The Night Mail

[Adam88]

8 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I'd put good money on their being several die-hards who blew a few gaskets when they saw that.

 

IIRC (I don't remember the details - anyone?) that when Flying Scotsman was painted in the "wrong" colour (whatever that was) the owner received death threats.

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

[Adam88]

On 14/07/2023 at 22:46, Dave Hunt said:

 

I became quite fascinated with the whole history of railways in the West Highlands, especially the proposed Glasgow North Western and the potential of extending the Invergarry & Fort Augustus to Inverness. On a family holiday to Scotland in 1981 I spent a whole day exploring the route of the I&FA, finding such things as the piers of a viaduct, remains of bridges and parts of the trackbed while Jill entertained the kids. That cost me more than a few brownie points!

 

Dave  

 

Have you followed it up by (re-)watching this BBC classic?

 

 

I just noticed that there is even some Radiophonic music (pre-Delia Derbyshire apparently, but redolent of Dr Who) playing in the title shot and 21:12.

 

[Dave Hunt]

No, I’ve never seen that before. Thanks for posting it.

 

Dave

[polybear]

37 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

 

Long before they got their Mitts on it I think.

 

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Belgium was going to split into two countries

I thought that had happened centuries ago.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, Adam88 said:

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

Try the Welsh National Industrial and Maritime Museum in Cardiff  and weep when you see how the Welsh Government destroyed a fabulous museum in a wonderful setting  at the entrance to Cardiff docks.

 

It dispersed some of the collection to Swansea, whilst the rest all went into store at Nantgarw with little hope of it ever being seen again by the general public.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, Adam88 said:

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

Easy!

• Dumb it down
• Ignore those visitors who love railways whilst “reaching out” to those who have absolutely no interest in either railways or visiting a museum.
• Make it “relevant”
• ”de-colonise” it
• install cheap and soon-broken interactive media
• Allow the “gift shop” to grow like a cancer and take up ever increasing amounts of museum floor space.
• Stock said “gift shop” with cheap trashy and tacky items, 90% of which have nothing to do with railways.

Trust me, it’s a tried and true approach.

[TheQ]

On 14/07/2023 at 07:22, polybear said:

 

Bear's very first jolly with The Great Empire was in Dec '85/Jan '86 and we were working at a Radar Test Site** on top of a cliff directly opposite Bass Rock Lighthouse - any closer and we'd be in the drink.  In those days the Lighthouse was still manned (it became automatic in 1988 apparently).

 

**Possibly @TheQ knows it?

 

Admiralty Research Establishment Tantallon? Been past, not to it.

[polybear]

3 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Admiralty Research Establishment Tantallon? Been past, not to it.

 

That's the place, right next to Tantallon Castle.  A Good Jolly.

A look at Google Maps Satellite View suggests it's out of use now - the car parks look very, very empty.  It was 38 years ago that I worked there though

Edited July 16, 2023 by polybear

[Northmoor]

18 hours ago, zarniwhoop said:

Sounds like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Serriffe but that was in the Grauniad.

 

Thanks for the clarification; I particularly like this line from the Wikipedia page:

"Editor Peter Preston received letters of complaint from airlines and travel agents due to the disruption caused by customers who refused to believe the islands did not exist."

There are some people who really shouldn't be allowed to use a knife and fork without supervision.

[iL Dottore]

20 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Thanks for the clarification; I particularly like this line from the Wikipedia page:

"Editor Peter Preston received letters of complaint from airlines and travel agents due to the disruption caused by customers who refused to believe the islands did not exist."

There are some people who really shouldn't be allowed to use a knife and fork without supervision.

Or breed…

[iL Dottore]

3 hours ago, Adam88 said:

 

Have you followed it up by (re-)watching this BBC classic?

 

 

I just noticed that there is even some Radiophonic music (pre-Delia Derbyshire apparently, but redolent of Dr Who) playing in the title shot and 21:12.

 

I watched this film whilst eating my supper tonight and I have to say it raised quite a few melancholic thoughts about how much of Britain’s Railway Heritage (and the sacrifice of all who built it) was so casually thrown away by Politicians in Westminster.
 

Nowadays no government, of whatever political persuasion, would ever countenance the sort of investment in materials, and especially manpower, in serving small communities with a decent railway system.  Japan manages to do it, India and Pakistan manage to do it. So what happened Britain?
 

It seemed to me, watching the film, that Britain has lost so much since then; certainly there have been numerous improvements in how Britain lives since then, but things the things that stand out are those things that were once commonplace and are now all so rare: well-behaved children, no morbidly, obese passengers, clean and tidy villages and communities, decently dressed people (no shell suits or obese females squeezed into too small leggings and crop tops)….

[Hroth]

8 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I watched this film whilst eating my supper tonight and I have to say it raised quite a few melancholic thoughts about how much of Britain’s Railway Heritage (and the sacrifice of all who built it) was so casually thrown away by Politicians in Westminster.
 

Nowadays no government, of whatever political persuasion, would ever countenance the sort of investment in materials, and especially manpower, in serving small communities with a decent railway system.  Japan manages to do it, India and Pakistan manage to do it. So what happened Britain?
 

It seemed to me, watching the film, that Britain has lost so much since then; certainly there have been numerous improvements in how Britain lives since then, but things the things that stand out are those things that were once commonplace and are now all so rare: well-behaved children, no morbidly, obese passengers, clean and tidy villages and communities, decently dressed people (no shell suits or obese females squeezed into too small leggings and crop tops)….

 

Not just the females, but generously proportioned middle aged blokes wearing ratty shorts, tshirts and a baseball cap. They might feel comfortable, but they don't have to look at themselves!

 

Its all a race to the bottom.

 

[ian@stenochs]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Easy!

• Dumb it down
• Ignore those visitors who love railways whilst “reaching out” to those who have absolutely no interest in either railways or visiting a museum.
• Make it “relevant”
• ”de-colonise” it
• install cheap and soon-broken interactive media
• Allow the “gift shop” to grow like a cancer and take up ever increasing amounts of museum floor space.
• Stock said “gift shop” with cheap trashy and tacky items, 90% of which have nothing to do with railways.

Trust me, it’s a tried and true approach.

 

Absolutely spot on.  Glasgow did the same with the excellent transport museum in the Kelvin Hall.  Built a new 'prize winning design' mega expensive building which is too small to display most of the collection. Now the vintage cars are on little shelfs, like toy cars, bikes hang from the ceiling and the locomotives are surrounded with cases and boards so they cannot be viewed properly. One exeption is the Drummond pug which is stuck halfway up a wall peeking out like a mouse from its hole.

It boasts excellent visitor numbers but they are mostly made up from creches and disabled groups because entry is free, warm and there is a cafe!

Ian.

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Easy!

• Dumb it down
• Ignore those visitors who love railways whilst “reaching out” to those who have absolutely no interest in either railways or visiting a museum.
• Make it “relevant”
• ”de-colonise” it
• install cheap and soon-broken interactive media
• Allow the “gift shop” to grow like a cancer and take up ever increasing amounts of museum floor space.
• Stock said “gift shop” with cheap trashy and tacky items, 90% of which have nothing to do with railways.

Trust me, it’s a tried and true approach.

 

Or, leave in the hands of enthusiasts, who will squabble endlessly and never put out an exhibit because the moment they do, another enthusiast will scream them down. Right up until the money runs out, and the whole lot goes for scrap.

[Dave Hunt]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

There are some people who really shouldn't be allowed to use a knife and fork without supervision.

 

I disagree; make sure the knife is very sharp and the tines on the fork lethally pointed and there may be fewer of them.

 

Dave

Edited July 16, 2023 by Dave Hunt

[Dave Hunt]

4 hours ago, Adam88 said:

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

 

Put it in York.

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

36 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Not just the females, but generously proportioned middle aged blokes wearing ratty shorts, tshirts and a baseball cap. They might feel comfortable, but they don't have to look at themselves!

 

Its all a race to the bottom.

 

I know what you mean.

 

Considering I am in my sixth decade, few can emulate my fine physique and undeniably good looks:

 

 

People look at me and say 'Oh God!'

 

I appreciate the compliment, but I have to assure them I am no deity. (Or diety for that matter!)

[New Haven Neil]

27 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or, leave in the hands of enthusiasts, who will squabble endlessly and never put out an exhibit because the moment they do, another enthusiast will scream them down. Right up until the money runs out, and the whole lot goes for scrap.

 

Oh, Llangollen. 🤬  Or Corwen station canopy, to the point.  Seemingly sorted now thankfully.

[Hroth]

21 hours ago, Adam88 said:

 

How can you kill a railway museum?

 

 

By deciding to dumb down the technological and developmental aspects and the story they tell, and over-emphasise the social history aspects in the name of relevance* (to whom is not apparent**).

 

Key exhibits must be put into store or sold off to make room for curatorial office space, primary coloured interactive areas, and various retail opportunities.

 

* Hey kids! Dress up as Victorians!

** The visitors or the sensibilities of the curators?

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Hroth
Just thought of more betty noirs.... And more!

[Happy Hippo]

16 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Or, leave in the hands of enthusiasts, who will squabble endlessly and never put out an exhibit because the moment they do, another enthusiast will scream them down. Right up until the money runs out, and the whole lot goes for scrap.

Spot on!

 

The best facilities are where you have professional administrators who gently temper the enthusiasm of volunteers and direct it in a meaningful direction, whilst at the same time having the grace and common sense to tap into the technical knowledge of their staff and the volunteers who support the museum and it's aims.

 

I suppose in a way it's why I've dropped away from my local model railway club.  I didn't like the petty politicking that went on and the fact the club members would not listen to advice, which was based on common sense and experience, and not on a regional or pre grouping bias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adam88]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Easy!

• Dumb it down
• Ignore those visitors who love railways whilst “reaching out” to those who have absolutely no interest in either railways or visiting a museum.
• Make it “relevant”
• ”de-colonise” it
• install cheap and soon-broken interactive media
• Allow the “gift shop” to grow like a cancer and take up ever increasing amounts of museum floor space.
• Stock said “gift shop” with cheap trashy and tacky items, 90% of which have nothing to do with railways.

Trust me, it’s a tried and true approach.

 

Don't forget various curators, trustees and managers and their occasional malign influence.  A long time ago I went to see an exhibition at the National Maritime Museum relating to the great age of Antarctic exploration, focussing on Shackleton and it was very poor.  Around the same time I went to a similar exhibition at Shackleton's alma mater, Dulwich College. which had been put together by one of the masters there, Jan Piggott, and it was superb.  It appeared that all avenues had been explored to find relevant artefacts and documents to display.  The catlogue which could simply have been little more than a booklet with captioned photographs was a real tour de force.  I see that he has published several history books on a variety of subjects, perhaps the teaching was just a sideline.  He certainly curated a very enjoyable and interesting exhibition.

 

In my very humble opinion the NMM went down when they scrapped the paddle tug Reliant.  I have never had any professional connection with any museum so, as @Phil Parker suggested above, perhaps I should keep quiet.  It's a bit like education - everyone has been to school therefore everyone has views on education - whether they should express them or try to influence the associated processes is another question.

[New Haven Neil]

re City of Truro in BR MT black, that was funny, but not as funny as the vitriolic GW Green tinted letter responses shortly afterwards. 😁

 

However....I expected the same after painting this, but in fact got a lot of positive responses.

 

[Happy Hippo]

Neil,

 

What's not to like?

 

It looks very smart and workmanlike.

 

However, if all the fleet belong to the same railway, then the paint shop foreman must be pulling his hair out when it comes to supplying paint for the  various locos.

[Hroth]

14 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Spot on!

 

The best facilities are where you have professional administrators who gently temper the enthusiasm of volunteers and direct it in a meaningful direction, whilst at the same time having the grace and common sense to tap into the technical knowledge of their staff and the volunteers who support the museum and it's aims.

 

I suppose in a way it's why I've dropped away from my local model railway club.  I didn't like the petty politicking that went on and the fact the club members would not listen to advice, which was based on common sense and experience, and not on a regional or pre grouping bias.

 

 

Clubs!

 

They're all as bad as each other.

 

Photography clubs are a case in point.  Cliques form, if you dont have "X" or "Y" then you're out of touch, and in club competitions its best to stick to the novice/intermediate classes otherwise you'll be savaged.

 

I believe some model railway clubs are more welcoming...

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Hroth
spelin