DCC decoder advice

[dragosmp]

Hi all,

 

This is my forst post on the forum. I have been reading the site for a good long while and I finally think/hope I can ask an articulated question.

 

About a year ago I picked up from a mate a box of stuff, among which a Hornby Select Controller and a few locos, track and some points. This was my first DCC setup, after about 30 years of playing only with DC, and I loved it. So much so that I went about converting all my 7 locos to DCC. Imagine that, using all locos at the same time. Not kidding, it never occured to me.

 

I went about learned about CVs and being a reasonable programmer I decided I like a bit more control, so I replaced the Select with a Pi-Sprog, so I can use the Raspberry Pi I already had. Now I'm NMRA-compatible and can actually change CVs, speed-profile, play with the BEMF, all the good stuff. Love the Pi-Sprog too.

 

I haven't found a DCC decoder I really love though.  I have converter my locos using:

*2x Hornby Sapphire for two big(ish) 4-6-2s, one of them from '69 (1.6A stall current FTW) - works well, they can setup a nice speed-profile, but the controller is phisically big

*5x Hornby 8249 for the small locos. They work well, but turns out (since I bought the Sprog) the 8249 have almost no programmability. Considering how smooth I managed to tune the Sapphire to work

 

 I'd love to be able to adjust the speed curve. I just tried LaissDCC 8-pin, the one at 10 quid on ebay. The thing has all the options, bemf and profiling, except it just doesn't work. It didn't work with the Select (no NMRA), but it doesn't with the Sprog either. Best I had is having one loco working choppy and only backwards; changed the address from 3 to 5 and didn't work at all any more. Swap the loco back to 8249 and the loco is perfect again.

 

So there's my little trip down the DCC lane. If you read up to this point, many thanks. My question would be what decoder would you go for a 1A stall current loco that has BEMF and speed profile adjustment. The Laisdcc should fit the bill, but it doesn't seem to work for me. The ideal decoder needs to be small, similar to the 8249 and if it has at least one function for an LED I'd consider it a bonus.

 

Thanks!

 

Drago

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Lenz Standard, Zimo MX600R. These are the least money for good designs that are fully NMRA compliant, you'll notice the difference instantly.

[jpendle]

 Zimo, just choose the correct plug or wires.

 

John P

[dragosmp]

Hi, thanks for the quick replies

 

I searched Zimo and yes there are quite a few options, the difference being as far as I can see mostly in pinout and number of functions. They all take 1.5A current, which is ok. The MX600R seems to be available only from Germany though on ebay.

 

The Lenz, found a type called Standard+ on 652 plug and it can do 2A, but also the seller is in DE on ebay.

 

Would you say ebay is a good place to buy them from? For more or less 20£:

Lenz

Zimo

[TheKeg]

28 minutes ago, dragosmp said:

 

Would you say ebay is a good place to buy them from? For more or less 20£:

Lenz

Zimo

I would try and deal with a U.K. based retailer. Then if there are any problems with the decoders you buy it’s a lot easier to get support.

Digitrains, Costal Dcc, etc there’s plenty of good retailers out there.

[gordon s]

I would agree with Zimo and particularly the MX600R, although they are like gold dust these days. At £20 they are good value for the quality of the product. I also use the MX623R which is available around £28.

[barrymx5]

Try Youchoos for Zimo. They were early in the field with these excellent decoders. 

[Harlequin]

Zimo every time and Youchoos are a great supplier, although unfortunately they are out of stock of MX600R at the moment:

https://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Shop.php?L1=StdDecos

 

P.S. I'm a programmer as well and I also plumped for the Pi-Sprog which is a great bit of kit. Shame about the techy software though!

 

[barrymx5]

12 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Zimo every time and Youchoos are a great supplier, although unfortunately they are out of stock of MX600R at the moment:

https://www.youchoos.co.uk/Index-Shop.php?L1=StdDecos

 

 

Thanks Harlequin. I should have checked. 
Would another approach be the Bachmann rebadged Zimo from Kernow?

Cost £26.95. I am running one on an O2 and it's very smooth. 
Spec:

36-568A Bachmann 6 Pin DCC Loco-Decoder with Back EMF with Railcom.

0.8 Amp continuous Current    

1.5 Amp Peak Motor Current    

4 Function Outputs - Amplified (0.5 Amps Each / Total) plus 2 Logic,       susi or Servo outputs    

New Brake Functions on F2 to allow deceleration control    

Long Addressing    

Multiple Programming Options    

Consist Option (Double Heading)    

Railcom Compatible    

Made By Zimo    

DC Operation    

User Defined Speed Curve    

Size – 14mm / 9mm / 2.5mm

[Pete the Elaner]

Another vote for Zimo MX600. A much better decoder than the budget ones for not much more cost.

I didn't know they were unavailable at the moment, but I'm not surprised because they are imported (from Austria).

 

A situation like the current lockdown highlights how short-sighted the UK has been to rely increasingly heavily on imported goods.

[dragosmp]

Hi all, thanks for the great options. Zimo is a house favourite then, so I'll try to make this work. The 600R seems to be out of stock everywhere. MX623R is ever so slightly too much for what I need, but a good option.

 

What do you think of the MX617 ? Seems very similar to the Bachmann 36-568A in terms of power and pin-out and prices are in the ballpark. Would you say Zimo 617 is a 600R with 6-pin rather than 8? I haven't checked, but maybe the difference is just two less ground pins, which won't be an issue.

 

*EDIT: from the Zimo manual:

"All ZIMO decoders are equipped with temperature sensors to measure their own operating temperature. Power to the motor will be turned off once that temperature exceeds 1000C. The headlights start flashing rapidly, at about 5 Hz, to makethis state visible to the operator. Motor control will resume automatically af-ter a drop in temperature of about 200C, typically inabout 30 seconds"

 

...this level of engineering is just good to see

Edited May 13, 2020 by dragosmp
*typo

[RFS]

17 minutes ago, dragosmp said:

What do you think of the MX617 ? Seems very similar to the Bachmann 36-568A in terms of power and pin-out and prices are in the ballpark. Would you say Zimo 617 is a 600R with 6-pin rather than 8? I haven't checked, but maybe the difference is just two less ground pins, which won't be an issue.

 

Zimo have a range of "economy" decoders at £20 each which all have same motor control firmware. The only difference is the number of pins, and of course functions. At present this decoder range consists of 6-pin  (MX617), 8-pin (MX600 and MX600R), 21-pin (MX638) , Next18  (MX618N18 ) and MX637 (PluX22). Note the MX600 is wires only and MX600R is with the 8-pin plug.

[Izzy]

The main difference is that a 6-pin uses half-wave rectification for the lighting, the black track lead/pin being the 'common return', while the 8-pin has the full-wave via the blue common. There is no normal 8th pin just the 7. So lighting with a 6-pin can be less bright, which can be useful/an advantage.

 

Izzy

[giz]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

Zimo have a range of "economy" decoders at £20 each which all have same motor control firmware. The only difference is the number of pins, and of course functions. At present this decoder range consists of 6-pin  (MX617), 8-pin (MX600 and MX600R), 21-pin (MX638) , Next18  (MX618N18 ) and MX637 (PluX22). Note the MX600 is wires only and MX600R is with the 8-pin plug.

There is also a PluX12 version of the MX600, not surprisingly called the MX600P12.

[dragosmp]

7 hours ago, Izzy said:

The main difference is that a 6-pin uses half-wave rectification for the lighting, the black track lead/pin being the 'common return', while the 8-pin has the full-wave via the blue common. There is no normal 8th pin just the 7. So lighting with a 6-pin can be less bright, which can be useful/an advantage.

 

Izzy

Thanks for the explanation. Haven't looked, but I'm sure someone asked once how you can switch from full to half wave to vary light brightness Not something I'm looking into for now, but I can see myself going down the rabit hole

 

7 hours ago, giz said:

There is also a PluX12 version of the MX600, not surprisingly called the MX600P12.

 

What does the  PluX do?

 

P.S. found the smiley button on the forum

[giz]

21 minutes ago, dragosmp said:

 

What does the  PluX do?

 

P.S. found the smiley button on the forum

It's a type of decoder socket that is supposed to be the new standard. Bachmann have started to use them, the new 158 has a Plux22 socket.

A Plux12 will fit a Plux22 socket but with reduced functionality as it will only have four functions. Depending on the model that may or may not matter, I have a Roco diesel loco which has a Plux22 socket that is fitted with a Zimo MX600P12 and the only loss is that the cab light doesn't work.

[dragosmp]

Hi all,

 

Two months later, here's how it turned out.

 

There seemed to be a bit of a consensus that Zimo controllers are good. Others too, but I ended up deciding for Zimo basically after seing the online manual. OK, they are a bit more expensive, but these three things go in its favour:

*detailed manual with technical explanation on how things work

*you do a bit of math and realise thet they must be using multi-layered PCBs to achieve the size and capability - which would go some way to explain the cost

*protected outputs - I am handy enough with electronics to know I mess it up sometimes, it's good to know the chip can take care of itself

 

I got initially 2x617f and a 623 (for variety) and boy was that a good experience. Bought them from YouChoos, again on your recomandations, and so far so good - flawless really.  I didn't even scratch the surface of 617's capabilities, but even in basic terms they're pretty good. Here's why:

*converted a 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 (00 Gauge) using the 617f. They work great, got them speed-matched and the funny thing is, for whatever reason now they make this purrrring noise when they go, as opposed to a sharper noise when using the previous Hornby 8249

*Pro-tip: you can take the wires off some ebay mini-JST connectors, the wires have a termination that fits the pins of the Zimo perfectly. Some shrink-tube and you get a 6-pin-to-wire adapter (ideal for conversions) for 20 peas. If you want I can add some pics

*had converted a 1970s Jouef loco using the 623. The motor was a bit dodgy as it sat for years, had to fully strip it down and clean as it barely worked in DC. For testing I used a 8249, but it was still choppy, as the speed-profile wasn't adjustable - it went slow-slow-slow-faaaaast. Using the 623 speed-map, now it is very smooth. Needed some BEMF fidling, too.

*Hornby Gordon R383 (from Thomas the Tank Enngine). Although a big train, this has a ridiculously small space in the tender. I had to use a 8249 for the last 6 months before the Zimo. Had a Sapphire hanging for a while, but couldn't package it in the tender. This has everything people hate - Ringfield motor, tender pushing, traction tires - you name it, Gordon R383has it. The motor was in a bad way (bought off ebay again), had to change brushes, springs, and was a pig to convert to DCC. Although in DC the motor was OK, it never really blended with the 8249. Now it uses a 617f, which you'd think it's a bit on the small side power-wise for a 4-6-2, but it runs extremely well. The speed-map needed a bit of tweaking, as for the old Jouef.

 

Now I have another 4-6-2 I'm not to happy about the way it runs and a 617f waiting to go in. A note - the 617f is recommended for N-gauge; I only used them on 00-s, and big ones at that. The 0.8-1.5A drive current is the key - 617s are more capable than the 8249, so if that works, the 617 should too.

 

I use the 618MX configuration template on the Pi-Sprog with PanelPro to edit the Roster and the CVs.

 

I guess I'm sold on Zimo. Haven't been paid by Zimo/YouChoos or gotten any discount to say this,  there's just a story that had to be said. I had used LaissDCC, Horby Sapphire and 8249s and now I don't need to. I still feel the Zimos are a bit expensive, twice the price of a LaissDCC, but when you take into accound the price of the loco and the quality of the Zimo, it's actually a good deal, even if you use no function at all! And then there are the functions, which I hope to discover soon.

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by dragosmp
*edit: typo

[barrymx5]

On 28/07/2020 at 10:51, dragosmp said:

 

 

I guess I'm sold on Zimo. Haven't been paid by Zimo/YouChoos or gotten any discount to say this,  there's just a story that had to be said. I had used LaissDCC, Horby Sapphire and 8249s and now I don't need to. I still feel the Zimos are a bit expensive, twice the price of a LaissDCC, but when you take into accound the price of the loco and the quality of the Zimo, it's actually a good deal, even if you use no function at all! And then there are the functions, which I hope to discover soon.

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

 

 

Echoes of my experience with Youchoos and Zimo. Excellent. 
 

regards

 

Barry