Speeding ticket heads up

[alastairq]

I used to tell student that ...if they ever found themselves [incorrectly or not] driving down through a 7.5t weight limit, they were either [a] on their way to deliver at so-&-so, or, have just delivered ditto....

One favourite road I used to use [for training] suddenly acquired a weight limit, but had a wood yard half way along....

Never ever stopped, but if so, the puzzlement would be, why would a convoy of large military lorries be going to one wood yard??

 

NArrow [relatively for a lorry] roads were excellent training for drivers who would have to cope with such roads with large vehicles [major routes often being denied to them]...weight limits mostly being imposed to reduce LGV shortcutting.......keeping lorries away from nice  properties.

Edited November 25, 2019 by alastairq
software decided it wanted to shout

[alastairq]

Where the 'lack-of-respect rears its ugly head, is in the failure to understand  a primary reason for speed limits...especially those at the lower end of the scale.

 

A speed limit [especially something like a 20 mph limit]......isn't aimed at restricting the individual driver.

They are there to show consideration for all the other folk around and about,who live there, or rightly want to use the road/street..as road users, within the community. A reduced limit allows a pedestrian more time to cross safely...especially if their view up or down a road is restricted [buildings, etc].....Same with those wishing to exit side roads, driveways, etc.

 

Plus, even at 20 mph, a driver ought to be able to stop safely and comfortably within the reduced distance seen to be clear ahead.  Much more comfortably than if they were at the other limit, of 30 mph.

 

It's really about giving everybody in the vicinity, time!

They're also about improving the quality of life of those who  happen to live in close proximity to what has, over recent times, probably become a nightmare road with increased volumes of high speed [inconsiderate??] traffic.

The lack of respect comes from drivers failure to consider the impact they & their vehicle...doing what they want to do...has on other folk...whether those folk are active road users or not.

Keep death off the roads.......restrict it to the motorways!!

Edited November 25, 2019 by alastairq

[jonny777]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Any respect earned of speed limits and what they are for gets lost when you travel down the M6 from the M54 to the M5 junction.

It has been converted to "Dumb  sorry Smart Motorway" and I have been down it many times since it was complete.

I've been down in atrocious weather, perfect weather, heavy traffic and almost deserted.

In every case the speed limit signs have been set to 60.

You get the feeling that some numpty has switched the limit on but no-one will take responsibilty to switch it off.

 

Yes, I have the feeling that the same applies on the M4/M5 around Almondsbury. I was passing there late afternoon yesterday; Sunday in Autumn and not much traffic about and yet the 60mph overhead signs were lit until after Cribbs Causeway southbound. They seem to go lower when traffic is heavy, but I can't remember seeing them off altogether in that area for months. 

 

I suppose it may slow the driving psychopaths down, so it is probably a good thing. 

[alastairq]

Is it done in order to reduce the likelihood of traffic coming to a standstill due to bunching?  Or overtly heavy braking?  Which In itself leads to traffic coming to a standstill? [for no reason]...

Something to do with the 'speed' the brake lights advance towards the CCTV ? If traffic speed are too fast, then the brake lights advance too quickly, and traffic subsequently comes to a halt further back down the road.

 

[eastglosmog]

46 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I used to tell student that ...if they ever found themselves [incorrectly or not] driving down through a 7.5t weight limit, they were either [a] on their way to deliver at so-&-so, or, have just delivered ditto....

One favourite road I used to use [for training] suddenly acquired a weight limit, but had a wood yard half way along....

Never ever stopped, but if so, the puzzlement would be, why would a convoy of large military lorries be going to one wood yard??

 

NArrow [relatively for a lorry] roads were excellent training for drivers who would have to cope with such roads with large vehicles [major routes often being denied to them]...weight limits mostly being imposed to reduce LGV shortcutting.......keeping lorries away from nice  properties.

If you or your students tried anything like that on our local road, the locals would report you (we are quite vigilant).  Our weight limit is there for a very good reason - the bridge foundations are in a poor state (ever since the floods of 2007) and you run the risk of ending up in the river if you try crossing with overweight vehicles.  You would be extremely unpopular with Great Western and all the commuters for cutting off access to the station.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

 

Yes, I have the feeling that the same applies on the M4/M5 around Almondsbury. I was passing there late afternoon yesterday; Sunday in Autumn and not much traffic about and yet the 60mph overhead signs were lit until after Cribbs Causeway southbound. They seem to go lower when traffic is heavy, but I can't remember seeing them off altogether in that area for months. 

 

I suppose it may slow the driving psychopaths down, so it is probably a good thing. 

They were off yesterday morning going  east/north at about 09:00.........but yes, on @60mph  coming back at about 16:00........traffic quite light both directions.

Edited November 25, 2019 by boxbrownie

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, eastglosmog said:

If you or your students tried anything like that on our local road, the locals would report you (we are quite vigilant).  Our weight limit is there for a very good reason - the bridge foundations are in a poor state (ever since the floods of 2007) and you run the risk of ending up in the river if you try crossing with overweight vehicles.  You would be extremely unpopular with Great Western and all the commuters for cutting off access to the station.

 

As rather tragically happened last week in France...

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, eastglosmog said:

If you or your students tried anything like that on our local road, the locals would report you (we are quite vigilant).  Our weight limit is there for a very good reason - the bridge foundations are in a poor state (ever since the floods of 2007) and you run the risk of ending up in the river if you try crossing with overweight vehicles.  You would be extremely unpopular with Great Western and all the commuters for cutting off access to the station.

 Weak[ened] bridges will [or should?] have their own weight limits posted at the bridge itself.  {The 7.5 tonne weight limit refers to the vehicle's MAM [or GVW as used to be]......not the weight it actually weighs, at that point in time.

Most 7.5 tonne weight limits are imposed to restrict passage of LGV's [over 7.5 tonne MAM] over certain roads...for social/environmental reasons.....which is why the regulation specifies unless access to & from is required.  Which means...if accessing a point within that weight limit, for loading or unloading purposes, then it's OK to pass with a LGV [which  is, by definition, 7.5 tonne MAM or above].......If there is a weak spot on the road, then max axle weights, or max permitted weight orders are in force, and no-one heavier may proceed.  All of which is a very different kettle of fish.] 

 

A bus [full size, not twiddly types]...may enter a 7.5 tonne weight limit, as it refer to goods vehicles....But if the weight restriction is for structural reasons, the heavy bus is forbidden as well....[a double deck bus may well weigh close to 20 tonnes if fully loaded]

 

For my purposes? It was the best route to take to a certain car park & cafe.......

[MJI]

M42 is bonkers, speed limits flashing up and changing just before you get there.

 

On way back was 60 so got to 60 and shoved cruise on.

 

Stayed 58-62 until 70 limit, seems to only correct if it goes out by 2mph.

 

J3 was badly signed, nothing but 50 limit signs and no cones, nor any sign of issue.

 

A limit nearer J3 and queues warning may have stopped road users from not slowing down. I was glad I was not tanking as L1 was suddenly jammed.

[BoD]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

J3 was badly signed, nothing but 50 limit signs and no cones, nor any sign of issue.

 

I've only occasionally been on a smart motorway (there aren't any round here) but isn't it the idea that you met no issues because the variable speed limits held you back.

Perhaps 70mph would have got you through no problem too, as I said I don't know these smart motorways are supposed to work.

[Reorte]

21 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

I've only occasionally been on a smart motorway (there aren't any round here) but isn't it the idea that you met no issues because the variable speed limits held you back.

Perhaps 70mph would have got you through no problem too, as I said I don't know these smart motorways are supposed to work.

 

That's the idea behind it. I'm not sure what the exact mechanism is but a motorway at close to capacity will be able to get a bit more traffic through if the speed is lowered. Could be because that reduces speed differentials between vehicle types, or simply because it reduces braking (one car tapping on the brakes can ripple back through with increased effect), which I guess is a related phenomena and the cause of phantom queues. An analogy - people jostling down a corridor keep jamming together, the same number of soldiers marching down it will move much more evenly and get through faster (which straying even further away from the point has implications for emergency evacuations).

[Legend]

2 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

That's the idea behind it. I'm not sure what the exact mechanism is but a motorway at close to capacity will be able to get a bit more traffic through if the speed is lowered. Could be because that reduces speed differentials between vehicle types, or simply because it reduces braking (one car tapping on the brakes can ripple back through with increased effect), which I guess is a related phenomena and the cause of phantom queues. An analogy - people jostling down a corridor keep jamming together, the same number of soldiers marching down it will move much more evenly and get through faster (which straying even further away from the point has implications for emergency evacuations).

 

I really dont get this though. I see it on the M4 around Newport where invariably the signs are up for 50mph through the tunnels . I think this may be for pollution prevention .  But all that happens is that traffic that was moving at 70mph (and more in a lot of cases) just bunches up at High Cross , so you get the same effect , just further out .

[Reorte]

If it's for pollution controls then it's a different phenomena than trying to get the most out of a road running at close to capacity. AIUI if it's not that near to capacity there's enough space for the jostling around to happen without jamming things up, so the higher speed means more traffic is going through. So a reduction then will cause queues because it creates a drop in capacity. But when the road gets close to full marching in order gets more through than a mix of faster, slower, causing other people to brake (or even drop off to open sufficient space) etc. There are limits to even that though, too much traffic and a road will grind to a halt regardless.

 

Also important is the impact on joining traffic, which will cause kinks in otherwise free flows (there would probably be rather less congestion if traffic could join and leave from a junction in every lane, I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader about how to make that happen practically )

Edited November 26, 2019 by Reorte

[MJI]

1 hour ago, BoD said:

 

I've only occasionally been on a smart motorway (there aren't any round here) but isn't it the idea that you met no issues because the variable speed limits held you back.

Perhaps 70mph would have got you through no problem too, as I said I don't know these smart motorways are supposed to work.

 

J3 is out of smart section

[teaky]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

 

J3 is out of smart section

The roadworks at J3 are on the roundabout above the M42.  At peak times the queues trail back down onto the M42 and clog the inside lane.  The reduced speed limit is for safety.

 

It is a pity they couldn't have found a solution that only operated at peak times but they don't appear to have bothered and a lower limit all the time seems safer than none.  It is a PITA though when you're passing through late at night when traffic is light.

[The Johnster]

Roll on the day when the speed of all vehicles on public highways is controlled by gps to whatever is appropriate to the location, and to traffic and visibility conditions.  It’s coming, as are autonomous vehicles, and you’ve only got yourselves collectively to blame for being collectively bad boys and girls in the past. 

 

And before you all start moaning, you’ll be able to go as fast as you like when the road is quiet and conditions allow!

[Reorte]

36 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Roll on the day when the speed of all vehicles on public highways is controlled by gps to whatever is appropriate to the location, and to traffic and visibility conditions.  It’s coming, as are autonomous vehicles, and you’ve only got yourselves collectively to blame for being collectively bad boys and girls in the past. 

 

And before you all start moaning, you’ll be able to go as fast as you like when the road is quiet and conditions allow!

Sure, I don't want to be killed by an irresponsible lunatic behind the wheel but I'd prefer to take my chances than live in that sort of world. Unfortunately I don't have that choice.

 

I don't particularly want to go fast. I do want to not have machines do every damned little task for me because some people can't be trusted.

[MJI]

17 hours ago, teaky said:

The roadworks at J3 are on the roundabout above the M42.  At peak times the queues trail back down onto the M42 and clog the inside lane.  The reduced speed limit is for safety.

 

It is a pity they couldn't have found a solution that only operated at peak times but they don't appear to have bothered and a lower limit all the time seems safer than none.  It is a PITA though when you're passing through late at night when traffic is light.

 

Could have done with queues likely warning.

 

May have slowed down some of the people hurtling past me around 80