Can you identify where...

[jcredfer]

I thought a small challenge, might lead to others later.  I suggest that one plan is identified at a time, with other unusual places following, identification of the previous.

From the plan and clues, can you identify which Station is drawn on the plan?  Sidings date from 1919[?] to C1990, currently with the single through and the loop now just a siding with points at the Western end removed.

   
    N.B. The distances are somewhat compressed, but he proportions are as close as I could get.

Good luck.
Julian

[Ruffnut Thorston]

With no signals, one engine in steam operation?

 

The gods loved it....sounds

like a brand name for milk based puddings may be involved.

 

Otherwise, not a clue...

[40F]

Severn Beach ?

[The Stationmaster]

50 minutes ago, 40F said:

Severn Beach ?

No level crossing so I doubt it's Severn Beach

[melmoth]

Yeoford

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

I thought a small challenge, might lead to others later.  I suggest that one plan is identified at a time, with other unusual places following, identification of the previous.

From the plan and clues, can you identify which Station is drawn on the plan?  Sidings date from 1919[?] to C1990, currently with the single through and the loop now just a siding with points at the Western end removed.

   
    N.B. The distances are somewhat compressed, but he proportions are as close as I could get.

Good luck.
Julian

Why can't I see the plan? If I click where the plan should be, it flashes on the screen momentarily, then disappears. 

[The Stationmaster]

Lapford.

[Caley739]

Lifton, Devon with the Ambrosia factory.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Caley739

[jcredfer]

1 hour ago, melmoth said:

Yeoford

 

Well done, very close.

39 minutes ago, Caley739 said:

Lifton, Devon with the Ambrosia factory?

 

Also very close.

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Lapford.

 

Not just close, but spot on.  

 

Around the time Ambrosia moved their operations from Lapford to combine with a newbuild at Lifton, the line collected the name Tarker, after the Otter story, which was based on the valleys the line runs through.

 

Well done Ruff, too, one engine in steam.  Either end of the single line there was double line working, so it must have been quite a compromise setup.

 

Regards

Julian

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by jcredfer

[jcredfer]

3 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Why can't I see the plan? If I click where the plan should be, it flashes on the screen momentarily, then disappears. 

Hi,

I've had the same problem a time or two, on one of the browsers I use.  It doesn't seem to be Firefox - that has other issues!  Google does it occasionaly and so does edge.  I've given up on edge, it's a mess, which may be an issue with my computer, but I don't care, so it doesn't get used.

 

Julian

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Ok for me on Firefox, on a smartphone!

 

 

 

[jcredfer]

Mine is Ok on the apple MacBook, too.

 

Julian

 

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, jcredfer said:

Hi,

I've had the same problem a time or two, on one of the browsers I use.  It doesn't seem to be Firefox - that has other issues!  Google does it occasionaly and so does edge.  I've given up on edge, it's a mess, which may be an issue with my computer, but I don't care, so it doesn't get used.

 

Julian

 

I'm using Google Chrome and is the latest 64 bit version.

 

I fired up FireFox and it works. I avoid Edge like the plague!

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

Well done, very close.

 

Also very close.

 

Not just close, but spot on.  

 

Around the time Ambrosia moved their operations from Lapford to combine with a newbuild at Lifton, the line collected the name Tarker, after the Otter story, which was based on the valleys the line runs through.

 

Well done Ruff, too, one engine in steam.  Either end of the single line there was double line working, so it must have been quite a compromise setup.

 

Regards

Julian

 

 

 

 

 

The image works ok on Safari.

 

One point the line is very definitely not worked  by the One Train Working' (OTW) system (modern name for 'One Engine In Steam', OES,  but was worked under the Electric Token system until Eggesford signal box was closed at which time it appears to have been altered to the No Signalman Key Token (Remote) system, abbreviated to NSKT[R].   The fertiliser train to Lapford was definitely still running until c.1990 and had to be shut in clear of the single line because it couldn't clear the section before the next passenger train was due (definitely the case in one timetable period, probably more).    That would have been impossible with OTW working.

[stewartingram]

Never had that on Edge. Used to have problems in a number of ways with Firefox on the works laptop. Personally,, I stick with Microsoft.

 

Stewart

[jcredfer]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The image works ok on Safari.

 

One point the line is very definitely not worked  by the One Train Working' (OTW) system (modern name for 'One Engine In Steam', OES,  but was worked under the Electric Token system until Eggesford signal box was closed at which time it appears to have been altered to the No Signalman Key Token (Remote) system, abbreviated to NSKT[R].   The fertiliser train to Lapford was definitely still running until c.1990 and had to be shut in clear of the single line because it couldn't clear the section before the next passenger train was due (definitely the case in one timetable period, probably more).    That would have been impossible with OTW working.

 

Thank you for the modern working changes.  It appears that they still operate that Remote Token system now and Crediton was mentioned as the Manned other end of the system [Morchard, Yeoford and Copplestone boxes all closed}. 

 

It's an oddity in many ways, as the line between Morchard Road and Eggesford was always single, whereas other lines twards Barnstaple and to Exeter were double track {no longer the case}.  It also looks as if the intention had been for the section to be double, too, as all the bridges over, are built for double.  It also started out with a signal box  which was opposite the Down end of the main platform and  signals clearly visible in pictures of the time.  It was there, initialy when the Ambrosia factory sidings were built about 1928, but not there in slightly later pictures, or since.  There are a couple of later pictures, one of which is dated 63, which show the signals no longer there.  At some point after that the box was removed, too.  Once the signals were removed, sometime between 1928 and 1963, there is mention of them taking a token from Morchard Road, to take empty wagons to the sidings and run the full milk wagons {minimum 3 per day} and vans for their other, packaged, products back to Morchard.  The whole section must have locked out any other traffic, whilst that work was done.  It does seem a little strange, but It was never a really busy line.

 

The fertiliser trains started in 75, when the Ambrosia factory closed and the points at the Down end of the Loop removed in 2012, leaving the long siding, which remains.

 

Julian

 

[The Stationmaster]

Lapford signal box was taken out of use some time between September 1969 and November 1970 according to official information and a dated photo in the RCTS collection confirms that it was still operational in April 1970.  There is another photo currently offered for sale on the 'net which shows the station with a DMU in blue livery so definitely post 1963.  The Instruction regarding trains being shut-in using an intermediate token instrument dates from the closure of Lapford signal box in 1970 but that might have ceased when the NST(R) working was introduced with the closure of Eggesford signal box in the late 1980s.  I can recall there we made some alterations to the working of the Lapford fertiliser train about that time although I can't remember the detail.

[melmerby]

 

On 21/06/2020 at 14:25, kevinlms said:

Why can't I see the plan? If I click where the plan should be, it flashes on the screen momentarily, then disappears. 

Fine on IE 11

 

Just tried it to be a bit left field, I normally use FF.

[Ramblin Rich]

On 22/06/2020 at 17:28, jcredfer said:

 

Thank you for the modern working changes.  It appears that they still operate that Remote Token system now and Crediton was mentioned as the Manned other end of the system [Morchard, Yeoford and Copplestone boxes all closed}. 

 

It's an oddity in many ways, as the line between Morchard Road and Eggesford was always single, whereas other lines twards Barnstaple and to Exeter were double track {no longer the case}.  It also looks as if the intention had been for the section to be double, too, as all the bridges over, are built for double.  It also started out with a signal box  which was opposite the Down end of the main platform and  signals clearly visible in pictures of the time.  It was there, initialy when the Ambrosia factory sidings were built about 1928, but not there in slightly later pictures, or since.  There are a couple of later pictures, one of which is dated 63, which show the signals no longer there.  At some point after that the box was removed, too.  Once the signals were removed, sometime between 1928 and 1963, there is mention of them taking a token from Morchard Road, to take empty wagons to the sidings and run the full milk wagons {minimum 3 per day} and vans for their other, packaged, products back to Morchard.  The whole section must have locked out any other traffic, whilst that work was done.  It does seem a little strange, but It was never a really busy line.

 

The fertiliser trains started in 75, when the Ambrosia factory closed and the points at the Down end of the Loop removed in 2012, leaving the long siding, which remains.

 

Julian

 

 I missed this discussion completely as it's not a thread I've looked at before but I recognised Lapford immediately! I had a planning thread several years ago when I was contemplating a version of Lapford and took some pictures in 2012, see here

The sidings had been completely removed by then & there was only the single line, but there was still a sign showing 'Limit of Lapford token'. I remember some discussion (possibly on previous incarnation of RMweb) that the short Lapford token could be issued from Crediton signal box, which allowed operation of the ground frames at Lapford and possibly could allow the train to be 'locked in' the sidings to allow other traffic past. The 'Past and Present: The Tarka Line' book states that the Ambrosia factory closed in 1970 (when they moved to Lifton) and the signal box closed in July 1970.

The fertilizer traffic ended in 1993; there had also been grain traffic inwards & timber outwards during the mid 1980s. Fascinating really for a small wayside station to retain goods traffic that long!

[Ramblin Rich]

A couple of other points - the line is a bit of a pet subject

The single line section was from Copplestone all the way to Umberleigh, with loops at Morchard Rd, Lapford, Eggesford, Kings Nympton & Portsmouth Arms. The LSWR did intend to double track throughout, as said a lot of the underbridges were built as such, but when the GWR arrived in Barnstaple from Taunton & took running rights to Ilfracombe, the LSWR & GWR had a traffic sharing agreement which included not developing either route to take traffic from the other. So the LSWR never laid the second track & passing trains at the intermediate stations was always troublesome, especially on busy summer Saturdays. Not helped by a lot of loops being short, causing trains to have to reverse into layby sidings....

[jcredfer]

Rich, many thanks for all that detail.  The Short Lapford Token is very interesting and makes much sense, given the, lack of, room for shunting the four sidings.  I never knew that the single line was more than Morchard Road to Eggesford, as the view from the bridges was close to the stations in-between and the Coleford bridge was just outside that length of single line.

 

We used to cycle / later drive to Lapford and other places in the local area and the idea of a {near} model has nagged for a long time.  There can't be many rural villages, along rural Branch lines, sporting a big factory with, not one but four sidings.  I used to share time at the Bar of the New Inn, in Coleford, with the gentleman who was the milk quality superintendent at Ambrosia.  He saw each churn / road tanker load into the factory, charged with rejecting milk with any impurity and could, not only identify a batch with a blood spot concealed within, but knew which farm any batch was from...  remarkable skills.

 

Julian