Homologator Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Hello, Before I make a fool of myself (well bigger than I am already) thought I should check if: A/ Anyone had built one? B/ Anyone had advice on the kit? C/ Any other useful information. Regards David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cane Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 If you are looking for prototype information to aid the build then Model Railway Journal Issues 35 and 36 have a Ian Rice expose on all the various differences and very detailed drawings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Back when this was a Wills kit, and came up as the next class I fancied having a go at, I had a fair amount of whitemetal kit experience and could see the immediate problem. With scale for 4' diameter wheels in, consider how these are going to fit under a solid whitemetal footplate with its top just over four feet above rail top. This is a prototype for a plastic body, oh yes. I expect the current kit is better, but this problem remains. (The 'special chassis kit' then available for this kit was basic, very, and designed to take the K's mk2 motor, which I already knew to be complete junk. Wills solved 'the problem' by then bringing out a revised N7 kit which was so much better and could take a RTR chassis block with an effective and reliable motor to fit available.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Bird Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I have two these. One is an assembled shell waiting for a chassis. The other has the original whitemetal chassis with a Tri-ang X04, old technology but utterly reliable and easily replaced should the need arise. The X04 drives on the rear axle and doesn't intrude into the cab. The kit makes up into a good representation of the locomotive but reference to photographs is recommended. The RCTS series "Locomotives of the LNER", volume 8A contains lots of information. As mentioned above, the K's motor is a nightmare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homologator Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Hello, Thanks for the replies, it sounds a bit of a mixed blessing. I did look at the Brass kit but the amount of folding and soldering frankly puts me off. I'm an "Airfix" man! solvent has no fears for me! I understand the SEF kit can be assembled with super glue or epoxy. Did you Gents make your own locos? if so what method did you use please? On the subject of chassis would the Bachmann J72 chassis fit? Kind regards David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Solder assembled white metal kits. Until I was instructed in the availability of low melt solder and the associated technique, it was my Pa's ancient irons and regular electrical rosin cored solder (he was an electronics engineer so the kit was available) and I still have a good number of whitemetal kits (locos, wagons, bogies) successfully assembled this way. Quite how, I now don't know... 11 minutes ago, Homologator said: On the subject of chassis would the Bachmann J72 chassis fit? The J72 is the closest usable model that has been available, and not just the mechanism. A little chopping of the body and some polystyrene overlays produces a reasonable lookee-likee J67/69 model. The problem with the mechanism is that it is split chassis, and built to a width to be a snug fit inside a thin plastic moulded body. Casing this with an all metal body is something I wouldn't even consider. Bachmann are about to release a new J72, with a conventional mechanism, likely to be rather more conversion friendly. Consideration might be given to the Hattons P class and new Hornby Terrier mechanisms, which classes had 3'9" and 4' diameter wheels respectively. Personally I am staying with my homebrew conversion until a RTR OO model appears, bound to come along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I have not built one of these kits yet, but I bought an old Wills kit some time back with a cast chassis, Romford wheels motor and gears. Subsequently I have bought a Southeastern etched chassis I always thought the Wills kits were on the better quality side of whitemetal kits. Most are a pleasure to build. Dave Ellis at Southeastern Finecast has taken the range to another level Firstly this is one of the revised kits where better chassis and additional details have been added Secondly the quality of both the castings and the materials has improved Thirdly these is now a bespoke etched chassis This is the etched chassis. Its one of the easier to build, as well as the etched spaces having tabs at each end there are screw in frame spacers. Additional details are the brake gear, wheel balance weights, coal rails and can be made as either a rigid or compensated/sprung chassis, should be quite easy to build. I would strongly recommend the use of a gearbox rather than a motor mount, only a couple of £'s extra but well worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 33 minutes ago, Homologator said: Hello, Thanks for the replies, it sounds a bit of a mixed blessing. I did look at the Brass kit but the amount of folding and soldering frankly puts me off. I'm an "Airfix" man! solvent has no fears for me! I understand the SEF kit can be assembled with super glue or epoxy. Did you Gents make your own locos? if so what method did you use please? On the subject of chassis would the Bachmann J72 chassis fit? Kind regards David. David You can build these using glue, normally for the best results two part epoxy. I would steer away from cheap super glue. I have had good results from both industrial grade superglue and also Mitre bond (comes with an accerrelant) But I solder these together with 70 degree low melt solder for the main parts. 11 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: Solder assembled white metal kits. Until I was instructed in the availability of low melt solder and the associated technique, it was my Pa's ancient irons and regular electrical rosin cored solder (he was an electronics engineer so the kit was available) and I still have a good number of whitemetal kits (locos, wagons, bogies) successfully assembled this way. Quite how, I now don't know... The J72 is the closest usable model that has been available, and not just the mechanism. A little chopping of the body and some polystyrene overlays produces a reasonable lookee-likee J67/69 model. The problem with the mechanism is that it is split chassis, and built to a width to be a snug fit inside a thin plastic moulded body. Casing this with an all metal body is something I wouldn't even consider. Bachmann are about to release a new J72, with a conventional mechanism, likely to be rather more conversion friendly. Consideration might be given to the Hattons P class and new Hornby Terrier mechanisms, which classes had 3'9" and 4' diameter wheels respectively. Personally I am staying with my homebrew conversion until a RTR OO model appears, bound to come along. Agreed the old cast chassis are not the best but the etched chassis is on the simple side to build, Markit or Scalecraft wheels are easy to quarter, High Level gearboxes just fall together, plus I doubt if a RTR chassis would squeeze into the cast body. If you doubt your chassis building skills you could build it without brake gear first. At worst I am certain there would be plenty of help available on this site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homologator Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Hello, Thanks again, I take your point about the old Bachmann chassis, but at over £100 for the new release just to try to fit it to a kit seems a bit risky. Hadn't thought too much about body mods of a J72 into a J69! I think that might be feasible. As my accountant (Wife!) is muttering darkly about yule tide gifts, I think I might think hard about the SEF kit and give the brass chassis a try. Kind regards David. P.S. is there any info on the soldering method you mention? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 David Until last weekend I used an Antex 25 watt iron, using Carrs 70 degree solder and carrs red liquid flux or London Road Models Phosflux 12 Keep the soldering iron away from small parts, superglue usually is the best method The best tip I was given on soldering whitemetal is to hold the join together, put flux on the joint quite liberally, put a small piece of solder into the join then take a hot iron to the join going in and out as quickly as possible, much better to go in again than risk damaging the parts. Its a knac you quickly get used to Don't put the solder on to the iron first, as the chemicals that allow the solder to flow easily will have burnt away before you get to the work Your iron always needs to be hotter than the solders melting point, and the bigger the parts are the more power you will need, as the parts will act as a heat sink. On the other hand the smaller the parts the less heat you will need. I have a Antex 25 watt iron with different size tips (the bigger ones apply more heat for longer. I now have a temperature controlled 75 watt iron but that might confuse some Simply you need enough heat to allow the solder to fuse with the materials its joining, the main trick is to clean the parts to be joined with a glass fibre brush, use liquid flux, then use 70 degree solder The good thing about 70 degree solder is you can unsolder the parts in the steam from a kettle if needed without damaging the parts Do remove the solder from the tip of the iron on scrap fret if you intend to use normal solder next !! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Newer versions have a modern etched chassis, not the "one size fits all version". Nickel silver I think. I would avoid using an RTR chassis with it. I've no idea of what experience you have. But I would say it's very much a kit which is suitable for a determined beginner who can build Airfix kits and has built a few wagon kits. Not that many parts and no outside valve gear. Don't use glue. Low melt solder and flux with a low watt soldering iron of 15 to 25 watt is what you need. Antex 25 watt is recommended. A good guide to soldering can be found here. Aimed more at etched brass and O gauge, but most of it is relevant. http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Questions.html Pick up a copy of this if you do go down the kit building route. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whitemetal-Locos-Kitbuilders-Iain-Rice/dp/0906867770 The book on chassis is also worth getting. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Locomotive-kit-Chassis-Construction-4mm/dp/1874103100/ref=pd_sim_14_2/258-7584400-1973444?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1874103100&pd_rd_r=5cabbd7e-24ad-44ad-896e-b1b4d4d06f2c&pd_rd_w=QI379&pd_rd_wg=5fY4N&pf_rd_p=32ad4a08-4896-4172-a2ea-821c9be00310&pf_rd_r=WKQDGAKP9FFSZJVASPZK&psc=1&refRID=WKQDGAKP9FFSZJVASPZK For prototype information the RCTS book mentioned earlier and the relevant Yeadon's Register volume are recommended. Vol. 48: Classes J64, J65, J66, J67, J68, J69, J70 & J92 https://www.booklaw.co.uk/shop/index.php?id_product=176&controller=product Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homologator Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Hello, Thanks for all the feedback. Kind regards David. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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