2021 hopes

[InterCity80s]

16 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

Their VEP was something of a disappointment (the face, poor motor and usual QC issues), while Bachmann would of course give you an all singing all dancing model that, while being more expensive than one from Hornby, would at least come without most if at all any of the issues that plagued the VEP (their TC Captures the BR MK1 EMU beautifully). Perhaps it would be an idea for Hornby to fix the VEP first and continue releasing that in some of the later guises (with appropriate mods) first. Eg. Stagecoach SWT / NSE, South West Trains, South Central and Connex South Eastern. 

I would definitely be interested in an updated VEP. Simon Kohler mentioned it in one of the recent Q&A videos and said they'd be open to it if there seemed to be demand.

[DutyDruid]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

<Talking about the difference between a 4CIG and a 4TC>

 

A lot of voltage and electrical equipment to start.

 

its comparing a mk1 Coach to a mk1 EMU.

I think there might be an IPR issue as well.

 

Wasn't the TC commissioned by Kernow?  AIUI when Bachmann do a "commission" like that they make and retain the tools but Kernow have "exclusive rights to their use" for a certain number of years afterwards, so even if there is a crossover between a CIG and a TC (and yes, there is some in the sense that the bodies might look similar externally but the internal layouts would be very different) I don't think Bachmann could use any of the TC tooling to produce a CIG or BIG until the original agreement with Kernow expires.

 

4CIG/4BIG page on SREMG: https://sremg.org.uk/emu/class421.shtml - DTC - TSO/TBUF - MBSO - DTC

4TC page on SREMG: https://sremg.org.uk/gallery/class438_1.html DTSO - TFK - TBSK - DTSO

 

Sadly, I'm in the middle of 2 house renovations and a house move so all my books (as well as the rest of my life like my Kernow TC and my unbuilt CIG kit) are in a shipping container on the lawn of the house we will eventually move into, so I'm afraid I can't check/verify any of these assertions beyond my rather ragged memories.

 

Elliott

[ThaneofFife]

Be good to see some new liveried Class 87s.    Granted a pair is unlikely but still a pair of inter-city executive liveried 87s,  one with cross arm pan and one with BW pan for those long double headed steel trains we used to see from Ravenscraig.  Doubt H would release 2 when there are plenty of other eras to cover.   A BR blue one with BW pan would be nice.  But before all that I would hope they make fitting decoders a littlel easier. 

 

Perhaps we could see Hornby  fitting their increasing better coaches with dcc lighting not just the cheapo 3 x bulb/LED lghts but full internal lighting that looks on a par with Bachmann especially their new Mk1 RBR coaches.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

10 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

Be good to see some new liveried Class 87s.    Granted a pair is unlikely but still a pair of inter-city executive liveried 87s,  one with cross arm pan and one with BW pan for those long double headed steel trains we used to see from Ravenscraig.  Doubt H would release 2 when there are plenty of other eras to cover.   A BR blue one with BW pan would be nice.  But before all that I would hope they make fitting decoders a littlel easier. 

 

Perhaps we could see Hornby  fitting their increasing better coaches with dcc lighting not just the cheapo 3 x bulb/LED lghts but full internal lighting that looks on a par with Bachmann especially their new Mk1 RBR coaches.

 

Hornby need to make two minor changes to the Class 87...

- Add more space for a DCC decoder/speaker
- Update them with the same sprung pantograph that the APT-P and Class 91 are getting.

[surfsup]

11 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Hornby need to make two minor changes to the Class 87...

- Add more space for a DCC decoder/speaker
- Update them with the same sprung pantograph that the APT-P and Class 91 are getting.

The third - Stop using those harsh bright white LEDs and switch to cool warm! It really is another feature that let's them down. 

[MGR Hooper!]

9 minutes ago, surfsup said:

The third - Stop using those harsh bright white LEDs and switch to cool warm! It really is another feature that let's them down. 

That's an easy fix IMHO and takes just a few mins to rectify. But I can see why it will bother some people.

[Robin Brasher]

Turning the clock back a few years since the introduction of the Class 87 Hornby could produce a couple of 60th anniversary sets of the Tri-ang Lord of the Isles complete with a smoke unit and the Hornby Dublo Barnstaple with Pullman cars car 74, Aries and car 79.

 

Lord of the Isles and the clerestory coaches paved the way for some pre-nationalisation trains whereas Barnstaple and the Pullmans seemed like the last word when they appeared although Barnstaple received a bad review from the Model Railway Constructor.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Robin Brasher
2021-1961 = 60

[wombatofludham]

5 hours ago, InterCity80s said:

I would definitely be interested in an updated VEP. Simon Kohler mentioned it in one of the recent Q&A videos and said they'd be open to it if there seemed to be demand.

Perhaps Mr K should pop over to TatBay and enter "VEP" into the search bar.  I would advise him to sit away from his desk to avoid any chance of injuring his jaw as it drops when he sees some of the prices being asked and achieved.

Whilst individual sales are in themselves affected by other factors, if you watch the prices over a time (as I have been as I would like some stabiliser-rail units for my next project) you spot a trend, and that trend is a pretty good proxy for demand as achieved sale prices reflect the willingness to pay for an item (if on buy it now) or auction sale price.  If there is low demand, items won't sell.  NSE units seem to be trending at between £200 and £300, plain blue at around the £150 median, and blue/grey are rocking horse dung rare and often start at just shy of £200 when they come up.  To me, the logic of those trends suggests that there is still demand for these units, despite the flaws many were raising on this and other forums, and suggests that more blue grey, NSE and the various post NSE liveries these units carried, even without any retooling, would be lapped up, but also suggests that a retooled version with better running gear would probably be worth a punt, given that people are prepared to pay north of £150 for the current model.

Ebay is probably the nearest thing we have to market demand set pricing for model railway items, and is in some ways a good barometer of demand for models, with more desirable items getting strong prices.  It's not perfect but is a good indicator.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

Turning the clock back a few years since the introduction of the Class 87 Hornby could produce a couple of 60th anniversary sets of the Tri-ang Lord of the Isles complete with a smoke unit and the Hornby Dublo Barnstaple with Pullman cars car 74, Aries and car 79.

 

Lord of the Isles and the clerestory coaches paved the way for some pre-nationalisation trains whereas Barnstaple and the Pullmans seemed like the last word when they appeared although Barnstaple received a bad review from the Model Railway Constructor.

TBH, despite my Southern allegiances, I was never very enamoured with the HD/Wrenn West Countries. The fact they never did any version representing a loco that ran with that type of tender always irked and I hadn't yet got into renaming back then.

 

Considering it was the last new steam loco produced by Binns Road, there was little evidence of significant technical advancement over what they released in 1938. Perhaps that's why it was the last?

 

I thought the cab-full of O Gauge motor was actually a big step backwards though, to be fair, it did run well by the standards of the time. 

 

Ambivalence ruled and three passed through my hands altogether, though only one at a time, and I flogged my last, a Wrenn Dorchester, as soon as the new Hornby rebuilts became available.  

 

Mind you, I never had one strip a gear.

 

John

Edited December 18, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, surfsup said:

Stop using those harsh bright white LEDs and switch to cool warm!

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

do suspect the demand for 1960-1990s Southern mk1 EMUs, and think its a vocal minority building on Southern interests rather than a rabid hobbyist group demanding units. I think 1st generation WCML ohle EMUs would have a more surprising demand, but the lobbyists aren't loud enough.

I think the popularity of Southern emus is down to two factors, firstly that such trains were a major part of the lives of millions of commuters in the Southeast for many years, which ensures their popularity as models, and secondly that the hobby is still in a period of backlash from the 60s and 70s, when a prevalance of GW branch lines resulted in concentration of production of RTR stock suitable for them during the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. I recall at the time magazing letters and articles bemoaning that the trade ignored Southern Electric, and there really wasn't much stuff out there; for many years the nearest approach was the old Triang suburban 2 car unit, hopelessly incorrect with 2 brake composites and a very generous compartment spacing, not to mention the B1 bogies, or the tinplate Hornby Dublo LMR set masquerading as a Southern because it lacked the bars on the droplight windows. 

 

Prior to the 90s and the introduction of EPBs, BILs, and electro-diesels, the Southern's third rail network was stuidously ignored by the RTR trade.  Not enough glamour, perhaps, and  little proven established demand; when the models appeared, they generated a plethora of layouts and have proven that there was certainly a market for this sort of thing.  'Modern', by which I propably mean post 90s, RTR is a far cry from the 60s when it was impossible to build a represenatative range of locos or stock for any period or region out of what was available from RTR, and there are still some periods and areas that are a bit thin on the ground, although fewer are completely ignored.  The Glasgow & South Western is perhpas the only main line pre-grouping 1922 company that doesn't get a look in, unless you count the Cambrian, Furness, Maryport and Carlisle Highland, and GNoS as main line players. 

 

The Scottish companies are not well represented still, but inroads have  been made.  Among English companies that survived to the grouping, the Hull and Barnsley is still missing as well as those mentioned above, and there is no non-GW Welsh RTR at all

1 hour ago, surfsup said:

 

 

 

[Gibbo675]

55 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The Scottish companies are not well represented still, but inroads have  been made.  Among English companies that survived to the grouping, the Hull and Barnsley is still missing as well as those mentioned above, and there is no non-GW Welsh RTR at all

 

 

Hi Johnster,

 

This is almost near enough for its day a version of a Hull and Barnsley van:

 

http://www.Hornby-railway-trains.co.uk/Rolling_Stock/Trucks_Wagons/R013_Closed_Van_Fine_Fish_E81010/R013_Closed_Van_Fine_Fish_E81010.htm

 

Gibbo.

[surfsup]

3 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

That's an easy fix IMHO and takes just a few mins to rectify. But I can see why it will bother some people.

 

It might be an easy fix, but it's the fact they use them on anything that has headlights - I would much rather see cool warm LEDs used on Hornby's models than the awful bright white. Anything from VEP, to the 87, to the 153s and HSTs all has it.  

[wombatofludham]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

I do suspect the demand for 1960-1990s Southern mk1 EMUs, and think its a vocal minority building on Southern interests rather than a rabid hobbyist group demanding units. I think 1st generation WCML ohle EMUs would have a more surprising demand, but the lobbyists aren't loud enough.

 

 

This particular lobbyist for WCML OHLE units is very gobby when the opportunity presents.

I think we're on the cusp of an announcement of something to accompany the Bachmann 85s and 90s, the Hornby 87 and the Heljan incoming 86fest, probably a 310/312.  I've just ordered a Britannia Pacific Class 312 at a hand-built price, so that's sure to see a 310-312 announced as already designed and in production and for delivery in Q3 2021, about the time I'll be taking delivery of my WMPTE Bruised Banana 312204.

I'm thinking of putting money on it and use the winnings to pay for my commissioned model.

[The Johnster]

Fair enough; I'd completely forgotten the Triang generic van, which does indeed look quite a lot like a HBR type!  Can't offhand think of an LTSR type either unless you include the BR standard 4MT tank.  The Midland and Great Northern Joint is left out in the cold as well unless you include the Ivatt 4MT mogul.

 

For some areas of the UK, for all periods from the early 20th century forward, one can fully stock layouts from RTR off the shelf items.  For heavily populated industrialised areas, South Wales in unique in that one is not able to do this for steam era layouts unless one restricts oneself to pre-grouping GW lines, which were less than half of the area's route mileage.  One might have issues with late 60s/early 70s diesel as well, as there are big gaps in essential dmus, particularly 116 , 119, and 120, and I would argue 123 as well.  None of these are easy conversion from the available RTR provision, either.  I once bashed a Lima 117 into a 116, which needed 5 vehicles for one 3-car set and even then I was unable to bash a set with a TC or the early 2-character headcode cab.  My set was a Bristol area allocated '4 marker light cab' all second class variant, not suitable for South Wales but I invoded Rule 1.  One could of course do the same with the Bachmann 117, but not on my budget you couldn't.  Proper South Wales green/early blue liveried 37s with buffer fairings and round buffers are thin on the ground as well when you discount the crude Triang Hornby with 31 bogies, not even the correct wheelbase.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

TBH, despite my Southern allegiances, I was never very enamoured with the HD/Wrenn West Countries. The fact they never did any version representing a loco that ran with that type of tender always irked and I hadn't yet got into renaming back then.

 

Considering it was the last new steam loco produced by Binns Road, there was little evidence of significant technical advancement over what they released in 1938. Perhaps that's why it was the last?

 

I thought the cab-full of O Gauge motor was actually a big step backwards though, to be fair, it did run well by the standards of the time. 

 

Ambivalence ruled and three passed through my hands altogether, though only one at a time, and I flogged my last, a Wrenn Dorchester, as soon as the new Hornby rebuilts became available.  

 

Mind you, I never had one strip a gear.

 

John

Yes, I remember Barnstaple and the HD pullmans coming out, and I never thought of them as the last word in anything.  I was already sniffy about cabs full of motors, which set me against most Hornby Dublo locos, and thought that tinplate sided coaches with printed exterior detail, despite the print quality, were really past their sell by then, and greatly inferior to Triang's scale length mk1s.  I was also starting to get sniffy about about flangeless driving wheels.  I was 10 years old, increasingly dissatisfied with the detail, scale, and (especially) running of the RTR of the day.  This was the start of a lifetime of dissatisfaction with RTR which has only subsdided in the last decade or so.and I'm still angling for upgrades of the likes of 2721s and Airfix auto trailers. 

 

And modern RTR, for all it's fidelity and detail, can still turn up items that run less than satisfactorily, recent attempts at 14xx and the Dapol mogul being examples.  I've read critical reports of Heljan D95xx and others from this company as well in this regard, and am dismissive of the high floors in the bubble cars and flying banana.

[magic_monkey09]

Plenty of HST options for Hornby this year with the blue Pullman and EMR buffer sets, red and blue sets.  
43185 Intercity HST twin pack with FGW blue power car and another run of dynamic lines Mk3’s for men 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by magic_monkey09

[thohurst]

3 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

This particular lobbyist for WCML OHLE units is very gobby when the opportunity presents.

I think we're on the cusp of an announcement of something to accompany the Bachmann 85s and 90s, the Hornby 87 and the Heljan incoming 86fest, probably a 310/312.  I've just ordered a Britannia Pacific Class 312 at a hand-built price, so that's sure to see a 310-312 announced as already designed and in production and for delivery in Q3 2021, about the time I'll be taking delivery of my WMPTE Bruised Banana 312204.

I'm thinking of putting money on it and use the winnings to pay for my commissioned model.

 

I agree in that I suspect some AC emu units are coming, though I doubt from Hornby. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bachmann or Heljan tackle a 303 or 304. Nor would I surprised to see either make a 310. 

I really can't express how much I want any manufacturer to make anything AC, there's just not enough of it in the market. 

 

On another note though, I wonder if Hornby would ever try a 5MT? Bachmann's model doesn't look to be that recent, and with Hornby already having the 4MT and now a 2MT in their range, perhaps a 5MT would fill a gap in their range?

[robmcg]

2 minutes ago, thohurst said:

....

 

On another note though, I wonder if Hornby would ever try a 5MT? Bachmann's model doesn't look to be that recent, and with Hornby already having the 4MT and now a 2MT in their range, perhaps a 5MT would fill a gap in their range?

 

Conventional wisdom would be that most 00 modellers who want a 5MT already have one or more of the Bachmann models which are in my opinion superb...  

 

but since when did Hornby do 'conventional wisdom'? 

 

There's probably room in the market. Only Hornby and Bachmann know if their 4MT 4-6-0s made money. 

[thohurst]

2 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

Conventional wisdom would be that most 00 modellers who want a 5MT already have one or more of the Bachmann models which are in my opinion superb...  

 

but since when did Hornby do 'conventional wisdom'? 

 

There's probably room in the market. Only Hornby and Bachmann know if their 4MT 4-6-0s made money. 

 

Unfortunately I don't have a 5MT of my own to look at, so I must be looking at the wrong images, though I did have one of their 4MT's, and that was a superb model. That being said, the standards have pretty much been covered across the manufacturers, so fingers crossed Hornby produces something new this time round. I'm rooting for a Claughton! 

[robmcg]

7 minutes ago, thohurst said:

 

Unfortunately I don't have a 5MT of my own to look at, so I must be looking at the wrong images, though I did have one of their 4MT's, and that was a superb model. That being said, the standards have pretty much been covered across the manufacturers, so fingers crossed Hornby produces something new this time round. I'm rooting for a Claughton! 

 

Oddly, when someone was discussing wishlists the only engine I thought of was a Claughton, preferably in LMS Crimson Lake rather like the Bachmann Midland 1P 0-4-4T in quality...

 

cheers

[dibber25]

7 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Turning the clock back a few years since the introduction of the Class 87 Hornby could produce a couple of 60th anniversary sets of the Tri-ang Lord of the Isles complete with a smoke unit and the Hornby Dublo Barnstaple with Pullman cars car 74, Aries and car 79.

 

Lord of the Isles and the clerestory coaches paved the way for some pre-nationalisation trains whereas Barnstaple and the Pullmans seemed like the last word when they appeared although Barnstaple received a bad review from the Model Railway Constructor.

The Model Railway Constructor review was written by a guy who knew a thing or two about Southern locomotives and stock. The review of the West Country was kind compared to his review of Tri-ang's CIWL car which was just a shorty Pullman in CIWL livery. (CJL)

[frobisher]

11 hours ago, InterCity80s said:

I would definitely be interested in an updated VEP. Simon Kohler mentioned it in one of the recent Q&A videos and said they'd be open to it if there seemed to be demand.

 

I think there's two major items they need to fix - the cab ends, and the placement of the motor bogie (who on earth thought that the open salon of the MBS was the best place to have it when the brake section of the VEP was legendarily huge?).  They can use the original position for the refurbed one if they want...

[dibber25]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, I remember Barnstaple and the HD pullmans coming out, and I never thought of them as the last word in anything.  I was already sniffy about cabs full of motors, which set me against most Hornby Dublo locos, and thought that tinplate sided coaches with printed exterior detail, despite the print quality, were really past their sell by then, and greatly inferior to Triang's scale length mk1s.  I was also starting to get sniffy about about flangeless driving wheels.  I was 10 years old, increasingly dissatisfied with the detail, scale, and (especially) running of the RTR of the day.  This was the start of a lifetime of dissatisfaction with RTR which has only subsdided in the last decade or so.and I'm still angling for upgrades of the likes of 2721s and Airfix auto trailers. 

 

And modern RTR, for all it's fidelity and detail, can still turn up items that run less than satisfactorily, recent attempts at 14xx and the Dapol mogul being examples.  I've read critical reports of Heljan D95xx and others from this company as well in this regard, and am dismissive of the high floors in the bubble cars and flying banana.

Yes, but ready-to-run exists for people who find it more satisfactory for them than building kits. In a lifetime of modelling I've built very few kit chassis that worked to my satisfaction but I've had endless hours of pleasure running ready-to-run and very few duds. (CJL)

[APOLLO]

All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth !!

 

And for 2021 is ------

 

A Locomotive that 

 

Is heavy and therefore will pull a decent train.

Has a good, close coupler (Yet to be invented)

Does not cost the earth

Is not loaded with silly electronickery 

Comes in a box I can get into, and more importantly get the said loco out of easily, AND put it back in.

Bits don't fall off when unboxing etc

Bits don't need putting on from little plastic bags sealed in such a way you break / lose the said bits when trying to open the tiny annoying plastic bag

Is lubricated with OIL and not grease that solidifies with time rendering the locomotive unable to operate.

Has a decent sized motor (large Pacifics etc)

 

Oh - An end to this Covid malarkey also.

 

Have a good Christmas folks !!!!

 

See you on the other side.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robin Brasher]

The March 1963 Model Railway Constructor dismissed the Tri-ang Wagon Lits Sleeper saying "To attempt to criticise a model which bears no resemblance to its alleged prototype would be somewhat pointless."  The adverse review did not prevent Tri-ang from selling 4,300 of these coaches.

 

Despite the shortcomings of Barnstaple's appearance it was a well engineered model which was more sophisticated than Tri-ang's Winston Churchill, which also came out in 1961. Barnstaple was quieter, would pull more coaches and had finer scale wheels.  Both models have stood the test of time and many are still running today.  My friend in the Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group ran a Tri-ang Winston Churchill on the club's exhibition layout until the flanges wore out.  At the end of the day running trains is what our hobby is about and both Barnstaple and Winston Churchill are the sort of locomotives that you want to run all day. 

 

I would be pleased to see a Barnstaple locomotive in the Hornby range now that its West Country locomotive has an equal performance and a similar haulage capacity. Perhaps someone could set an endurance test between the to models.