Motors fo larger 4mm locomotives

[bordercollie]

Hi

I was wondering if the 16xx series machima motors with suitable gear box  can be fitted into the larger GWR locomotives Castle, Hall and 28xx

[Michael Edge]

Depends on your gauge and to some extent the loco. 16mm is too wide to fit between the wheels in 00 (and very tight in EM) and will only fit in a narrow firebox if it is made from thin sheet. 

[hayfield]

Chris at High Level now sells 2 types of coreless motors  a 1219 & 1220 at £27 & £29.50 respectively, I have the smaller one and its superbb, the larger one is supposedly very powerful   

[ianLMS]

On 30/03/2020 at 09:32, hayfield said:

Chris at High Level now sells 2 types of coreless motors  a 1219 & 1220 at £27 & £29.50 respectively, I have the smaller one and its superbb, the larger one is supposedly very powerful   

 

Good afternoon John,

The coreless motors on Ebay I have seen come with 1mm shafts. Do the ones from High level have thicker shafts or does he sell them with the 1mm worm to fit his gearboxes?  I am looking at picking up a couple of the smaller one for my next kits (Black 5 or Webb Tank) and I am in the need for more motors. 

The Mitsui motors I had wont fit his gearboxes straight and only work on an angle which is no use for smaller fireboxes/boiler spaces.  For the price of a Mashima these days, I may as well get a coreless one.

 

Thanks

Ian

Edited April 7, 2020 by ianLMS

[cctransuk]

25 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

 

Good afternoon John,

The coreless motors on Ebay I have seen come with 1mm shafts. Do the ones from High level have thicker shafts or does he sell them with the 1mm worm to fit his gearboxes?  I am looking at picking up a couple of the smaller one for my next kits (Black 5 or Webb Tank) and I am in the need for more motors. 

The Mitsui motors I had wont fit his gearboxes straight and only work on an angle which is no use for smaller fireboxes/boiler spaces.  For the price of a Mashima these days, I may as well get a coreless one.

 

Thanks

Ian

 

Ian,

 

It is the work of moments to drill two additional holes in a High Level gearbox fret, to accommodate a Mitsumi motor in vertical format.

 

The Mitsumis that I sell; https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm ; come complete with fixing screws, and a diagram show exactly where to drill the extra holes.

 

Regretably, I am unable to supply at the moment due to self-isolating, but I will be happy to take orders as soon as the current situation eases.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

[hayfield]

Ian

 

I cannot comment on Mitsumis motors so cannot compare them with Chris's motors

 

The coreless motors come with 1.5 mm shafts, as you say the price of them is similar to those Mashima's are fetching, however I am led to believe by others (supposedly in the know) their performance is far superior to the more traditional types. Certainly they work very well and given a modern kit will set you back well over £100 in parts an extra couple of % to the cost in my opinion is well worth it.

 

The second point is you could call me lazy, but I was forever having meshing issues with standard motor mounts, its a joy to build a High Level gearbox. I gladly pay extra for a motor to be sourced and have the correct fixing holes drilled

 

Chris has gone out and sourced both standard iron cored and coreless motors which rev at an acceptable speed for model trains, (be careful not to buy high revving motors designed for drones) and then has the holes drilled and tapped, there is a cost for doing this and one I am happy to pay. I bought 4 very cheap motors from China, they have to be glued into a motor mount and they run very fast

 

Chris also sells two 3 pole Iron cored motors, 1015 & 1020 they have 1 mm shafts and Chris supplies worms to fit. I have a 1015 and it works fine. certainly fits into a tiny tank loco, I have one in a LSWR 02 chassis initial testa its fine, I might have been better off using the 1020, so may in time put this one into a P class loco and fit a 1020 into the 02

 

I am in a bit of a quandry, I have some larger round Mashima motors, its tempting to sell them off on eBay and top up the proceeds to buy coreless.

 

Last year we bought a 3 bulb pendant light from a local independent shop, after a few weeks the LED bulbs started to fail, first one just stopped working, then 2 more over a 2-3 week period exploded, the last one damaging the light fitting. The shop supplied both the unit and the bulbs, begrudgingly they had to replace both the unit and bulbs, as the bulbs were from a different company to the unit, I assume the retailer had to foot the cost of the damaged unit. The new light unit with a different brand of bulb has worked fine. This taught me a lesson, sometimes its cheaper in the long term to pay a bit more for compatible items.    

[ianLMS]

Thank you both. To try and fit the Mitsui motor to the high level gearbix, i drilled two new holes but i think the gearbox was too slim so the screw would jam against the side due to not being enough room. 

 

I cant remember but it might have been the slim gearbox rather than the standard one i purchased. Will take a look later.

 

I have a couple of round mashimas as well. They might fit in some locos, just depends on the width of the opening into the firebox. I will check the kits i have and see. If not i will sell them as well!

 

I might get one coreless and give it a try in the Jubilee and see if theres a noticeable diffence against the mashima.

Edited April 7, 2020 by ianLMS

[DCB]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Last year we bought a 3 bulb pendant light from a local independent shop, after a few weeks the LED bulbs started to fail, first one just stopped working, then 2 more over a 2-3 week period exploded, the last one damaging the light fitting. The shop supplied both the unit and the bulbs, begrudgingly they had to replace both the unit and bulbs, as the bulbs were from a different company to the unit, I assume the retailer had to foot the cost of the damaged unit. The new light unit with a different brand of bulb has worked fine. This taught me a lesson, sometimes its cheaper in the long term to pay a bit more for compatible items.    

 

Not too sure about that, we had 500 watt Halogen security lights at our village hall. Fit LED bulbs, says I, cut the leccy bill by 90% the LED replacement bulbs are only £3.50 for two, I have one in my garden..

Ah great idea, says they, but its a sod to change bulbs, let us instead blow £50 each on 5 proper LED sealed units.  The first one lasted 3 months, 4 of the 5 failed within a year, no refunds were forthcoming..
My £3.50 for 2 bulb is still working.  You get what you pay for.  My mate had an old car. Didn't go, offered it for £50 no takers. He re advertised it for £950 and sold it in a week.

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, ianLMS said:

 To try and fit the Mitsui motor to the high level gearbix, i drilled two new holes but i think the gearbox was too slim so the screw would jam against the side due to not being enough room.

 

Ian,

 

I had that occur recently when building two High Level gearboxes for ex-LMS 2Ps.

 

All I did was extend the new holes into the corner folds with a rat-tailed file, until I had created some clearance for the edge of the screw heads. It only needed a tiny amount of slotting to achieve this.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

David

 

My analogy was that because I bought both items from the same retailer they could not say the issue was with the other item, I had to wait for 2 weeks after the first exploding bulb, as the bulb supplier was blaming the lighting unit supplier, and the lighting unit supplier was blaming the bulb supplier for the problem. Once the second bulb exploded and damaged the light fitting, I took the whole lot back and demanded replacements or a refund. I have no idea who fronted up for the £150 replacement for the unit but I have an undamaged unit and bulbs that do not explode

 

Back to the motor and gearbox, I buy both from High Level as they are compatible with each other. If I attach (glued in my case) a motor without the appropriate fixings I can hardly go back to High Level and complain they are not working. More to the point I am not disappointed when they fail to mesh properly with each other. But if you have the skills to overcome the problem then go ahead

[ianLMS]

Thank you. I have asked High Level to recommend the best gearbox combinations for the 4 kits I have in my to-do box and I plan to test one of their coreless motors to see how it performs. 

 

I still have a Mitsui motor, 2 or 3 round Mashima's, an N20 with attached gearbox and an old Anchorage open motor so I have a few options!

[Barclay]

Forgive me coming late to this topic but the Mitsumi can be very easily soldered to the gearbox as Ruston has showed us. In and out with 145 solder - no problem at all.

 

 

For applications that need something larger the Minebea 15mm square can motor with 6 pole armature is very slow, smooth and powerful, and has a 2mm shaft. Also highly inexpensive and available in at least 2 different lengths. 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

Forgive me coming late to this topic but the Mitsumi can be very easily soldered to the gearbox as Ruston has showed us. In and out with 145 solder - no problem at all.

 

 

 

For the benefit of those who don't buy their Mitsumis from me, I attach below the diagram that I supply which shows where to drill additional attachment screw holes in a High Level gearbox.

 

 

For narrow gearboxes, the holes should be ovalled-out with a rat-tailed file, into the fold line, to give some clearance for the screw heads.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

Edited April 17, 2020 by cctransuk

[Michael Edge]

5 hours ago, Barclay said:

Forgive me coming late to this topic but the Mitsumi can be very easily soldered to the gearbox as Ruston has showed us. In and out with 145 solder - no problem at all.

 

 

For applications that need something larger the Minebea 15mm square can motor with 6 pole armature is very slow, smooth and powerful, and has a 2mm shaft. Also highly inexpensive and available in at least 2 different lengths. 

The 15mm square motor seems to be very good but it does run a bit warm - doesn't appear to come to any harm though.