SteveyDee68 Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) Those are fantastic shots, thank you - looking through the archive photos there are a few of the brewery but they always seem to be from above and usually looking across from the part of the site nearest the tip of the wet dock where the new cut swings around. There's an interesting little office building by the entrance gates with a railway line running into the brewery at an angle - not sure if that comes off a wagon turntable or not. After photos showing a fire, those buildings seem to disappear so I assume were demolished. Update Not now sure if we are talking about the same brewery... I'll try (again) to post links to the Flickr photos I think relate to @Angliacan’s photos of Old Cliffe Quay Brewery... Edited December 31, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Update message... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) Now, I spent some time putting links to various photographs in my kast last post abive, amd above, and then RMWeb decided to erase them all whilst I was still editing. I put a comment (well, you would, wouldn't you) as copying and pasting links isn't exactly quick, and then completed the last one before saving the last edit. Having calmed down, I thought I'd put the links back in but looking at that last post even the final edit I saved appears to have disappeared into the ether! Just wondering if anyone else has frequent messages that "There was a problem with this page, and it was reloaded" when using RMWeb? Maybe the website software doesn't like old iPads and old versions of Safari? Steve S Edited April 3, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Typos spotted long after posting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 Once again, twenty minutes of careful copy and pasting of links and descriptions have disappeared as I prepared to link the final photograph. Annoyingly, restarting the editor has not restored the content. Will be asking if there is a time limit for editing a post before the content is lost. Annoyed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 20 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: ... So please feel free to post up photos of Faversham Standard Quay - I know such "rabbit holes" can end up providing further unexpected inspiration (such as, in my case, the Snape Maltings, or Wells-Next-The-Sea for example.) Steve S Hi Steve, The Faversham Quay branch curved in through what is now a shipyard to the left of the large brick built building, with a timber loading siding where the boats are (crane, and piles and piles of timber). The line curved round the brick warehouse and in front of the custom house, before running along in front of the black timber warehouses, eventually to coal yards (no trace remains of these). There are photos of the individual warehouses on geograph (a great place to get lost if you've not used it) https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3212065 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3212076 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3014314 Neither of Faversham's large Breweries had their own rail sidings oddly. Shepherd Neame's is still in operation and is a wonderful mix of buildings, but probably a mess to model, whilst the George Rigden's building became Fremlins and got caught in Whitbread's tour of destruction (although most of the buildings show their brewery origins clearly). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 18 hours ago, Angliacan said: Well the building is the long closed fire damaged Tolly Cobbold Brewery Oh boy - a Google search for images of the above and I am in industrial architecture heaven! It certainly is another possibility, and would provide a huge contrast to existing planned buildings. Definitely going to be some hard thinking involved, as those roof shapes are anything but simple - the rear right siding may need to be run parallel to the baseboard if I am to avoid strangely curtailed rooflines at the backscene joint. Hmmmm.... HOURS OF RESEARCH FUN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) On 03/04/2021 at 06:35, ManofKent said: The Faversham Quay branch Thank you, @ManofKent, those images have a more low-key (sorry for that) feel to them, similar to Wells-Next-The-Sea but the brick warehouse shown doesn't over-dominate like that at WNTS. I'll be diving down this new rabbit hole for inspiration for Woodhey Quay, which I plan (eventually) to be built using code 75 rail and having a far more 'rural' feel than my present layout. (Nice to plan for the future!) Steve S Edited December 31, 2021 by SteveyDee68 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) Track and buildings have been reshuffled: I might even manage a sharply curved siding burying itself into the brewery complex, for even more scenic interest! Revisions at the left hand end of the layout may result in the R&W Paul's silo building appearing in a slightly narrowed form there, with the bridge over the tracks to the ship loading tower, more like the prototype. Cranfield Brothers warehouse to the right and then the Burtons building (three storeys high not four as previously mocked up!) before the new Tolly Cobbold inspired brewery complex. The huge Cranfield Bros silo may be relegated to the centre as a 'minimum depth' backscene element, linking the Burtons building and the brewery. Mock ups to follow, once I have drawn an impression of the brewery from photographs. The green building will move to the front right edge of the baseboard; I’m still deciding contemplating whether that should be supported above the track of the front siding or a solid structure. Steve S Edited April 4, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Typos, improved sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 (edited) If you're including a Brewery Complex don't forget real elephants: http://www.dover-kent.com/breweries/fremlins-brewery-maidstone.html Well one of Faversham's had real elephants at one point (it could be the Maidstone Brewery, but it looks like the Faversham site to be). Edited April 4, 2021 by ManofKent 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angliacan Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Whilst going through some other photos for a total different railway project I found a few photos I took around St Peter Quay, Albion Quay area of Ipswich Wet Dock when Cranfield’s was still working. Stoke Bridge Quay with corrugated gantry over entrance looking toward Ipswich Lower Yard. old view of a still working Wet Dock without any modern high-rise buildings. A working Cranfield’s Mill 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) Thanks again, @Angliacan - the photo of the gantry you provided has emphasised how much deeper front to back the upper part of the tower was compared to the lower (something I actually hadn’t picked up on before!!) Not so much modelling today as succumbing to eBay purchases - a Bachmann J72 (actually to replace the Mainline one I had for years until my cousin’s littlest tried to “friction push” it!) and a J15! So, I have numbers for Ipswich-based J15s (so a renumbering job is required), and I have also bought/ordered a J67/2 body with correct Ipswich shed number from CDC Models. I am busy building a Y6 tram* and also a pseudo-Drewery 04 tram loco from a Bachmann Junior ‘not-Thomas’ and Dapol kit; considering that Burnstow Dock is not supposed to be Ipswich, I seem to be trying to provide an Ipswich-appropriate loco stud! Meanwhile, I have redrawn the green building in PowerPoint, and am trawling through recent magazines in search of the drawings of brewery buildings from Burton in order to check that my design proportions are okay! HOURS OF FUN! Edited December 31, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) This is a useful site for photos on existing and closed breweries: http://breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page http://breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cobbold_%26_Co._Ltd There's an 'urban explorer' video of the derelict Tolly Cobbold Brewery I'm assuming you're just going to model a small part of a brewery with the rest implied as off scene? Edited April 5, 2021 by ManofKent 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) Thanks for the links - strangely enough, I’ve already explored most of what I can find with a search on Google! The urban expiration exploration * video is new though I had seen a series of photos from a similar exploration! Enjoy Easter Monday! Steve S * Exploration is far healthier than expiration! Edited April 7, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Really stupid typo!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastworld Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 On 03/04/2021 at 21:32, Angliacan said: Whilst going through some other photos for a total different railway project I found a few photos I took around St Peter Quay, Albion Quay area of Ipswich Wet Dock when Cranfield’s was still working. Stoke Bridge Quay with corrugated gantry over entrance looking toward Ipswich Lower Yard. old view of a still working Wet Dock without any modern high-rise buildings. A working Cranfield’s Mill I wish it still looked like that! Stu 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 7, 2021 Author Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) Tonight's adventures began as I tried to measure the piece of track to join the two opposing points currently joined with the diamond crossing leading to the front sidings - the point toes didn't line up! I'd made a schoolboy error, and suddenly my supposedly settled track plan was in jeopardy! What to do? WHAT to do?! Swap out the medium radius LH point feeding into the loop with a RH point - this instantly solved the issue with the misaligned loop. But now the loop wasn't a loop any longer! A small radius LH point at the heel of the RH point enabled the loop to be reinstated, but hard up against the baseboard edge! Putting a super short piece of straight track at the heel of the small radius LH point meant pushing all the track to the right, shortening the headshunt at the right hand side giving access to the rear left sidings. However, this could be seen as simply another complication for shunting the layout (and keep things awkward/interesting!) The front left sidings have been reduced to a single long siding running at an angle, which will be provided with a crane for unloading - along the lines of the following (from Ipswich): The front left corner of the baseboard will have an unloading tower and an overhead gantry linking it to a concrete silo (basically the Ipswich dock entrance!) - Moving along from left to right, the Cranfield Brothers mill buildings - with the extensions supported over the tracks - will cover two sidings, the rear of which running through to the fiddle yard (despite the shortened headshunt): The Burtons building will then follow at an angle, with the correct five floors (crikey - you'd think a maths teacher could count floors of a building!) An impression of the Tolly Cobbold Brewery building (as suggested by Angliacan) will follow, but reversed so that the lower building is on the left with the water tank linking it to the main building. (Ignore the pub in the foreground!) I'd like to wrap the complex around the right hand corner of the board to provide a natural "end stop" to the layout, but link the rear building to the front with an overhead gantry: My "green" building was based on another building on the wet dock; I am contemplating it undergoing a "Tolly Cobbold" architectural facelift to provide a ship unloading facility for the brewery at the front right of the layout. I have left these most recent tweaks overnight to see how they look tomorrow, but I may decide to swap out the small radius LH point at the start of the loop for a medium radius, and the point to the siding with a small radius RH - that way, all 'mainline' points are medium radius, and small radius are used into sidings. Hopefully that change will still leave a minimum length of track before the left baseboard edge! Should I keep all the current sidings, I will have six destinations, the minimum length siding being two wagons long (into the brewery). Alternatively, by leaving out the sharply curved siding into the brewery, I would have five sidings with a minimum capacity of four wagons on the shortest siding (again, that serving the brewery). Decisions, decisions... UPDATE I thought adding a few photos* might make this long post a little clearer to visualise - it certainly acts as a blueprint of my thoughts for me moving forward, for me to follow and attempt not to deviate from yet again! * What a palaver to add photos into the text - there must be an easier way than the one I use!! Edited April 7, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Added photos into text (what a job!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 7, 2021 Author Share Posted April 7, 2021 On 05/04/2021 at 04:02, ManofKent said: I'm assuming you're just going to model a small part of a brewery with the rest implied as off scene? I missed this when reading your original message! Having watched the video etc, I certainly can confirm that only a small part of the brewery complex will exist "on scene"! Shame not to be able to squeeze the "tap" onto my layout - somewhere for the dock workers to quench their thirst after a hard shift! Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, SteveyDee68 said: I missed this when reading your original message! Having watched the video etc, I certainly can confirm that only a small part of the brewery complex will exist "on scene"! Shame not to be able to squeeze the "tap" onto my layout - somewhere for the dock workers to quench their thirst after a hard shift! Steve S It looks quite a substantial site from the video - bigger than Harvey's down in Lewes which is the only Bradford designed brewery I've been round. Richard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) I keep misplacing images I think will be useful - sticking them here at least keeps them to hand! Burtons building - showing it in busier times and complete Train emerging from under the loading gantry (which hides up the narrower lower section) Early cab version of a Drewery 04 shunter? Short oil train showing colours of buildings (Badly) Edited J&W Paul building for left hand end of the layout Apologies if these images breach anyone's copyright - will take them down if necessary Edited April 8, 2021 by SteveyDee68 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 And in other news... Very excited to have received my CDC Models J67/2 body today, complete with correct loco number for an Ipswich loco! (Actually, the only J67/2 on shed, the others all being J67/1s!) Hope to get it onto its donor terrier chassis tomorrow and photograph it! Of course, now I've bought it I am bound to find photographic evidence that it was not a narrow cab example as per my selected body shell! (Also got my Bachmann J72 - totally not an Ipswich loco, but it replaces the Mainline version I bought in my late twenties (because it was the loco my Dad had wanted to me have as a kid!), sadly rendered inoperative by my cousin's youngest son!) HELLO - MY NAME IS STEVE, AND I'M A SHUNTERHOLIC! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 That's a nice set of photo's you've posted there Steve, very atmospheric 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 7 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Train emerging from under the loading gantry (which hides up the narrower lower section) Early cab version of a Drewery 04 shunter? Yes the Drewry / 04 is one of the original batch of four fitted with skirts for Wisbech and Yarmouth. I think a couple of the later batch were modified to add skirts for road use, but that one is definitely first batch. Interesting that the colour picture (03 ?) seems to lack shirts. Lovely picture of than Hunslet too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) Looking at the Hunslet shunter, I'm wondering whether the Bachmann Junior diesel shunter might stand in as an approximation? A very nicely tweaked example was sold on eBay a couple of days ago as a "class 05" - BR green livery, wasp stripes, clear windows etc, it looked the part.* I picked one up with the intention of altering it into a skirted 04 (as the wheels are way too big to be left on show!) but the engine bonnet is much bigger in all dimensions than the prototype. Now I'm wondering about tweaking the cab instead... Image added below showing the Bachmann Junior 0-6-0 diesel for comparison with the Hunslet above. * And just like that I discover that the eBay repaint job may have involved a little less work than I thought!! Just for ease of comparison, here's the Hunslet again, tweaked slightly for hopefully more detail. Definitely the right shape to the bonnet, but possibly too tall... Edited April 8, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Added photos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, ManofKent said: Interesting that the colour picture (03 ?) seems to lack shirts. I may be completely wrong, but didn't the regulations about street-worked railways change? Thinking also of class 07s at Southampton, and various "unskirted" locos over the Weymouth harbour line. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, or verify that with actual knowledge rather than my pub quiz level of guesswork! Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: Looking at the Hunslet shunter, I'm wondering whether the Bachmann Junior diesel shunter might stand in as an approximation? A very nicely tweaked example was sold on eBay a couple of days ago as a "class 05" - BR green livery, wasp stripes, clear windows etc, it looked the part.* I picked one up with the intention of altering it into a skirted 04 (as the wheels are way too big to be left on show!) but the engine bonnet is much bigger in all dimensions than the prototype. Now I'm wondering about tweaking the cab instead... I'm not sure what Bachmann have based that on - it does look more Hunslet than Drewry. The other option is to look for a Hejan 05, they used to be available very cheaply, although I don't remember a skirted version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: I may be completely wrong, but didn't the regulations about street-worked railways change? Thinking also of class 07s at Southampton, and various "unskirted" locos over the Weymouth harbour line. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, or verify that with actual knowledge rather than my pub quiz level of guesswork! Steve S I'm not sure what the regulations were - there are plenty of photos of unskirted B4's and P Class locos at Dover, the Diesel shunters seem to have been a mixed bag of skirted and unskirted but I couldn't date the photos to see if there was a change... Edited April 8, 2021 by ManofKent 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) As mentioned in@ManofKent’s thread about his new proper micro layout, I've tweaked the trackplan again very slightly - replacing the Y point at the rear left in front of the Cranfield Bros building with a left hand point, and removed the curved siding into the brewey as it was making awkward angles for the buildings. I am investigating putting a wagon turntable there instead, giving access into the brewery - whether that is purely scenic or working is another matter! Considering that I am a huge fan of Canute Road Quay and my layout is exactly the same length, it is going to end up with a totally different feel, due to the towering buildings from Ipswich. Meanwhile, I now have three spare Y points and a piece of 5mm foamboard exactly the same length as@ManofKent‘s proposed micro, and a huge urge to experiment! LOL! HOURS OF FUN! Edited December 31, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Typos, damned typos!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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