Worst looking locomotive topic. Antidote to Best Looking Locomotive topic.

[rockershovel]

2 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

I rather fancy a leading bogie might make it look like a 3521, which were not the most elegant.

 

I think most, of not all inside cylinder, outside frame SG locos are more-or-less aesthetically challenged. The exception to prove the rule being the GWR City class...

[Andy Kirkham]

Inside cylinder 2-6-0s were rare, and most of the ones I've seen (Like the G&SWR "Austrian Goods") just don't look right. The thing about this one is that it doesn't look as if it was conceived from the outset as a mogul. It looks as if it was supposed to be an 0-6-0 but it didn't work.

 

[petethemole]

That's what happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS%26WR_Class_368

[Andy Kirkham]

10 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I think most, of not all inside cylinder, outside frame SG locos are more-or-less aesthetically challenged. The exception to prove the rule being the GWR City class...

 

I think the "Armstrongs" proved the rule even more (essentially a Dean Single with an extra axle)

 

And here is another shot of a  reboilered Stella to emphasise the point

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Andy Kirkham

[mike morley]

I've a very soft spot for pretty (choice of word intentional) much every 2-4-0 I've ever seen.  But that Borsig?  Nah . . .

It's tender's a bit of a minger, too.

[Andy Kirkham]

6 minutes ago, petethemole said:

That's what happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS%26WR_Class_368

So it did! I got the picture from that page but neglected to read the text.

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

 

I think the "Armstrongs" proved the rule even more (essentially a Dean Single with an extra axle)

 

And here is another shot of a  reboilered Stella to emphasise the point

 

The Armstrongs are very handsome, as are the Dean singles. 

[rockershovel]

Another one which is not so much "ugly" as "why would they do that?"

 

 

[The Johnster]

And they say a pannier never offends...

 

As to why they'd do that. apart from being French (IIRC) and therefore under the description of 'mad foreigners' or, as we call them in my house 'foreigners', you'd do something like that if a) you needed a 4-axle chassis to keep axle loading down and b) any other arrangement would get in the way of the firebox.

[pH]

5 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

Inside cylinder 2-6-0s were rare, and most of the ones I've seen (Like the G&SWR "Austrian Goods") just don't look right. The thing about this one is that it doesn't look as if it was conceived from the outset as a mogul. It looks as if it was supposed to be an 0-6-0 but it didn't work.

 

I don’t think the ‘Austrian Goods’ looks too bad. It was a new design, though based on the 279 class 0-6-0s:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF4TH1UWwAAwFxW?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

The Caledonian 34 class, on the other hand, really do look like 0-6-0s with leading wheels added, which they were (30 class):

https://www.alamy.com/former-caledonian-railway-34-class-2-6-0-steam-locomotive-as-lms-17801-in-pre-1928-livery-image216692875.html

 

I think the more substantial frame extensions on the G&SWR engine makes a big difference to the appearance.

[DenysW]

Quote

As to why they'd do that. apart from being French (IIRC) and therefore under the description of 'mad foreigners' or, as we call them in my house 'foreigners', you'd do something like that if a) you needed a 4-axle chassis to keep axle loading down and b) any other arrangement would get in the way of the firebox.

 

This may be a minor difference, but I believe that (a) was correct and (b) it's Belgian, not French. The Brits believe (including me) that you have to work a lot harder to become a Famous Belgian than a Famous Frenchman, and this could be an attempt. It also could be a petulant attempt to defeat Whyte notation, trying to make it a Famous Belgian Locomotive.

[rodent279]

11 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Another one which is not so much "ugly" as "why would they do that?"

 

 

Dammit Carruthers, what the deuce is that wheel arrangement?

[rodent279]

46 minutes ago, DenysW said:

 

This may be a minor difference, but I believe that (a) was correct and (b) it's Belgian, not French. The Brits believe (including me) that you have to work a lot harder to become a Famous Belgian than a Famous Frenchman, and this could be an attempt. It also could be a petulant attempt to defeat Whyte notation, trying to make it a Famous Belgian Locomotive.

Alfred Belpaire, Egide Walschsaerts, Maurice Lemaitre, Gerardus Mercator (geographer), Georges Lemaitre (Big Bang theory), Arthur Vierendeel (Vierendeel truss).....

 

There's plenty of 'em. We Brits just think they're all French 'cos they sarnd forrin innit?

[DenysW]

Text deleted

Edited December 19, 2021 by DenysW

[DenysW]

Agreed, but accepting that anything that we produce even can be done better outside our shores goes against the British self-image.

 

Our attempts to defeat Whyte were much milder, and seem mostly limited to Sturrock's 47 booster-fitted GNR locos, followed by the three that Gresley designed.

[rodent279]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

And they say a pannier never offends...

 

As to why they'd do that. apart from being French (IIRC) and therefore under the description of 'mad foreigners' or, as we call them in my house 'foreigners', you'd do something like that if a) you needed a 4-axle chassis to keep axle loading down and b) any other arrangement would get in the way of the firebox.

I can see the point of an extra axle to reduce axle loadings, but why not a trailing pony truck? I can't see how that would get in the way of the firebox.

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

Alfred Belpaire, Egide Walschsaerts, Maurice Lemaitre, Gerardus Mercator (geographer), Georges Lemaitre (Big Bang theory), Arthur Vierendeel (Vierendeel truss).....

 

There's plenty of 'em. We Brits just think they're all French 'cos they sarnd forrin innit?

 

Hergé, Simenon &c &c. Also, oddly enough Audrey Hepburn.

[Andy Kirkham]

6 minutes ago, Welchester said:

 

Hergé, Simenon &c &c. Also, oddly enough Audrey Hepburn.

 

Painters Reubens, Rembrandt, Van Dyke, Van Eyck, Breughel, Van der Weyden et al.  Composers Josquin Desprez, Orlando de Lassus ..

They would have been Belgian if Belgium had been a concept in their lifetimes.

 

People only count as famous Belgians if they lived after the creation of the state of Belgium in 1830.

If we applied the same restrictions to Italy and Germany, think how many famous Italians and Germans would be excluded.

 

[billbedford]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

And they say a pannier never offends...

 

As to why they'd do that. apart from being French (IIRC) and therefore under the description of 'mad foreigners' or, as we call them in my house 'foreigners', you'd do something like that if a) you needed a 4-axle chassis to keep axle loading down and b) any other arrangement would get in the way of the firebox.

 

...and the sledge brakes?

[laurenceb]

The late, great Dennis Allendon who built a model of one described it as putting the extra axle in where needed just to confuse Whyte

[rodent279]

44 minutes ago, laurenceb said:

The late, great Dennis Allendon who built a model of one described it as putting the extra axle in where needed just to confuse Whyte

It even outwits UIC notation as far as I can tell. About the only system it doesn't defeat is the Swiss system of the number of powered axles and the total number of axles, i.e. 3/6 for a 4-6-2. This would be a 3/4 (as would an 0-6-2 or a 2-6-0, which is where the Swiss system falls down).

Edited December 19, 2021 by rodent279

[whart57]

3 hours ago, Welchester said:

 

Hergé, Simenon &c &c. Also, oddly enough Audrey Hepburn.

 

Audrey Hepburn was more Dutch than Belgian, her parents just happened to be living in Belgium when she was born. But she also went to school in England and her parents were married in what is now Indonesia. A very well-travelled lady, but not someone imo who should be a thread of plug uglies.

 

However Borsig's offerings were a different matter. Though the earlier version with smaller driving wheels was less of an offence on the eye

 

 

This class lasted well, and one is preserved in the Utrecht museum. The tender cab extension was a result of their use on goods services on minor lines in their last years

Edited December 19, 2021 by whart57

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

 

Audrey Hepburn was more Dutch than Belgian, her parents just happened to be living in Belgium when she was born. But she also went to school in England and her parents were married in what is now Indonesia. A very well-travelled lady, but not someone imo who should be a thread of plug uglies.

 

However Borsig's offerings were a different matter. Though the earlier version with smaller driving wheels was less of an offence on the eye

 

 

This class lasted well, and one is preserved in the Utrecht museum. The tender cab extension was a result of their use on goods services on minor lines in their last years

What ARE those huge fireboxes? The GWR Krugers have them, too...

[whart57]

Descendants of the old haystack designs I presume, or Belpaires on steroids

[rockershovel]

5 hours ago, rodent279 said:

I can see the point of an extra axle to reduce axle loadings, but why not a trailing pony truck? I can't see how that would get in the way of the firebox.

Speaking of firebox clearance, the NYC 4-6-4 Hudsons had trailing trucks with different wheel sizes for that reason.