Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[LBRJ]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The Italian banks are effectively bankrupt already and have only been kept going by being propped up by the Euro Target-2 arrangements.

A lot of financial commentators believe that if a collapse does come, Germany, who is carrying most of the debt for the rest of the Eurozone, will go into self protection mode and pull the plug, bringing the whole unstable Euro edifice down overnight, collapsing many southern and smaller European economies in the process.

I imagine this is at the forefront of the minds of the EU hierarchy and the ECB as they scramble to find solutions to dealing with the aftermath of the pandemic.

 

Not a political comment as such, but it's blindingly obvious that the EU have been a woeful shambles during this crisis up to now and that governments of member states are putting their national interests to the fore.

 

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Interesting comments there,

I doubt it is coincidence that as where we are at "becomes the new normal" ( in itself a scary idea, cos its not meant to be at all normal, where we are now) that shall we say  certain elements all over the internet (what else do we have at present?) are once again subtly trying to push their agenda forward - It really is like they have no shame.

[Ron Ron Ron]

7 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

 

Interesting comments there,

I doubt it is coincidence that as where we are at "becomes the new normal" ( in itself a scary idea, cos its not meant to be at all normal, where we are now) that shall we say  certain elements all over the internet (what else do we have at present?) are once again subtly trying to push their agenda forward - It really is like they have no shame.

 

For the sake of clarity, are you suggesting I'm attempting to push some sort of "agenda" ?

I'd be grateful of a straight answer.

 

Note: My comments are based on reading and observation of events and not on any personal beliefs or political prejudices. 

 

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Edited March 29, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[LBRJ]

1 minute ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

For the sake of clarity, are you suggesting I'm attempting to push some sort of "agenda" ?

I'd be grateful of a straight answer.

 

 

.

No not at all

You;ll only ever get a straight answer from me  so no need to ask...Im not mendacious.

I meant that your info rather went against a certain commonly heald and widely spread "internet belief" that only certain supra national organisations know what to do...

[Ron Ron Ron]

9 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

.....I meant that your info rather went against a certain commonly heald and widely spread "internet belief" that only certain supra national organisations know what to do...

 

It depends on what "supra national organisations" you are referring to?

There's a great deal of difference if we're talking about the medical and scientific aspects of the crisis, compared with the political and economic.

.

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[LBRJ]

We dont do politics on here......

thouh some do try to creep it in with links to such ahem reputable sources as the Grauniad etc

[Ron Ron Ron]

8 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

We dont do politics on here......

 

Agreed.

We'll leave it at that if you're happy?

 

p.s. Stay safe.

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Edited March 29, 2020 by Ron Ron Ron

[43110andyb]

NHS GC - I had this thought the other day and someone has started an on line petition. https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/george-cross-for-the-nhs 

[Joseph_Pestell]

9 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

There was a report yesterday from some medics in a London NHS trust, that those suffering from COVID-19 who were severely ill enough to be put in ICU, currently stood a 50/50 chance of survival and they were questioning the situation where they would end up ventilating large numbers of patients knowing it was ultimately pointless.

From various press reports going out tonight, it seems that decisions have now been made to only give critical care to those who are considered to have a "reasonable certainty" of survival.

Not entirely  I suppose.

This is truly a dreadful situation.

 

 

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I think that the medics are beginning to wonder whether ventilators are very useful in this situation. Use of a ventilator means that the body is not trying to work for itself at combatting the virus.

 

So, good news this morning that Mercedes GP team has developed a version of a device that helps an ill person to breath better (rather than doing the breathing for them.

[Nearholmer]

7 hours ago, EddieB said:

Except China?

I wouldn’t say “except China”, But they might emerge as being one of the countries that had a “very smart response” (after a short period of denial).

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 hours ago, LBRJ said:

No not at all

You;ll only ever get a straight answer from me  so no need to ask...Im not mendacious.

I meant that your info rather went against a certain commonly heald and widely spread "internet belief" that only certain supra national organisations know what to do...

 

If we learn anything from the current crisis, it is that centralisation of power and resources often leads to failure.

 

Take COVID-19 testing as an example. Slow in this country because we have very large medical analysis labs but few and far between. Other countries have labs in every town. Perhaps less "efficient" in normal times, but much more flexible in an emergency.

[jjb1970]

I am not a medical person but I suspect that the key question is whether the body needs ventilation to give it time to accept treatment and recover or whether it becomes a way of prolonging life with no prospect of recovery. In that sense I don't think it will be different to the difficult decision about if and when to end life support in any other cases.

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I am not a medical person but I suspect that the key question is whether the body needs ventilation to give it time to accept treatment and recover or whether it becomes a way of prolonging life with no prospect of recovery. In that sense I don't think it will be different to the difficult decision about if and when to end life support in any other cases.

 

2 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I am not a medical person but I suspect that the key question is whether the body needs ventilation to give it time to accept treatment and recover or whether it becomes a way of prolonging life with no prospect of recovery. In that sense I don't think it will be different to the difficult decision about if and when to end life support in any other cases.

 

It is perhaps not so much the ventilator itself that is the problem but the need to sedate the patient to be able to use a ventilator. Sedation can not be good for the body when it is trying to protect itself.

[Nearholmer]

7 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

If we learn anything from the current crisis, it is that centralisation of power and resources often leads to failure

Or, you could draw exactly the opposite lesson, in that centralised bureaucracies like the Chinese State and our own NHS are just what you need in a very widespread crisis.

 

Its probably pointless to ask whether centrally coordinated, or decentralised and possibly less coordinated, is “best”, because what is “best” for one activity or situation can be entirely “worst” for another ........ contingency planning should start from consideration of each foreseeable emergency, and set out the “best” for each one, which may look very different from case to case.

[beast66606]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I wouldn’t say “except China”, But they might emerge as being one of the countries that had a “very smart response” (after a short period of denial).

 

Not that smart - my (step) son reports the virus is back in the Sichuan province where he lives, so back to restrictions after almost being back to normal.

[Nearholmer]

6 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

Not that smart

I was careful to say “might” ..... being in the unfortunate position of being first, they have no one to learn from when it comes to “safe unlocking”.

[robert17649]

34 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

 

It is perhaps not so much the ventilator itself that is the problem but the need to sedate the patient to be able to use a ventilator. Sedation can not be good for the body when it is trying to protect itself.

elective ventilation requires  an anaesthetic, the patient is sedated and paralysed, in effect nearly killed . At the critical time this is reversed and hopefully they start breathing on their own, then you have to remove the tube , which in itself poses a number of complex problems. CPAP is simply a question of putting a mask on, and monitoring oxygen levels, it is less staff demanding and easier managed . I hope it works

[4630]

14 hours ago, beast66606 said:

Railway companies are storing locos - GBRF have 2 66s heading to Tyne Yard for storage and "there are more to come" (not sure if this is GBRF or other FOCs)

 

Added to which open access operator Hull Trains is suspending all services indefinitely - Hull Trains  - effective from today.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is followed by open access operator Grand Central doing the same with their services from Bradford Interchange and Sunderland, and postponing the launch of their new service from Blackpool North.

 

Updated at 1.30pm

 

From a note on Twitter it would seem that currently Grand Central's Bradford Interchange and Sunderland services will continue, but the launch of the Blackpool North service is postponed, although driver training for this is continuing. 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by 4630
To add an update.

[beast66606]

Update from Sichuan this morning.

 

Schools closed again, they opened for staff last week but have now shut again, restaurants, shops (aside from food) etc didn't reopen.

Social distancing is mandatory but people are still allowed out and can move around (relatively easily) within their local areas (a few miles radius), the social distancing is the critical requirement, any infringement of the 2m rule has zero tolerance from the police.

[TheQ]

Deleted entered in. Error 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by TheQ

[TheQ]

Deleted entered in error

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by TheQ

[4630]

At any other time this would be funny.

 

Driver on M6 lockdown trip with wife in boot.

[Baby Deltic]

[jjb1970]

It's good to see that the news about how medical staff will consider the best interests of the patient when making decisions about ventilator use is being headlined by some in the press as "NHS rationing ventilators"......

 

Another great example of headline writing, never waste an opportunity to frighten people eh?

[4630]

Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies has laid out some of the economic decisions that, in his view, will need to be faced once the Coronavirus pandemic has eased.

 

Link posted for those interested in economics* and not to provoke a political debate.

 

The new normal is not going to be like the old normal

 

 

*not for nothing is it sometimes referred to as 'the dismal science'.

 

[John Tomlinson]

11 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

The quote from the original Telegraph article was:

 

 

Isn't that just what you would hope for in a caring doctor?

 

 

If you look on the ITV News website today there is a piece by Robert Peston about preparing for the worst. I'll say no more.

 

John.