Dreadnought05 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) I'd like to make a junction board to line a double track mainline going into a single track branch and want some opinions and advice on what is most prototypical/pleasing to the eye. Option 1 has the branch line branching off to the left with joining trains crossing over to get back on the mainline. Firstly, is this realistic? Would the crossing go to the right instead? I've seen lots of "BR Steam era facing points are a no-no", so that being the case what other option would I have? Option 2 is symmetrical and visually pleasing, but I can't help it feels very American rather than British, and it also forces the mainline into one of two branches which defeats the purpose of a mainline? I'm just looking to get the "flow" right before I start anything, so no restrictions on space at the moment. Track used is PECO bullhead. Edited March 22, 2020 by Dreadnought05 added images Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, Dreadnought05 said: I'd like to make a junction board to line a double track mainline going into a single track branch and want some opinions and advice on what is most prototypical/pleasing to the eye. Option 1 has the branch line branching off to the left with joining trains crossing over to get back on the mainline. Firstly, is this realistic? Would the crossing go to the right instead? I've seen lots of "BR Steam era facing points are a no-no", so that being the case what other option would I have? Option 2 is symmetrical and visually pleasing, but I can't help it feels very American rather than British, and it also forces the mainline into one of two branches which defeats the purpose of a mainline? I'm just looking to get the "flow" right before I start anything, so no restrictions on space at the moment. Track used is PECO bullhead. The top one is quite common, the lower one less so, but is good for 2 single lines branching off. Regarding not having facing points. Some railways avoided facing points where possible, but certainly not a case of they weren't used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 It all depends on the individual location and era. The full size UK railways don't have baseboards, they generally run along valleys which are generally neither straight nor level. There are exceptions Dovey Junction(?) but usually one line branches away in a cutting or on an embankment. The top arrangement is/ was quite common, especially in the pre 1970 era but the bottom arrangement is not unusual either, There is no rule which says the Branch curves away from the main line, sometimes the main curves away from the Branch especially where the branch was built first. The LSWR Main line to Plymouth curves sharply away from the LSWR branch to Barnstaple / Ilfracombe, which itself curved away sharply from the LSWR branch to Torrington because the branch came first. Post 1970 single junctions with a single line joining a double one with a singe point followed by a crossover replaced the traditional junctions. It was claimed to be just as safe but the railway accident reports tell a different story Many times the double track on a single track branch continues for at least a train length beyond the junction so a (Goods) train can wait on the branch to cross a train coming off the branch without blocking the main. Stanley Junction north of Perth took to the extreme. As usual best suggestion is to look at photos of your chosen era and area. Lots of them. Johnny Foreigner had different ideas. The Yanks will have a single point at a junction and pass trains on the main line by setting one back down the branch, or on the branch by setting one back down the main as well as branching off the main. Different world over there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2020 The official (i.e Board of Trade/Dept of Transport) Requirement for the of a double line to single line junction, or a junction in a singe line was as you have drawn your junctions. whichever line curves beyond the junction is really no more than a matter of topography or railway history. For example at Penwithers Jcn just west of Truro where the Falmouth branch left the main line to Penzance the straight route was towards Falmouth because it had originally been the only route, the connection towards Penzance was added at a later date. What are known as 'single lead junctions' - where the turnout and diamond was replaced by a crossover and turnout first emerged a few years into the 1970s and were basically an ecob nomy measure to avoid teh cost of maintaining diamond crossings - although they involve more point ends. the earlier Requirement for double line junctions to and on single lines had gone from the requirements by1950 but older junctions were not normally altered although new work no longer conformed (and that had probably been the case for new work for some years by then as various wartime layouts didn't comply). 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2020 Then there are the oddities such as Waterhall Juntion, just south of Radyr. Mike the Stationmaster knows it well, although I believe Waterhall Junction had closed before Radyr was part of his stamping ground. It was goods only and all trains up the branch were propelled from the down main. Trains coming off the branch halted and then were propelled back to Radyr via the single slip. https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwk/S1449.htm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Butts Junction (Mid Hants, Meon Valley, Basingstoke & Alton) was a 3 way version of the second image. (Though once the Basingstoke line closed so did the signalbox and the Meon Valley and Mid Hants lines ran as parallel single lines from Alton instead). Smallbrook Junction on the IOW was like the second one too. Countless examples of both types could be found throughout the country, no doubt. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) The Gloucester branch (for Newent) leading off the main line at Ledbury, was initially a double track branch off the double track main. The branch was singled but retained its double junction exactly as shown in @Dreadnought05 first plan until the 1950s. The junction was eventually singled with the Newent trains using just the one platform at Ledbury. In this location, the mainline was on an embankment and so too was the branchline that led to some interesting earth and bridgeworks. The station itself was partially on made up ground and as you moved away from the branchline end the opposite station throat was in a cutting leading eventually into a tunnel. Cheers, Philip Edited March 22, 2020 by Philou Errant comma 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought05 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 Thank you all for the input, it's very useful. Can I ask, where there any hard and fast rules about priority for branches coming back on to the main? Topography aside would it be more likely a train would cross over the down main and onto the up, or join straight onto the up or am I o overthinking this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2020 Nothing wrong with a facing connection from a main line to a branch line, whether by way of a diamond (as per the OP diagram) or turnouts. But it needs to be a location with a lot of traffic going from the main line to the branch e.g. Witham Friary with numerous (empty) mineral trains to the Mendip quarries. Usually, wherever possible, there would not be a direct connection to the branch via a facing connection, even at quite major junctions like Bodmin Road. From a modeller's viewpoint, it may make layout operation more interesting not to have the facing connection. Maiden Newton is a good example of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Dreadnought05 said: Thank you all for the input, it's very useful. Can I ask, where there any hard and fast rules about priority for branches coming back on to the main? Topography aside would it be more likely a train would cross over the down main and onto the up, or join straight onto the up or am I o overthinking this! That just depends on geography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2020 57 minutes ago, Dreadnought05 said: Topography aside would it be more likely a train would cross over the down main and onto the up, or join straight onto the up or am I o overthinking this! Yup A train leaving the branch would always take the left hand line where the track became double and run through the junction as a normal double track junction. If that meant crossing one of the main lines on the diamond so be it. This arrangement avoids any wrong line running through the junction or on the main line during normal operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought05 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) Funnily enough, I found a picture of Broom Junction which pretty much covers everything EDIT Obviously wasn't looking hard enough because I found this one too! Edited March 22, 2020 by Dreadnought05 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Dreadnought05 said: Thank you all for the input, it's very useful. Can I ask, where there any hard and fast rules about priority for branches coming back on to the main? Topography aside would it be more likely a train would cross over the down main and onto the up, or join straight onto the up or am I o overthinking this! The only hard and fast rule (unless there was a particular reason to get an exemption) was the one I have quoted, The only decision then was likely to be based on traffic requirements and little else although traffic patterns changed over the years of course. So what you need to do is try to look at the context of your track layout and overall railway layout in the context of the real world company/area/era you are modelling. For example the Midland railway branch from Hwaes Jcn to Hawes had a through train passing through the junction station from the south onto the branch - but there was never a facing connection to the branch so the train had to be shunted to cross over. But go to Witham (Somerset) mentioned above and there was a facing connection onto the branch although not many trains to use it each day (and that direct facing connection was removed in the days when the branch started to get really busy with traffic to Merehead Quarry being replaced by single leads ina different place). It all varied according to need and traffic patterns. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted April 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2020 How about Shawford Junction, near Eastleigh? It's quite similar to your intended layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought05 Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 5 hours ago, tomparryharry said: How about Shawford Junction, near Eastleigh? It's quite similar to your intended layout. Yes, that's exactly the sort of prototypical proof I'm looking for! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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