Scratch built lanky signal box

[Simon Moore]

Well it's been a while since I last posted anything in here & we'll this years not gone to plan!

 

I suffered a mental breakdown & gave up almost. A lot of the stuff got shifted on. Having come back to it one thing is for certain & thats I'm sticking with EM. P4 is to much hassle for me & whilst I can do it I have plenty of EM models so I am sticking to what I know best. 

 

I got the workshop cleaned up & straightened out so I could actually sit & make something. I cannot stand mess & clutter it drives me nuts & my workshop had become a dump. I got out my industrial kits & caught up where I was. Seems I have a number of projects on the go & I need to finish those off before I start new models. 

 

Primrose No2 was my main priority & I made a mess of the chassis so I ordered another kit so I can get the chassis from it & finish off what will be a lovely model. She's nearly there just needs the chassis putting together. An order from gibson turned up today so that models going to hopefully be a runner by weekend. 

 

In the meantime as I am waiting on the kit to come for Primrose I turned to the high level RSH 14inch which was a Christmas gift from my wife last year. I built the basic chassis in P4 perfectly however I now have the task of splitting the frames, cleaning them up & rebuilding it in EM. shouldn't cause to many problems when I do. I started the basic body & so I decided to carry on building the bodywork.

 

I like the high level kits but the instructions are a bit of a pain if I am honest & not my personal taste in the way they are done. 

 

I will post some pictures of them this week as I do them & hopefully this is a return to modelling once again. My goals to have both of these kits finished & running before Christmas then I can start something new at Christmas time when I get a week off. 

 

More to follow

[Simon Moore]

I took a couple of snaps last night of the RSH but for some reason it would not let me upload them. I've never had this trouble before but for some reason my phone was now taking images in a new format not compatible with rmweb. 

I'm a dinosaur with technology but I managed to sort it out & get it working & so the 2 images are just a couple of quickies this morning whilst having breakfast.

 

 

The roof & boiler castings are just plonked as are the buffers. It's starting to take shape slowly away. I know next time I do a high level loco kit I will follow the diagrams alone & not the written text as it is a bit confusing at times & I think some areas are skipped over. From what I have read the high level instructions are a bit like marmite.

 

If I get time this evening I would like to get the plumbing & handrails fitted to the saddle plus the castings. Not decided yet on the buffers I feel I may replace these with gibson ones I have in stock as I don't like white metal buffers. 

 

It's good to be enjoying building again, it's been a while.

 

Si

[Barclay]

It's good to see you back - modelling can be a great antidote to the pressures of life.

 

When I built mine (wow - nearly 25 years ago...) I thought that the cast buffers weren't really up to the amazing standard of the rest of the kit so I substituted sprung industrial buffers from Kean Maygib or Gibson. I would also recommend Narrow Planet etched builder's plates.

 

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Simon Moore said:

I took a couple of snaps last night of the RSH but for some reason it would not let me upload them. I've never had this trouble before but for some reason my phone was now taking images in a new format not compatible with rmweb. 

I'm a dinosaur with technology but I managed to sort it out & get it working & so the 2 images are just a couple of quickies this morning whilst having breakfast.

 

 

The roof & boiler castings are just plonked as are the buffers. It's starting to take shape slowly away. I know next time I do a high level loco kit I will follow the diagrams alone & not the written text as it is a bit confusing at times & I think some areas are skipped over. From what I have read the high level instructions are a bit like marmite.

 

If I get time this evening I would like to get the plumbing & handrails fitted to the saddle plus the castings. Not decided yet on the buffers I feel I may replace these with gibson ones I have in stock as I don't like white metal buffers. 

 

It's good to be enjoying building again, it's been a while.

 

Si

 

 

Simon

 

Its looking very good

[Simon Moore]

Thanks chaps for the kind comments. Slowly away its coming to life. I would like to finish this & primrose no2 before christmas. I have a week off at Christmas & I am having at least a couple of days in the workshop.

 

Whilst a freelance model I'm not sure whether to do it as an ex workington steelworks loco used at Whitehaven or one along the lines of the locos used at Seaham. Either way it's going to be black & covered in grime

[Simon Moore]

Well yesterday was a complete write off! I had planned another session on the RSH but a upset stomach & a bit of a bug put me straight to bed after I had finished work.

 

Thankfully I slept off what was bothering me & today I was feeling miles better & ready for a evening in the workshop. It turned out well as a couple of kits were waiting for me when I got home that I had ordered from Mike Edge. 

 

As one of the kits was for the replacement chassis for Primrose no2 I decided that was what I was doing tonight. 

 

Primrose no2 as it was before I started

 

 

A few week ago I decided to treat myself to a early Christmas present. I bought one of Phil Atkinsons chassis jigs. For years I have used a avonside chassis Pro & if I am perfectly honest from day one I have always fought with it. When I built 7mm for people I had a 7mm version off Phil & it was the best tool I ever owned. 

 

 

Tonight the jig made easy work of building primroses replacement chassis & its now ready for some final bits before I paint it black. I will add all the brakegear once the wheels are on & the chassis is rolling. It makes fitting gibson wheels easier especially getting the GW models wheelpress near the chassis.

 

Here is the new chassis 

 

 

Very pleased with this evenings session, can't wait to finally finish off Primrose & see it running. 

 

That's all for this evening 

 

Si

[Simon Moore]

I had hoped over the weekend that I would have got Primrose running but that wasn't to be. The medication I am taking is really playing havoc with me. Saturday was spent on the sofa resting & Sunday was busy.

 

Tonight however I soldered a whole 4 tiny pieces of brass to the chassis whilst running the bath. I'm not sure what's going on at the minute with my meds but it's not good so if I can get 4 bits soldered on that's progress. 

 

The 4 parts in question were the guard irons which were also pressed out for the rivet detail. I am hoping to get a window of energy & have a evening working on the model & getting it running. I'm using a set of romfords to get the chassis rolling & for testing before the Gibson wheels are fitted once I know it's running ok. I am really making sure that the whole chassis is spot on this time around. 

I really want to finish this & the RSH before Christmas so I can start something new over the holidays. 

[hayfield]

Simon

 

I had a similar experience over the weekend, for years now I get a mini 24 hour cold, just cannot stop sneezing and a very runny nose. No chance of making anything. Seen the doctor years ago who said its just something I have to live with. My wife never catches it, its over within 36 hours just something in my immune system that flares up ever 3 or 4 months. I just count myself lucky its always a minor inconvenience. 

 

Quite often I find its a case of having a bit of a break from things that works wonders, plus lately I find chilling out a bit each day helps

 

Good luck and I hope things resolve themselves for you quickly

[Simon Moore]

Cheers John

 

I'm thankful it's just a cold bug. A few years ago I got sinusitis really bad which floored me. I was really ill from it & ever since when I get colds or winter viruses it flairs up. Thankfully this time it hasn't. I have lost my voice as a result this time though hence why I've not given you a call recently. Once I can speak again I will ring you to discuss that loco & track.

[hayfield]

I was getting worried that you were waiting for me to contact you, I was just about to phone you when I read your earlier post

 

Every now and then I find its worth doing something totally different. Stops me overthinking things at times

[Simon Moore]

After waking up this morning to snow I decided the only job today was drink tea & work on Primrose no2. I fitted the last few bits to the frames before I paint them & with the oven still warm from breakfast it cured the primer & black coat in no time at all meaning I could get on & make her run.

 

When I bought the kit originally it said to used a branchlines gearbox which I purchased. When I originally built the chassis in p4 I made a mess so I bought another kit to poach the chassis from to build this one & that one says a high level gearbox. I wish I had asked around first, I've never found worm & gear boxes much use I prefer high level, they seem so much smoother running.

 

The next one I build will have that gearbox as my friends going to do me a milled chassis & rods for the kit I just used for this models chassis.

 

Primrose no2 is now running & I can now turn to finishing her off & then I can get to finishing another of my projects, the RSH.

 

 

Primrose & the 14inch hunslet I built a while ago now. Quick video of primrose on test a few minutes ago too.

https://youtu.be/XSKVtO5xGpc

 

That's all for now.

 

 

 

 

[hayfield]

Simon

 

I agree I also have found the High Level gearboxes much easier to build, a big but is that after speaking with Dave Ellis and his companion at a show about building SEF motor mounts, they both advised building and testing/running them in them as stand alone units first.

 

This I have done firstly with a Comet gearbox then one of the Branchlines multi boxes when building them a while back, both after tweaking a bit started working as well as High Level ones. But like you I feel High Level are the go to first range.

 

On the rare occasions I have to use a motor mount I use the more modern types with smaller worms

 

By the way, Primrose is looking very good. As for the damaged chassis I wonder if the company would sell you a replacement chassis for your spare body ?

Edited November 28, 2021 by hayfield

[doilum]

On 22/11/2021 at 21:33, Simon Moore said:

I had hoped over the weekend that I would have got Primrose running but that wasn't to be. The medication I am taking is really playing havoc with me. Saturday was spent on the sofa resting & Sunday was busy.

 

Tonight however I soldered a whole 4 tiny pieces of brass to the chassis whilst running the bath. I'm not sure what's going on at the minute with my meds but it's not good so if I can get 4 bits soldered on that's progress. 

 

The 4 parts in question were the guard irons which were also pressed out for the rivet detail. I am hoping to get a window of energy & have a evening working on the model & getting it running. I'm using a set of romfords to get the chassis rolling & for testing before the Gibson wheels are fitted once I know it's running ok. I am really making sure that the whole chassis is spot on this time around. 

I really want to finish this & the RSH before Christmas so I can start something new over the holidays. 

Funny things, the guard irons. It would appear that they are a post preservation addition. She is certainly without them in the first years of preservation but has them by the time she reaches Embsay. My Primrose is in the condition that she left Peckfield and, unusually, I have not added any gunge or weathering.

Edited November 28, 2021 by doilum
Additional information

[Simon Moore]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Simon

 

I agree I also have found the High Level gearboxes much easier to build, a big but is that after speaking with Dave Ellis and his companion at a show about building SEF motor mounts, they both advised building and testing/running them in them as stand alone units first.

 

This I have done firstly with a Comet gearbox then one of the Branchlines multi boxes when building them a while back, both after tweaking a bit started working as well as High Level ones. But like you I feel High Level are the go to first range.

 

On the rare occasions I have to use a motor mount I use the more modern types with smaller worms

 

By the way, Primrose is looking very good. As for the damaged chassis I wonder if the company would sell you a replacement chassis for your spare body ?

 

I have found with the 14 inch that running the gearbox in for a few hours does help bed them in but they are nowhere near High level for silence & smoothness. 

 

Funnily enough John the replacement kit was for the chassis. The kit is a single etch for chassis & body. I'm going to see about ordering just the etch & donating the body parts to Mike before it leaves so I just have the chassis parts for a second model. 

 

Dolium

 

That's a very nice model. Mine is kind of a model from a photo & whilst in preserved condition it will still be shunting a colliery eventually. 

 

I've just painted the wheels up & added the plates. I'm having some custom transfers done for the cabside & eventually some etched worksplates. 

 

Shes running well now although I think she will be even better once all the gunk on the wheels are cleaned up. Another nice model from Mike's range. I do enjoy a judith edge kit  they always build well.

 

 

 

[doilum]

Definitely agree about the Judith Edge kits.  I had already built a 15" and scratch built a pair of 16" Hunslets before Mike got round to a 7mm version. I didn't really need another but couldn't resist a cheeky bid on the bay of E when I saw an unstarted but not quite complete 16" kit. I now have all three of the examples that ran locally in the no 8 area. You now need a brace of the side tipping wagons from RT models to go with her!

[Simon Moore]

26 minutes ago, doilum said:

 You now need a brace of the side tipping wagons from RT models to go with her!

 

Great minds Dolium & all that

 

 

10 of them to make.

[Ruston]

14 hours ago, Simon Moore said:

my friends going to do me a milled chassis & rods for the kit I just used for this models chassis.

Farmer John?

[doilum]

Plenty of opportunities for infinite variations then! Odd wheel sets, mismatched buffers and at least two very different brake systems. And that's before you consider examples that were transferred from another area with slightly different  repair methods and paint schemes.

Edited November 28, 2021 by doilum

[Simon Moore]

12 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Farmer John?

It is Dave, although I've had other ideas

[Simon Moore]

9 minutes ago, doilum said:

Plenty of opportunities for infinite variations then! Odd wheel sets, mismatched buffers and at least two very different brake systems. And that's before you consider examples that were transferred from another area with slightly different  repair methods and paint schemes.

 

I'd not noticed those variations. The only thing I had spotted was some had disc wheels rather than split spokes.

[doilum]

58 minutes ago, Simon Moore said:

 

I'd not noticed those variations. The only thing I had spotted was some had disc wheels rather than split spokes.

My own theory is that they date back to the austerity years of the early 1950s. Whilst the steelwork was new they perhaps used recycled running gear from condemned ex PO wagons. It isn't unusual to find examples with disc wheels on one axle and split spokes on the other. Either way the axles have been hacked of crudely with a gas axe. It certainly warrants a bit of research if you have ten to do. Some have brake shoes on a swinging frame hinged below the buffer beam. Others have a screw handwheel rather than a lever. 

[Simon Moore]

18 hours ago, doilum said:

My own theory is that they date back to the austerity years of the early 1950s. Whilst the steelwork was new they perhaps used recycled running gear from condemned ex PO wagons. It isn't unusual to find examples with disc wheels on one axle and split spokes on the other. Either way the axles have been hacked of crudely with a gas axe. It certainly warrants a bit of research if you have ten to do. Some have brake shoes on a swinging frame hinged below the buffer beam. Others have a screw handwheel rather than a lever. 

 

I have been trying to find photos or information this evening Dolium on the wagons as your post got me thinking more about them. Do you have any particular references to them or books that cover them? 

I've been looking at the few books I have with them in to identify differences & the only one I have spotted so far is the 3 hole disc wheels on the odd one. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Simon Moore

[doilum]

22 hours ago, Simon Moore said:

 

I'd not noticed those variations. The only thing I had spotted was some had disc wheels rather than split spokes.

My own theory is that they date back to the austerity years of the early 1950s. Whilst the steelwork was new they perhaps used recycled running gear from condemned ex PO wagons. It isn't unusual to find examples with disc wheels on one axle and split spokes on the other. Either way the axles have been hacked of crudely with a gas axe. It certainly warrants a bit of research if you have ten to do. Some have brake shoes on a swinging frame hinged below the buffer beam. Others have a screw handwheel rather than a lever. 

[doilum]

Sorry for the double post. Silly tablet!

These are elusive beasts when you want to find them. Frustratingly I cannot find the Google images that I discovered b when I was first researching them around ten years ago. I have had a quick shuffle through the book shelf and cannot find a mixed axle unicorn but, I did note:

Tom Heavy side " Yorkshire's last days of colliery steam" pg 42-3 have examples with the swinging frame / screw wheel brakes and other odd details. One also features Primrose no,2.

David Monk Steel " Industrial wagons: an introduction". A great colour shot on the cover with a few detail differences to the most common type. Notes and scale drawings on pg34-5.

Ron Rockett "Castleford colliery railways" pg 13,23, 42-3 include the previously described variation. 

His other volume " The Leeds, Castleford and Pontefract Junction Railway: Ledston branch" has photos from the Primrose Hill branch.

[doilum]

Sorry for the split answer.

If you haven't yet bought the wheels you may consider: most are split spokes. Add at least one with solid discs and another with three hole disc wheels. Another variation is a spindly solid spoke variety that warrants further investigation as to it's origins. There are lots of other detail variations including grab rails, steps and end bracing and that's before you begin counting rivets!

YouTube has videos of colliery steam ( a good excuse to indulge) which may feature these wagons. Look for Snowdown colliery in Kent and Bickershaw in Lancashire.

Have you seen Monty Burn's 70,s industrial steam thread in the prototype section? In February someone posted a video of the Primrose Hill branch. I had forgotten about this despite the fact that I contributed photos of my loco Astley!

Edited November 29, 2021 by doilum
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