The Saltport Saga

[Barclay]

On 15/04/2022 at 19:32, Ruston said:

I have been looking at pictures of the engine that I thought had 10 spokes but, to be honest, I'm not sure how many it has. It's difficult to tell when the crank pin boss is larger than the other spokes. Anyway, these are 13mm wheels, both by Markits and both sold as Barclay wheels.

Cheers - I need 3'7" for this loco., so probably the Markits 3'6" will do fine. 

[Adam]

On 15/04/2022 at 16:47, Barclay said:

I am very fond of old commercial vehicles and there are a fair number on the layout already. I bought this mid-thirties Morris semi forward control cab from Road Transport Images at an exhibition several years ago. I didn't buy the complete kit as I always thought they were quite pricey, and I am pretty tight.

 

This has meant having to cobble together the rest of the vehicle. There's a brass ladder chassis, a plasticard flat bed, and some Coopercraft wheels from a sprue I bought ages ago. The mudguards are taken from the Coopercraft Bedford that lies as scrap behind the shed on the layout.  On the first loose assembly I think it's looking OK, but obviously there are details to add. I hope lorry enthusiasts will let me off what's wrong with it - it's amazing what you can get away with when you don't know much about a subject.

 

 

 

 

The one thing I would say is that the wheels are far too small and ill-proportioned (they're far too small for both the Bedford and the AEC as well of course) since they should fill the mudguards. See these images for a reference: https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p414366842/hfe9ad85#hfe9ad85

While I agree with the expense of the full package - and I only ever buy the wheels, cabs and, occasionally, chassis, I never bother with the bodies which makes a great saving. In this case, treat yourself to some wheels, they'll be the making of the model.

Adam

[Ruston]

10-spoke wheels.

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/industrial-and-light/industrial-steam/other/hA884E99D#ha884e99d

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

10-spoke wheels.

https://rcts.zenfolio.com/industrial-and-light/industrial-steam/other/hA884E99D#ha884e99d

That’s got 11 - giveaway is that there are no spokes diametrically opposite each other, which is the indication of even numbers.

But, when the wheel is going round, you can’t count the number of spokes anyway!

[Barclay]

With a few extra details, including the vaguest representation of a drivetrain, it was ready for primer. Paint will take a little longer - At the moment I seem to be making a worse job of it than I did with the AEC Monarch I built 40 years ago ! Looking at these photo's I realise the front axle is a touch too far back, but easily remedied as it's soldered to the chassis rails. The wheels, yes, they are a little heavy for this prototype, but I'm struggling to lose sleep over it so I suppose they will stay. I intend to make a front bumper from some stainless steel fret waste I have, if I can find it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barclay]

The Morris lorry is on hold at the moment, following two abortive attempts to paint it. The first was brush painted blue, and just wasn't good enough. The second time I spray painted it green using a rattle can, and it was fine until that final "just one more" coat, which came out all blobby and ruined it. Back to primer now and waiting to be sprayed blue when I next paint a Santa Fe locomotive, which shouldn't be too long. I still look at that AEC Monarch and am jealous of that 14/15 year old's painting abilities!

 

Meanwhile, Expo-EM yesterday, well today as well of course, but I was there yesterday and it was amazing to be back after three years. Great to see so many faces, and the Saltport Harbour Authority managed to get a couple of bargain loco's for its fleet. The first is the classic Impetus Ruston 48DS. I know there are other ways to build one now, but I have always really wanted this kit. It is arranged to drive on one axle only, so I'll have to ponder whether to use the parts supplied, or go 'High Level' as 5050 has recently done. Amazingly I had, not 20 mins. previously, bought a set of etched Ruston & Hornsby builders plates and 'RUSTON' logo's from the odds and ends box on the Judith Edge stand. The second loco. is a set of Judith Edge etches for the Gilkes, Wilson locomotives 'Kilmar' and 'Cheesewring', owned by the Liskeard and Caradon Railway. Either loco. can be built and I think it will be 'Kilmar' as I like the short saddle tank with the dome behind it. Need to source castings and boiler tube as with all these 'etches only' jobs but for £29 you can't complain.

 

Finally, and less appropriately, I nabbed a Stanier 2-6-4T which uses a Hornby body and a Comet chassis. Not a fully finished loco., but more or less there. Mashima motor and, I think, Ultrascale wheels. All for the princely sum of £20. Rude not to, and I do like the LMS 2-6-4Ts. It has been gently ticking over on my workbench today so nothing wrong with that at all, although compensation would have been nice ! As to final identity I am tempted to make it the one from 'Brief Encounter', as many have probably done before me.

 

That "Cupboard of Shame" is now overflowing - I need to build something!

 

 

 

[Barclay]

Well I've finally finished replacing all the lost photo's on this thread, just hope nothing else bad happens now...

 

Last weekend saw some fettling of the Stanier 2-6-4T. Not much needed really, I re-secured a return crank, added some weight, cleaned and adjusted the pickups, and filed down where the motion bracket was fouling the body and preventing it sitting down at the correct ride height. I also drilled out a tiny area where there was a 'skirt' under the boiler, and replaced this with a laminated plasticard boiler bottom. Barely noticeable mind. Now it will need a re-paint, weathered because I've never done lining and won't be starting with this one!

 

There's so little of my own work in this that it feels like I've just bought a RTR loco., so there's no real feeling of satisfaction in looking at it, although I do like them and will perhaps feel differently when it's been painted. Still, I would never have built one myself as I still have my old Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T, adorned with Perseverance bits , and a Percy chassis to build. This will, at least, be a rewarding process I think.

 

Of course, the fact that it was only £20 helps...

 

[Adam]

The Stanier is no worse for being effectively RTR (though you really should line it - waterslide lining only really needs patience and it'd be a good bit of 'your' input and there isn't really a more handsome livery that black lined red in my view). You may find yourself warming to it more while you grapple with things like crosshead clearances on the Fowler... You saved me on that front, at the price I'd have struggled to resist despite the things never being seen south of the Thames or west of Bristol! If you really don't want it, you'll make a profit by moving it on!

 

Adam

[Barclay]

You are quite right of course - perhaps this is the perfect time for me to get over my lining phobia. And it's foolish to look a gift horse in the mouth - I have resisted the temptation to go back to the chaps who sold it to me on the stand and say "Hey - you said it was a poor runner - I want my money back !" The thing is, they also had a Wills Stanier body kit for £10 and I nearly bought it to make the project more difficult, is there something wrong with me?

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

The thing is, they also had a Wills Stanier body kit for £10

Wasn’t that for the 3-cylinder version, generally used on the LTS?

[Barclay]

On 28/05/2022 at 13:21, Regularity said:

Wasn’t that for the 3-cylinder version, generally used on the LTS?

I think you're right so the Hornby body is more correct as well as much nicer !

[Barclay]

The Morris was airbrushed in Modelmaster Insignia Blue, with the mudguards and other bits touched in with a brush. It had one coat of Humbrol gloss 'Clear', which gave a satin finish, the loco. behind needing about 4 coats to prepare it for decals. The eagle eyed will notice the missing headlight which pinged off into the ether after about the twentieth attempt to superglue it into position, every one of which ended with the lamp glued to the tweezers. I am still hoping it will turn up, hence the lack of a replacement. The radiator shells were often chrome but I find something this shiny sticks out a mile on a model so I mixed some silver with black to give a subdued look.

 

 

After that, glazing, interior, and a bumper from fret waste, together with some light weathering with powders. It still lacks number plates as my printer is out of ink, but I plan to number it      VJ 9994, after a preserved example which bears the livery of an engineering company  from Nantwich, not a million miles away. Lastly a load and folded tarpaulin to complete the scene.

 

 

[Barclay]

I haven't had a particularly productive summer, but then it was VERY hot in the loft! A LNWR coal tank slowly takes shape but one thing I have found is that my workbench was littered with half-finished wagons - projects which had stalled, or optimistic purchases that needed a lot of work. This autumn's goal is therefore to get all of these unfinished projects completed. Here's the collection:

 

 

In the back row from left to right, a Tri-ang insulfish wagon from my childhood that we now know is a pretty good model of the L&Y diagram 3 van. It has had etched W-irons and cast axleboxes from MJT but is far from finished. Next the Tri-ang fish wagon, which we now know is a pretty good model of a Hull & Barnsley Ventilated van.  This is a recent eBay purchase, and will receive similar treatment. On the right is a Parkside 'LMS design' fruit wagon, which I bought in all innocence thinking it could be backdated to an LMS one. In fact it took a fair few mods. to make it a reasonable model of a Diagram 2097 van. It has had cast brakes and now just needs paint.

 

Front row - a wagon I bought at an exhibition last week. It appears to be from a plastic kit but has white metal springs and W-irons. I can't actually identify what it is meant to be. All wood, 10' WB, no curb rail. The closest I can get is an LMS diag. 1896 so this is what it will probably become. The semi-circular crown plates are unsuitable for such a wagon so will be removed. Next an LMS medium goods that I bought second hand very cheaply. It is from the old Ratio kit and will receive a Parkside fitted underframe. I'd like to keep the lettering but with the small style it should really be Bauxite so will probably end up very dirty! The Vauxhall colliery wagon is the first to be completed. I bought it assembled, albeit very badly, and clearly without reference to the instructions. Luckily it came apart easily and was rebuilt, loaded, and weathered. 

 

It will be good for modelling mojo to get these sorted so hopefully the next report won't take so long...

[Adam]

A nice collection, Stuart. The Vauxhall colliery wagon is probably a bit of an anachronism (the pit closed in 1928), but I wouldn't worry: http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/North/vauxhall.htm, it's such a frequent application of modellers' licence it's not worth worrying about, especially for a bargain.

 

I agree that the LMS open is closest to an 1898 - my rendition of a 1895 is below (right). A modest variation to the vastly more common 1666 (left). I scratchbuilt mine - I could/should have just put a Cambrian body on a longer wheelbase!

 

 

Adam

[Barclay]

9 hours ago, Adam said:

A nice collection, Stuart. The Vauxhall colliery wagon is probably a bit of an anachronism (the pit closed in 1928), but I wouldn't worry: http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/North/vauxhall.htm, it's such a frequent application of modellers' licence it's not worth worrying about, especially for a bargain.

 

I agree that the LMS open is closest to an 1898 - my rendition of a 1895 is below (right). A modest variation to the vastly more common 1666 (left). I scratchbuilt mine - I could/should have just put a Cambrian body on a longer wheelbase!

 

 

Adam

I do have something of a blind eye when it comes to PO wagons, many of mine are probably out of date, something I wouldn't entertain with company wagons. Mind you that L&Y diagram 3 wouldn't have survived the war so perhaps I should have it as an internal user.

[Asterix2012]

3 hours ago, Barclay said:

I do have something of a blind eye when it comes to PO wagons, many of mine are probably out of date, something I wouldn't entertain with company wagons. Mind you that L&Y diagram 3 wouldn't have survived the war so perhaps I should have it as an internal user.

Quite a few of them survived in use in Cadbury factories for a long time 

 

I am interested in what you do with the two triang ones, particularly the roof hatch on the L&Y one, that looks “interesting “

[Barclay]

Steady progress over the last few weeks. 

 

The L&Y diag.3 van, I decided really ought to be an internal user wagon, as it's too old to have survived the war in traffic. It was fitted with MJT L&Y W irons and axleboxes, PCB solebars, and converted to Morton brakes, in the absence of any other information. The brakes are some nice etched ones I got from somewhere, but typically can't remember where. Buffers are from 51L. The original roof was reduced in size all round, had all the detail filed off, and a simple roof door made from plasticard strip and a piece of an old brown paper bag. It sits here with the line's other internal user wagons, and will be used to convey parts from the main workshops, the roof door making it ideal for craning out heavy items...

 

 

The other Tri-ang original, the Hull & Barnsley van, also received MJT W-irons and their LNER oil axleboxes. They should have the swing link springs but I couldn't find such a part. The brakes are my last set of ABS cast parts for LNER brakes. Also PCB solebars, 51L buffers, and some nice IKB Models couplings, which are rather better than the Smiths ones I usually use. I have managed to lose the brake pipe at this end already, but it's OK - it'll be on the floor under my workbench, together with enough bits to make a whole other model railway... The roof is 2 layers of plasticard with cast white metal vents. It's already not dead straight and I'm starting to regret being too lazy to make a brass one. This van did survive the war, just, but was a lot more faded than mine is.

 

 

The LMS D. 2097 van took more work than I expected, requiring a fair few modifications, including removal of diagonal bracing and some ventilation hoods, plus new braking arrangements. Several earlier failed attempts to paint it, and the reactions between them, have created an unusual effect on the paintwork, which I would have been delighted with if this had been an old pre-grouping crock, but isn't quite right for a van just a few years old - typical! To be fair it's not as noticeable in real life.

 

 

 

The LMS medium goods received a fitted underframe courtesy of the Parkside PA16 kit, plus some new cast buffers. It was lightly sprayed with LMS bauxite, which, I discovered some years ago, was nothing like the orangey shade favoured by the LNER and BR. More like a bar of chocolate, meaning that a number of my older wagons are inaccurate in this respect. Also with IKB couplings.

 

 

The LMS Diag 1896 open would have been grey when new so I have supposed that war prevented it being re-painted. It is I suppose much too clean, and I may revisit it. Cleaning off the old paintwork revealed Alloa Coal Co. livery, and I think it might be the old Airfix/Dapol RTR wagon, with a new white metal chassis. It fits D.1896 pretty well though. The sacks are from the old sprue of loads that I think was made by Knightwing.

 

 

The Vauxhall wagon is of course ready to go once I have printed operating cards for this batch of wagons.

 

Right - back to the Coal tank !

 

 

[Ruston]

They all look the part with the weathering. There are some improvements you could make so that  the Triang van looks more like a L&Y Diag. 3. They were very low in height and so chopping the Triang body down by a plank makes them look more like the L&Y van. Recessing the headstocks up into the body so that the top of the headstock is above the top of that lower side rail, rather than being below it, also improves the appearance and lowers the entire thing.

[Barclay]

My latest loco hasn't received any coverage here as it's not an industrial - it's a LNWR Coal Tank, built from an ebay K's kit with after-market etched frames and bits and pieces from a variety of sources. However yesterday was a milestone as it ran on the layout under its own power for the first time, so here's a picture of the current state of play. It has received a new rear spectacle in brass and the very visible firebox has also been recreated. Under the hood, we have a Taff Vale Models 1227 motor, High Level Road Runner Plus gearbox, and single beam compensation with London Road Models hornblocks. The rear part of the frames has been narrowed to give more sideplay for the trailing axle. Very happy with the running, so now it's time for details!

 

 

 

[Ruston]

What wheels have you used? I presume the spokes are overlays, so are they part of the kit, or sourced elsewhere?

[Barclay]

21 minutes ago, Ruston said:

What wheels have you used? I presume the spokes are overlays, so are they part of the kit, or sourced elsewhere?

I had a right faff with the wheels. The kit came with Romfords, which I had planned to use. Unfortunately, one of them wasn't a Webb wheel, and the crank throw was different too. I bought one from Markits only to find that the new improved wheels also have a different crank throw. So, even though I already had crankpins, axles, and 1 wheel, it was cheaper to start again with Gibson wheels (Nicer looking too). The axles and crankpins could be re-used in the future in any case.

 

So to finally answer your question, yes, the Gibson Webb wheels come with an etched brass overlay fitted to simulate the appearance of the Webb wheels !

[Barry O]

you can use Romford crank pins in Gibson wheels... apply a bit of washing up liquid yo teh hole and screw the crankpins in...

 

Baz

[Barclay]

These were old-school Gibson wheels, the sort where you have to drill the hole for the crankpin yourself. I find that quite stressful! 

 

I must admit that I do not use the Gibson crankpin 'system', where you clamp the coupling rods between 2 bushes. It seems to me that this requires the hole in the rods to be made worryingly large, so I just run them with small holes directly onto the rods and the steel threads have yet to wear through any nickel silver rods. However, the smooth Romford crankpins may be the best option...

[Barclay]

The Management & Staff of the Saltport Harbour Authority would like to wish you a very Merry Christmas, and look forward to your valued custom in the New Year.

 

[Barclay]

Happy New Year to everyone. Well here's that K's Coal Tank finished at last - I can't believe it's been 6 months, but when I totted up all the extra parts I had to find or obtain I suppose it does make sense. Here we see it backing out of the yard after an improbable trip off LMS metals. I can't really justify any of the Big Four engines on my layout but they will crop up occasionally. For more details the build was written up on the EMGS Forum: https://emgs.org/members-forum/topic/ks-coal-tank-rebuild/

 

Surprisingly light weathering for me. I just couldn't bear to make it filthy - though it has had 2 or 3 all over coats of my usual weathering mixture, it was very much thinned down. The next project will be much more appropriate...

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Barclay