009 micro modeller Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 4 hours ago, whart57 said: I am also aware of cases where the production methods used in "Joe's Works"... Not to be confused with Joe Works (Japanese H0n30), of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said: Not to be confused with Joe Works (Japanese H0n30), of course. Well I do presume that Japanese Joe Works' processes do not involve a bucket on a rope. They are a class outfit aren't they? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fail safe Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 I am reliably informed there have been calls for the Guild management committee elections to be halted due to skulduggery amongst the ranks of the management. Doesn't surprise me. Glad I'm not part of it any more. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 14/08/2020 at 15:24, chris p bacon said: When is the election? I am presuming that it is all postal voting with votes counted by an independant 3rd party. Have you noticed the recent deterioration in the efficiency of the post? ... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 14/08/2020 at 16:11, polybear said: When will the result be known/voting close? At the AGM one would assume, as the following is copied from From the August 2020 Guild News 'Arrangements will be made for newly elected officers to take over from retiring members immediately following the announcement of the results of the votes' 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 On 14/08/2020 at 18:08, whart57 said: Well I do presume that Japanese Joe Works' processes do not involve a bucket on a rope. They are a class outfit aren't they? Were - don’t think they’re in production any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 48 minutes ago, fail safe said: I am reliably informed there have been calls for the Guild management committee elections to be halted due to skulduggery amongst the ranks of the management. Doesn't surprise me. Glad I'm not part of it any more. Out of interest, if the members do feel that the election has not been run fairly and properly, do they have recourse to any regulator or other third party? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2020 49 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: Out of interest, if the members do feel that the election has not been run fairly and properly, do they have recourse to any regulator or other third party? Not as far as I am aware as the Guild is a Limited Company and governed by Company Law. We have already been advised that the action of one of the Directors ( emailing friends advising them how to vote and asking them to spread the word to others ) was not unlawful but the general consensus was that it was unethical. However the latest unrest follows the revelation by a moderator of the Forum that he has information that he may make public when he resigns after the AGM. Mike 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Mike Bellamy said: We have already been advised that the action of one of the Directors ( emailing friends advising them how to vote and asking them to spread the word to others ) was not unlawful but the general consensus was that it was unethical. Then the Director should be asked to stand down as unfit to hold office, surely? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, polybear said: Then the Director should be asked to stand down as unfit to hold office, surely? We have had plenty of resignations this year already, one more won't make much of a difference. The trouble is the reasons for the resignation will be too late to influence the many people who will already have voted either electronically or with their voting slip in the mail. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 As Shakespeare Said there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. Marc 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 35 minutes ago, polybear said: Then the Director should be asked to stand down as unfit to hold office, surely? Except that the Director concerned and the management believe they haven't done anything wrong. Shades of 'it's not me that's out of step, it's everybody else'. Jim 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2020 This is all making me very sad. Modellers being so unpleasant to each other has never been a good thing in my book. Once the vote is finished with, I hope that both those who win or lose do so gracefully and put all this unpleasantness behind them and move on in a positive fashion. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, polybear said: Then the Director should be asked to stand down as unfit to hold office, surely? I have no axe to grind in this at all, but I always support reformers. However, it is perfectly legal and ethical for directors of a company to recomend how shareholders or members should vote. Indeed, directors have a legal obligation to act in the best interests of the company (as they see it) and that can often involve recommending candidates for election. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fail safe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 9 hours ago, ikcdab said: I have no axe to grind in this at all, but I always support reformers. However, it is perfectly legal and ethical for directors of a company to recomend how shareholders or members should vote. Indeed, directors have a legal obligation to act in the best interests of the company (as they see it) and that can often involve recommending candidates for election. Its become a bit more complicated than that. As I understand it this is not about an open and public recommendation as to who to vote for, which would be allowed, its about secretly emailing a third party to use personal email addresses from the database they have access to, to persuade and influence members in local area groups with a message and 'advice' on who not to vote for, with the reasons included, and as such is widely recognised as not legal or ethical. 1 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 This is sounding like it could turn from company law into criminal law, if this line hasn't been crossed already. If this is the case, discussions on a public forum such as this may be detrimental to any legal case that might come in the future. If members feel that they need to take this matter further, as they feel that the board of directors couldn't or wouldn't sort the problem out, they need to report this to company house or the police. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 hours ago, ikcdab said: I have no axe to grind in this at all, but I always support reformers. However, it is perfectly legal and ethical for directors of a company to recomend how shareholders or members should vote. Indeed, directors have a legal obligation to act in the best interests of the company (as they see it) and that can often involve recommending candidates for election. I believe there is a difference between the Directors (plural) making public recommendations as a statement from the Board, and an individual director issuing what is tantamount to an instruction on his own authority. Jim 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said: I believe there is a difference between the Directors (plural) making public recommendations as a statement from the Board, and an individual director issuing what is tantamount to an instruction on his own authority. Jim Yes, that makes more sense. I belong to a certain heritage railway where the association trustees were to be replaced. It took three EGMs to do so, but we got there in the end. On the first two, the vote was rigged and it wasn't until we got to the third which was run independently that they were voted out. Good luck. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, fail safe said: its about secretly emailing a third party to use personal email addresses from the database they have access to While I don’t want to get drawn into this, just impartially that sounds like a GDPR breach/non-compliant action if nothing else. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: While I don’t want to get drawn into this, just impartially that sounds like a GDPR breach/non-compliant action if nothing else. You need to think back to "first principles". An organisation may hold email addresses for the legitimate purposes of that organisation. However, this personal data must not be released outside of the organisation. Only of that happens is it a breach. So if the directors agreed to use the mailing list to contact members, then that is not a breach. But if the mailing list was used by a director in his private capacity to do this or if he released it to a third party, then that might be a breach. Either way, this won't help you though. It's important to you, but as far as the information commissioner's are concerned, it's small beer and unlikely to result in anything. I wish the reformers every success, but if you are unsuccessful, then you shouild go for an EGM. You have far more control and you get legal access to the mailing list and the right to write to members at the organisations expense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Seems to me that it's a good job the Guild isn't essential for today's O Scale modeller. The rest of us can just carry on as usual enjoying a great scale whilst this irrelevance blows up in it's own little tea cup.... 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 41 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said: Seems to me that it's a good job the Guild isn't essential for today's O Scale modeller. The rest of us can just carry on as usual enjoying a great scale whilst this irrelevance blows up in it's own little tea cup.... ABSOLUTELY ! I am so so personally comforted that my membership (ex) fee no longer supports this outdated organisation. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, ikcdab said: But if the mailing list was used by a director in his private capacity to do this or if he released it to a third party, then that might be a breach. Yes, that’s what I meant in my original comment, as it sounded like data had been shared or used for other purposes without consent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fail safe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, ROSSPOP said: ABSOLUTELY ! I am so so personally comforted that my membership (ex) fee no longer supports this outdated organisation. Me too, and soon there may well be a few more of us if the Reform candidates don't win seats. Even if they do there will be a massive up hill struggle to truly reform the Guild as the culture of secrecy is so embedded. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ52 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I think one of the problems is that the majority of the members do not access the forum and therefore are in complete ignorance of the issues. They get information from the Gazette and Guild News which are controlled by the Committee. It will wither and die without new blood. Terry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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