel isn't interested, would you be kind enough to pass on the details to me please?

 

Cheers, Mark

[Nearholmer]

Rocker

 

The PM system seems to be very flaky, so herewith contact details for Bruce, who s acting as agent for the sale of the Lionel.

 

Its from a public domain source, so I’m not breaching any protocol.

 

Kevin