Old brick built garage further repair / maintenance advice please

[flockandroll]

I am kitted out thanks to Screwfix, also wellies.

Unable to get next door today. Tomorrow...

(oh, and the photo has rotated 180 °)

[flockandroll]

Less rain today!

 

[flockandroll]

I picked this brick to try first: not too high, not too low, just one by itself. 

However some of the most had gone, what was left was in good condition, and took more effort than I expected to get out (I will have muscles by the end of this!). Meanwhile, a nearby upright bit crumbled and feel out.

Here is the hole and the removed brick:

 

[flockandroll]

So I added water to the lime mortar and mixed. Aiming for something 'more doughy than a cement mortar' (is that right?). This was tricky, as due to the chemistry, if you leave it, it goes to crumbly granules, but if you squash it, it goes putty like.

Added plenty of water to brickwork and replacement brick. Added the mortar to the hole and to the brick. Added the brick. It all went went wrong  , I knocked brick in too far! Went inside and using a 3 foot piece of timber laid across the brickwork, knocked it back. Scrapped lime mortar off the floor back into my bucket. 

Back outside pointed/ repointed brick. Ran out of mortar, having dropped a lot, and some of it being too muddy to recycle into the bucket. Should I be using one of those things, what do you call them? Bit like a cake board with a handle underneath - I do have one.

Anyway, even by my standards it looks awful, but it's my first go with lime mortar. 

Am I supposed to give it a stiff brushing in a few hours? Or tomorrow? Or did I just imagine that?

Here is the brick from outside and in. Like I said, it doesn't look very attractive snd I ran out of mortar, will do some more tomorrow...

Thanks for reading and any feedback

[polybear]

Wiping the bricks carefully with a wet cloth should improve it no end; when it's dried off a bit (i.e. tomorrow) a gentle wire brushing (ideally with a brass brush) should works wonders if needed.

[simontaylor484]

Is it called a Hawk? 

[chris p bacon]

When you made up the lime putty did you put any sand in it ?  it needs to be 4 sand 1 lime.  To make it easier dunk the brick you are replacing in a bucket of water for a few seconds and wet the bricks you are putting the mortar on, this gives the mortar  longer to work. 

As you are not use to this,  the best way would be to remove the brick(s) and clean out, wet it and then just put mortar on the bed when you put it back, fill in the vertical joints (perps) and top joint when the brick is in place. You must take care not to get mortar on the face of the brick as it's awkward to clean off.

 

I've looked through some photo's from work and come up with a few which might help. I have shown these before but hopefully they're still useful.

 

I started with this as an external finish to a renovate, it was sandtex paint over brick. The scaffold boards are already 20+ feet in the air as this was a very tall building.

 

There were numerous repairs to carry out on all four faces of the building, the bricks were chopped out then put back with wedges until they were mortared in.

Where possible I would take out a section of bricks (this was a vent) as it was easier to blend in a larger area and it is easier to  replace them with only the top brick having to be jointed.

This is Andy* who works for me, I've tried to show how we point up, he has a trowel in his left hand which has the mortar on and he has a tool in his right hand to push the mortar off the trowel into the joint. You have a 'Hawk' but we find these too big for this type of job, they are for plastering/rendering.

 

This is after it has been repaired and re-pointed.

 

If you are wondering if there is a 'bow' in the brickwork ....there is.

This is my 6' level and it is touching the brick at the bottom it is 3"+ out of plumb over that measurement.

 

Hope that's of some help.

 

*Andy is available for weddings and bar mitzvahs....he's always plastered....

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by chris p bacon

[flockandroll]

Thank you chris p bacon, great advice and very helpful, pictures also.

(They also show you work to a very high standard)

 

I bought lime already mixed with sand that just needs water adding. Yes it's a bit more expensive but one less variable for me to worry about and should be less dusty for me.

 

Great tip about soaking the brick in a bucket of water.

 

Just putting the mortar on the bottom, then pointing the perps and top joint should help me be a lot tidier, thanks for that.

 

To get the new mortar to fix / bind / stick to the old, is it just wet the old, push in the new, and let some time pass... (with cement mortar I cheat and paint watery cement onto the old after wetting and before adding the new)

 

 

[flockandroll]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

touching the brick at the bottom it is 3"+ out of plumb over that measurement

Just shows how buildings move over time, or was it even vertical when built?

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, flockandroll said:

To get the new mortar to fix / bind / stick to the old, is it just wet the old, push in the new, and let some time pass... (with cement mortar I cheat and paint watery cement onto the old after wetting and before adding the new)

 

BOLD Essentially that's what you do, wetting the existing stops it drawing all the moisture from the new mortar and lets it set over time.

 

Re the cement slurry....I wouldn't do that, it has no strength and will just flake off in cold weather, better to rake out the joint to at least half to three quarter inch and repoint in one go.

 

 

1 hour ago, flockandroll said:

Just shows how buildings move over time, or was it even vertical when built?

It was vertical but a chimney was added approx 20 years into its life, it has no footings and when it got to the gable they raked it into the inside so all the weight was hanging off the gable. .......I'm often told "we don't build like they used to" ...I'm rather glad we don't sometimes ...

We strengthened the gable with a structural ply and stud wall inside, it's braced off the other gable so if one goes........run away...

Edited October 28, 2020 by chris p bacon

[polybear]

14 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I started with this as an external finish to a renovate, it was sandtex paint over brick.

 

 

This is after it has been repaired and re-pointed.

 

 

 

Hi Crispy,

What was the secret to removing the Santex please?

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Hi Crispy,

What was the secret to removing the Santex please?

Apologies to Flockandroll for going off topic on this one.

 

There is a bit of a story on this one, I wanted a local Company to do this as I'd seen his work (I'll call him'A') but no matter what I tried I just couldn't pin him down.  So I then searched out another company and was recommended a company from Bedford ('B') Company B turned up and gave me a detailed estimate of what would be required, esentially they would use a paste trowelled onto the bricks then cleaned off with a steam cleaner. They wanted £450 for the test area but said I'd get £250 off the quote if I went with them,  If the test was successful they quoted £11,000 for one covering of paste and one full steam clean. During the meeting I got the distinct impression I was being milked and so didn't pursue them, after a week the price dropped to £9500 then a few days later to £8500. As the price was dropping I asked what would happen if the first steam clean didn't take it all off, they said they would give it another partial clean for just £2000......

 

As I got the feeling I was being taken for a ride I went back to Company A and managed to get them to come and look at it. We met and had a discusson and while there he put 3 pastes on the wall as well as a small patch of acid/gel and said he'd be back in a few days to see what worked.  He came back as promised and the tests showed that the pastes just didn't work at all but the acid did. We arranged a date to start and I had the scaffold put up. They turned up and got on with the job, they covered a few square metres at a time with the acid then steamed it off, after the whole building had been done they then used pads on angle grinders to take off the soot and grime and then steam cleaned the building for a second time. I was extremely happy with the work and the finish which cost £5300 for 8 days work (2 men plus kit)  

 

When it was all finished I asked why they were reluctant to come in the first place, he said he wasn't sure it would all come off and he thought it a lot of money and I wouldn't want to pay it!

Here they are with the first acid strip and clean.

 

This was some of the worst after the strip and clean, next it will be buffed by the rotary pads. We have raked out the joints ready for repointing.

 

 

The same just before we struck the scaffold.  The eagle eyed will note we took a course off, this was to reduce the weight and it gave us spares for repairs.  It would have been nice to use stone for the capping but it's 30' up and the cost was just too much for what is essentially cheaper housing. 

 

[polybear]

15 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

As I got the feeling I was being taken for a ride I went back to Company A and managed to get them to come and look at it. We met and had a discusson and while there he put 3 pastes on the wall as well as a small patch of acid/gel and said he'd be back in a few days to see what worked.  He came back as promised and the tests showed that the pastes just didn't work at all but the acid did.
 

 

The same just before we struck the scaffold.  The eagle eyed will note we took a course off, this was to reduce the weight and it gave us spares for repairs.  It would have been nice to use stone for the capping but it's 30' up and the cost was just too much for what is essentially cheaper housing. 

 

 

Thanks Crispy, and apologies to FlockandRoll for going OT

Company B:  HOW MUCH??   It never ceases to amaze me just how many p1ss takers there are trying it on.....

Company A:  A really nice job; did you ever discover what the acid mix was, or did they keep that a secret?

As for taking a course off, naturally we spotted it straight away....

[chris p bacon]

6 hours ago, polybear said:

did you ever discover what the acid mix was, or did they keep that a secret?

 

It had the look and consistency of Nitromors but was considerably stronger, when they used it we kept well out of the way as it was really nasty stuff, but as soon as it was hit with water it was fine.

 

I'm not 100% sure but I think they said you had to be licensed to use it (we were on the footpath at the front)

[flockandroll]

All interesting stuff! 

Unfortunately myself and family have all had covid-19; fortunately we are all on the mend, but it will be some time before I can get on anything! 

[hayfield]

Sorry to hear of your illnesses, hope all recover fully soon.