Shawplan Laser Cut Windows Update 19/06/10

[PMP]

Andy has kindly allowed me the opportunity of a 'news' release on some prototype products that Brian at Shawplan has been working on. Yesterday I worked through the Hornby 08/09 and the pictures below show the progress so far. They are almost at production/release stage together with a set for the Bachmann Class 24. If all goes well they may be available at Railex

 

Hornby 08/09

The 08/09 set is for the latest release and specifically fits the Hornby model. What we have found with the accuracy of the production is that aperatures for the cab windows are not all identical, if only by a fraction of a millimeter or so. This has led to the 08/09 set being 'handed' with cabside windows for offside and nearside, (looking from cab to radiator). Hornby does a dropped window for their cab, there are options with Shawplan for closed both sides, or open both sides, with windows at slightly different heights in the frame, the metal top strip is engraved on the open windows. The images here are of the fully closed windows in position.

 

Bachmann 24

The other set which is again at final prototype stage is the Bachmann Class 24. This again is specifically for the Bachmann model. Again there are very subtle differences in window shape/size, and to get an absolutely perfect fit some very minor sanding of window edges or aperatures may be required. The only bodies these have been fitted to so far are the current BR Green, and BR Blue class 24 bodies. They should also fit a Class 25/1 and class 25/2 from the Bachmann stable, but those have yet to be tested. The set shown here is not the final production. The cabside droplight and front quarterlight are marked with an engraved line that can be used for paint or microstrip application.

 

Images: Top two are replacement sets.

Image 3 Hornby at Front showing thickness and light refraction at window edges.

Image 4 Shawplan at front / Hornby at rear

[iak]

Are we allowed to dribble yet?

Hmmmm very tasty looking

[craigwelsh]

Is it glass or plastic used in these Paul?

[Horsetan]

I wonder if it is possible to use real glass from microscope slides, etc.

[James Hilton]

These look great - what thickness is the plastic used?

[MickD]

Hi PMP,

 

Thanks for the update on this,I will certainly be interested in a few sets of these,both the 08 & 24/25.

how will you be marketing them??(hopefully mail-order).

 

MickD.

[craigwelsh]

I wonder if it is possible to use real glass from microscope slides, etc.

Yes it is possible to cut glass which is why I asked. I think this is slightly thicker though suggesting plastic. The droplight really shows how thick.

 

The multilayer paint on those wasp stripes was also an issue in that photo I see Paul! I've got a PO wagon where the original lettering shows through like that though its less of an issue in that case.

 

Hi PMP,

Thanks for the update on this,I will certainly be interested in a few sets of these,both the 08 & 24/25.

how will you be marketing them??(hopefully mail-order).

MickD.

They are Shawplan...

 

I need to ask Brian about military style paint masks now he has done these.

[Horsetan]

Yes it is possible to cut glass which is why I asked. I think this is slightly thicker though suggesting plastic. ....

 

I presume glass wouldn't give those distorted /prismatic effects that plastic does, though.

[BernardTPM]

I presume glass wouldn't give those distorted /prismatic effects that plastic does, though.

 

The prismatic effect is caused more by the thickness than the material.

[PMP]

The material is 0.5mm plastic. Prismatic effect is caused by the thickness, one of the prototypes I looked at yesterday used 3mm thick material, the clarity was excellent but at certain angles some evidence of the prismatic effect was apparent. Plastic is more practical than glass both in fitting to the model and lack of breakages. Not sure what the H&S safety implications and trading standards legislation would require of selling glass! These will be part of the Shawplan range, along with other types currently WIP (work in progress). I've already mentioned other uses of the technology, and its fair to say Brain is aware of those too.

[43179]

afternoon -

Lima 117 DMU glazing too -

 

 

 

tfn

 

jon

[griffgriff]

afternoon -

Lima 117 DMU glazing too -

 

 

 

tfn

 

jon

 

very nice to the power of ten!

[Pixie]

Very swish! I'll certainly take a couple of sets for my 08s and any other usable types that appear. There certainly has been some real revolutions in D&E detailing parts over the last few years and I'm hoping this is the dawn of another - it's certainly head and shoulders above the vac-formed stuff.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what's the process for producing these? Is it a case of draw it up in CAD to the required shape/size and sending it off to the cutters? I'm guessing there's a set of colours representing virgin, half etch and full etched as with drawing up metal etchings? I quite fancy having a go at doing some for the replacement 25/3 cab ends I'm working on.

 

Pix

[The Fatadder]

Reminds me that I must get the etched window frames fitted to my 150 so I can show off the new glazing fitted to that....

[craigwelsh]

If you don't mind me asking, what's the process for producing these? Is it a case of draw it up in CAD to the required shape/size and sending it off to the cutters? I'm guessing there's a set of colours representing virgin, half etch and full etched as with drawing up metal etchings? I quite fancy having a go at doing some for the replacement 25/3 cab ends I'm working on.

Pix

The lazer cutting works on lines instead of fills as per etching. You can adjust the width of the cut but it follows a line. Its been hard to get my head around for doing the mortar courses in brickwork but does mean i'll have all the 1/4 bricks in the correct place on my station building. There are some notes on the York Modelmaking website I think.

 

Btw the depth is variable and you could do multiple passes at different depths.

 

The material is 0.5mm plastic. Prismatic effect is caused by the thickness, one of the prototypes I looked at yesterday used 3mm thick material, the clarity was excellent but at certain angles some evidence of the prismatic effect was apparent. Plastic is more practical than glass both in fitting to the model and lack of breakages. Not sure what the H&S safety implications and trading standards legislation would require of selling glass! These will be part of the Shawplan range, along with other types currently WIP (work in progress). I've already mentioned other uses of the technology, and its fair to say Brain is aware of those too.

Nice Freudian slip on the name there .

 

I hadn't considered the issue with selling glass, I was going to use it in an etched coach but will look at his plastic work instead.

[iak]

I quite fancy having a go at doing some for the replacement 25/3 cab ends I'm working on.

 

Pix

 

Hmmmmmm

Now these windows and your ends makes an interesting combo....

[43179]

The prismatic effect is caused more by the thickness than the material.

 

 

The shape has more of a part to play than thickness for causing prisming - -

 

Look at a Heljan 58 alongside a Hornby 60 - the glazing on the Heljan 58 is very thick a good few mm infact , but its flat on its inside face - and so looks perfect. No distortion round the edges

On the Hornby 60 the glazing is very thin - but to achive this the inner face of the glazing is recessed - to overcome the thickness of the bodyshell at the window apeture - so youve got all these 90 degree angles moulded into the rear of the glazing material , causing internal reflections - and the prism effect. Not helped by Mr ###### in the factory putting glue all round the edges of the windows either

 

TFN

 

jon

[PMP]

This week I've had the opportunity to try the new glasing for the ViTrain Class 47, and heres a shot of the first set. Initial impressions are that these work very well, and that only minor adjustments will need to be made before production release. The most difficult part of this conversion is actually getting into the cab and removing the glasing in the first place. My two example having been 'thoroughly' glued in. Test windows are in all aperatures for the 'RES' livery, as supplied, L/L Blue.

 

Also back for test fitting (not yet trialled as far as I'm aware), is a set for the Heljan 47/57. Bachmann 47/57 replacements are also under way as part of a comprehensive range development over the summer period of the laser cut products.

[Guest Phil]

Fascinating "after market" products here and thanks to PMP for demo ing.

 

I have doubts about the Bachmann sulzer type two cab side windows PMP. I believe they are too narrow front to back and wonder whether Brians excellent product has been produced to the Bachmann dimensions, rather than true class 24 cab glazing. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong but feel that cabsides - after the "underframe" are the biggest thing to let the Sulzer type twos down.

 

How did you fix the "glass" in PMP - Johnsons Kleer ?

 

Thanks very much for sharing

 

 

PS

The class 47 has been taken to a new dimension with this glazing and only needs the gold film demister recreation - nigh on impossible I'd say.

[BernardTPM]

The shape has more of a part to play than thickness for causing prisming - -

 

Look at a Heljan 58 alongside a Hornby 60 - the glazing on the Heljan 58 is very thick a good few mm infact , but its flat on its inside face - and so looks perfect. No distortion round the edges

On the Hornby 60 the glazing is very thin - but to achive this the inner face of the glazing is recessed - to overcome the thickness of the bodyshell at the window apeture - so youve got all these 90 degree angles moulded into the rear of the glazing material , causing internal reflections - and the prism effect.

 

Ceteris paribus! Obviously having a change of shape on the back is going to cause distortion, but you wouldn't be laser cutting material that significantly varied in thickness would you? The problem with moulding thick glazing is that there is a greater tendency for it to shrink as it cools so the surfaces aren't flat. You can see this in Kitmaster coach windows, more and more so as you move away from the injection point. It's not that it can't be done (as Heljan have shown) but it just gets more difficult.

[PMP]

I have doubts about the Bachmann sulzer type two cab side windows PMP. I believe they are too narrow front to back and wonder whether Brians excellent product has been produced to the Bachmann dimensions, rather than true class 24 cab glazing. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong but feel that cabsides - after the "underframe" are the biggest thing to let the Sulzer type twos down.

 

 

I can confirm the 24 has been made to specifically fit the Bachmann model, I did the development work on them for myself originally as these are replacements for the existing transparencies, as mentioned in the original post, and this is how they are marketed. The remainder of the 25 family is under development at the moment. I also did the Hornby 08 and again these are specifically to fit the Hornby moulding.

 

The glazing on the Vi47 is not fixed as yet, but Klear or a thin wash of gloss varnish is sufficient. I'm working on the 'gold' effect at the moment, though it's likely it will be a compromise.

 

With all the glazing, some minor work is required to ensure the best fit. Re Bernie TPM's point above, the thickness we cut doesn't vary, and these, (above), have been done in 0.5mm. The prismatic effect can come into play if you cut much thicker material with a laser, in the form of a ghost image projected 'inside' the cab.

[Guest Max Stafford]

This glazing is the dog's danglies Paul. Are you still in the evaluation phase here or is Mr Shawplan going to be listing these soon? All I can see is the old SEF Flushglaze on his site. The original glazing on my Bachy 24/1 conversion looks pretty grim (due to clumsiness with the Maskol!)and this stuff would seriously lift it.

The 08 stuff looks top notch too. Is it specifically designed for the screamer or will it also do the Bachmann job - I run both!

 

Cheers.

 

Dave.

[PMP]

This glazing is the dog's danglies Paul. Are you still in the evaluation phase here or is Mr Shawplan going to be listing these soon? All I can see is the old SEF Flushglaze on his site. The original glazing on my Bachy 24/1 conversion looks pretty grim (due to clumsiness with the Maskol!)and this stuff would seriously lift it.

The 08 stuff looks top notch too. Is it specifically designed for the screamer or will it also do the Bachmann job - I run both!

 

Cheers.

 

Dave.

 

Dave, the 24 glazing will do 24's and 25/1's, using the Bachmann 24 as the 'donor' and a Brassmasters cab roof. The remaining 25 family is under way as there are some subtle variation amongst them, and we need to test fit to specific body moldings.

The 08 glazing will fit the latest Hornby releases of 08/09 'screamers'. I've yet to test fit one to a Bachmann cab but my gut feeling due to the fact the Hornby model has had to be 'handed' O/S+N/S is that they are unlikely to fit. The Bachmann 08/09 is another early candidate as they are so poplular, (and good). Both large and small cab side window variants of the Bachmann model are planned to be covered in due course with a specific to Bachmann 08/9 Glazing set. The Hornby came first as that was the version I needed as a priority for Railex and Demu. I'll try and get some better shots of both the 08 and 24 up here soon.

 

At Demu Brian had the final test 'shots' of the 24's and 08's with him. I have to speak to him this week so I'll try and get an idea of actual release/product numbers and price if they have been finalised. He also had a number of other goodies such as etched works plates and excellent windscreen wipers in final production. Its fair to say Brians also aware of raising the user friendliness of the website side of the empire too.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Thanks Paul, I forsee a number of sets being ordered when the time comes.

 

Dave.

[Guest Phil]

I can confirm the 24 has been made to specifically fit the Bachmann model, I did the development work on them for myself originally as these are replacements for the existing transparencies, as mentioned in the original post, and this is how they are marketed. The remainder of the 25 family is under development at the moment. I also did the Hornby 08 and again these are specifically to fit the Hornby moulding.

 

The glazing on the Vi47 is not fixed as yet, but Klear or a thin wash of gloss varnish is sufficient. I'm working on the 'gold' effect at the moment, though it's likely it will be a compromise.

 

With all the glazing, some minor work is required to ensure the best fit. Re Bernie TPM's point above, the thickness we cut doesn't vary, and these, (above), have been done in 0.5mm. The prismatic effect can come into play if you cut much thicker material with a laser, in the form of a ghost image projected 'inside' the cab.

 

 

Thanks very much Paul.

I'll be ordering some for my class 24s and will be watching with interest for the class 25s.

 

Great work and a very realistic product.

I'll just need to get my ham fists greased up !!!!