2021 hopes

[DutyDruid]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Prior the 1900 the WCML expresses were over 14 bogie coaches many of them 12 wheelers, likewise the ECML. The GW and LSWR were similar lengths.

 

The platforms on the Meon Valley Line (opened 1903) were 600' long.  The route was from Gosport to Waterloo and although built as a branch line was intended to become a secondary main line.

[choo1choo]

 

 

While on the pre-grouping theme how about a LBSCR D1 Tank. 125 of them were built and liveries can include Stroudley Improved Engine Green,Marsh Umber,various Southern greens and various BR blacks. Bearing in mind Rapido/Model Rail are manufacturing an E1 tank hopefully next year or 2022 Hornby might steal a march on them.

 

Put me down for both by the way in Stroudley livery.

 

Craig.

[surfsup]

16 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

Another idea -  we  need a OO Gauge class 60 in GBRF livery!! Also, there are those new white GBRF biomass hoppers  (NOT the ones being made by Accurascale) which could go nicely with it....

 

 

Yes and No! Yes - because I wouldn't mind one but at the same time, a no because... 

 

All I really really want from Hornby is a vastly improved Quality Control / Paint Finishes!  

 

The New GBRf 50 is a let down in this regard, where the Blue used is almost an FGW Blue than GBRf Blue. It's far to light & too bright and unfortunately let's the model down for me. Unfortunately this isn't the first model this year I've turned down because of Hornby's odd colour choices - the Caledonian Sleeper 87 is equally as odd. And don't get me started on the various iterations of the FGW models over the last few years either! I do have to wonder who actually checks these models before signing them off for production. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by surfsup

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

A1 or A4 for LNER

 

A P2 would be better IMO as a hifi version doesn't exist. I think all the A1-A4s are pretty much sorted now detail wise?

 

Could also tie in with Prince of Wales long term.

 

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Cater for people who want a new 8F while pandering to the collector diecast market 

 

I think a 9F would have a bigger market appeal IMO especially if it was Evening Star. I'd almost certainly order one despite not collecting steam, an 8F I'd not even give a second thought. I know I aren't everyone but I expect a lot of people will think that way.

[Legend]

17 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

A P2 would be better IMO as a hifi version doesn't exist. I think all the A1-A4s are pretty much sorted now detail wise?

 

Could also tie in with Prince of Wales long term.

 

 

I think a 9F would have a bigger market appeal IMO especially if it was Evening Star. I'd almost certainly order one despite not collecting steam, an 8F I'd not even give a second thought. I know I aren't everyone but I expect a lot of people will think that way.

 8F because it celebrates the Hornby Dublo model . But if the catalogue cover is correct it looks like the Evening Star might be getting a 50 year make over . 

[TomScrut]

53 minutes ago, Legend said:

 8F because it celebrates the Hornby Dublo model . But if the catalogue cover is correct it looks like the Evening Star might be getting a 50 year make over . 

 

Yes I suppose. I am just thinking they'd want something to sell out although if they are only doing say 500 of any given model I don't think they'd struggle with most stuff

[rovex]

Does Hornby make more money on these big locos than on the small ones?

 

I can't think of any other reason why they churn out all these Pacific's when most modellers have small layouts and can make more use of smaller tank and tender locos.

 

Well I can think of one other reason why they do it and it's the same reason that drives some men to buy sports cars 

- over compensating

Edited December 22, 2020 by rovex

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, rovex said:

Does Hornby make more money on these big locos than on the small ones?

 

I can't think of any other reason why they churn out all these Pacific's when most modellers have small layouts and can make more use of smaller tank and tender locos.

 

Well I can think of one other reason why they do it and it's the same reason that drives some men to buy sports cars

 

I'd expect it is because that's where the market is. I'd expect a lot of people when starting out will buy a big loco before a small one.

 

I'd expect 75% of the layouts out there to be circuits and therefore the size of the loco doesn't really matter. The size of the train it is pulling yes but a lot (especially newbies and kids) would rather have an A4 pulling 3 carriages than a Terrier pulling 4.

 

My stuff is present day and other than "preserved" stuff everything I have loco wise is 3000hp+ apart from some 37s. But that's what the landscape is today too.

Edited December 22, 2020 by TomScrut

[Verulam Central]

So for 2021  I would say a good bet would be on mk4 retool coaches and DVT  to go with the class 91`s,  some LMS coaches crimson and gold.  would love to see P2 with A4 Front, class 08 intercity swallow detail shunter would be nice.  I think HST detailed BR blue and grey is a likely choice but not for me.  Would like to see a virgin HST late 90`s not been done in a while.   Scot rail 153 would be a good choice or northern rail.  As for newly tool maybe a class 86 or class 142 or class 156 . Would like to see some modern emu`s  plenty of choice  to pick from.  For steam there liner v4  or liner raven A2  for me     

[mdvle]

43 minutes ago, rovex said:

Does Hornby make more money on these big locos than on the small ones?

 

Given the wider market (say 80%+) doesn't care about accuracy, yes they sell more of them.  Bigger, more impressive looking drives the person browsing what's available to make that impulse purchase.

 

Quote

I can't think of any other reason why they churn out all these Pacific's when most modellers have small layouts and can make more use of smaller tank and tender locos.

 

Your thinking that the hobby is dominated by people like here on RMweb where we (generally) are trying to go for somewhat accuracy.   This is false, the market is dominated by people just having fun and don't care about realism.

 

And then there is the large number of people with no layouts at all, who buy either as a collector/to display on a shelf/or for that eventual dream layout that frequently never happens.

Edited December 22, 2020 by mdvle

[Chris56057]

Less modern era stuff and more privitisation models would be welcomed. There are still plenty of liveries for the 60 and 56 in particular that haven't been released yet!

[Hilux5972]

11 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

A P2 would be better IMO as a hifi version doesn't exist. I think all the A1-A4s are pretty much sorted now detail wise?

Yes but I was meaning if they decided to continue with the die cast theme like Duchess of Athol. 

[TomScrut]

59 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Yes but I was meaning if they decided to continue with the die cast theme like Duchess of Athol. 

 

Yes I know. I meant if they are going to the trouble of doing something in metal with high detail it may as well be something that's not already in high detail that would still be a flagship and sell well.

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I know. I meant if they are going to the trouble of doing something in metal with high detail it may as well be something that's not already in high detail that would still be a flagship and sell well.

 

But from Hornby's perspective, they know there is an existing collectors market for the A1-A4 steam locos that would quite happily buy in large quantities a new high detail metal model, to sit alongside their existing plastic versions.

 

Just because we might prefer something not done before doesn't mean that is what is best from a revenue perspective for Hornby.

[tomparryharry]

Dear Hornby,

Some pages ago, I asked for some Felix Pole 20 ton mineral wagons.  I do hope that wish bears fruit. 

 

But, Can you make a similar model, please? 

 

Can we have a really accurate 16 ton mineral, non-vacuum fitted version. Or, if you wish, a vacuum version as well. It'll have a slot in the headstock, so it can be fitted with 3-link couplings, and the model itself can be un-numbered, so modellers can buy as many wagons as they wish, and make up a very accurate train. 

 

Once again, if you want to make a collectors version, then a small set of transfers included in the box might prove a nice sales opportunity. 

 

The opposing view is "that'll never sell" but the market changes, and I for one, will buy lots of them. Not all at once, but a couple every month, just like the hundreds of 'average modellers' that populate these pages.  If it's accurate, and a good fidelity model, then everyone knows it'll sell.

 

Happy Christmas!

Ian. 

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

22 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Where do the Lima ones win out over the Hornby scale-length ones? Is it just that Lima did the TGS to allow a matching rake? One of my concerns with mixing Lima and Hornby in a rake is that roof ribs might look different (if I recall correctly Oxford's are rather under nourished) and gangway connection floors/rooves may ride at different heights (although flushglazing is something I probably would notice more if I were to mix them). If you are concerned with correct interiors, I think my Lima TSOs both shipped with 2+1 (FO) interiors, so they aren't correct for any TSO are they?

For me the Lima roof slightly edges the Hornby, and the lack of "enforced" Central Door Locking on the Lima ones (simply add Railtec 3D orange "lights" if modelling post 1994) edges it for them if you are doing a pre 1994 train. 

 

And regarding interiors, Lima only ever did three, the buffet one which is pretty spot on for the three window TRFB, a TF one which is good for the first class vehicles but terrible in the standard class coaches (it was used in both), and the TGS which is right for the blue/grey one only. The TGS isn't so much of a show-stopper as it at least has 2+2 seating but until this year it was a long standing deficiency in the Lima one that it has that silly 2+1 interior in the TS vehicles which was presumably just done to save the cost of doing another interior. Fast forward to Hornby scale length and their earlier releases of TS/TSO vehicles did have 2+2 seated interiors correct for blue/grey but not beyond when BR introduced the higher density, more airline 76 seat layout (common across HST TS and loco-hauled TSO), and Oxford Rail then did exactly the same. Then this year the INTERCITY swallow livery Mk3's were released by Hornby, all with 2+1 first class interiors so it was in the flying Delorean and back in time to the 1980's in that regard. To fix two TGS's at a time I cut one of the new replacement units in half, the guards end of the Lima/Limby TGS stayed fine post blue/grey (the shorter coach section prevented increasing the density) so that can be cut in half and retained.

 

And regarding the Limby re-worked four window buffet- yes, its a hacked about Lima one with the following deficiencies; 1) if you take the roof off you may find the body is bowed as the roof was strengthened to hold the body straight and 2) the "fourth" bay window (actually the one nearest the kitchen both sides) is slightly bigger than the rest, Lazerglaze do a separate pack for this and 3) the roof is a horlicks most similar to loco-hauled RFM, so if using it for a HST it's so far wrong you are better off finding a beaten up coach with an OK roof on eBay and using that as the starting point and adding the vents.

 

 

[The Johnster]

19 hours ago, rovex said:

Does Hornby make more money on these big locos than on the small ones?

 

I can't think of any other reason why they churn out all these Pacific's when most modellers have small layouts and can make more use of smaller tank and tender locos.

 

Well I can think of one other reason why they do it and it's the same reason that drives some men to buy sports cars 

- over compensating

My first train set was a Triang (I'm not quite old enough for pure Rovex) Black Princess and even at the age of 4 I was aware of it's literal shortcomings and the unrealistic curves.  Next xmas brought a 748 Saddle tank and some goods vehicles (cattle van, dropside steel medium, and toad), some extra track and two turnouts, and this was probably the single most influential moment in my modelling history.  748 looked much more at home than Princess Elizabeth on the curves, and I discovered shunting.  Future layouts build by dad during my childhood all featured an outer circuit that a passenger train could be left to it's own devices on, an inner circuit with sidings off it, and a trailing crossover. 

 

I still favour smaller locos and went for end to end layouts with lots of shunting as soon as I realised they were a thing, when I was about 12 or 13 and started taking MRC (CJL, you have a lot to answer for, but thanks!).  I suppose that, for a first train set, the big fast glamour stuff is what people who are not necessarily enthusiasts recognize but, really, who wants FS and 2 coaches/a 3 car Eurostar, or whatevs, going back to HD 3-rail Duchesses and A4s, when all they do is go round and round.  Then you can take them off the track and make them go round and round the other way. Then you can do it slowly, with one coach, pushing one coach and pulling another, or light engine, and you have now exhuasted your play value; the thing gets put in it's box, stowed in the attic, and 60 years later you approach me in the pub because you know I'm into this stuff and ask me how much it'll go for on the 'Bay, to be a bit irritated when I tell you that you can't give away Duchess of Montose tinplate 3 rail; 'but there was one on 'Going For A Song' that went for thousands the other day, and I'd never even heard of it, Bassett Loco or something...'.

 

Play value turns into serious prototypical operating and is best achieved with a small loco, few wagons but at least one open, and at least one preferably two sidings.  A bit of imagination (and kids are good at that) about loads and your train can be carrying anything from anywhere to anywhere for any reason.  This will probably be steam based and there may well be some of those awful Hornby 4-wheel coaches, but current image can wait until the kid is a bit older, has developed a prototypical interest, and can make informed decisions; even  then, Eurostars will not be the best use of space in most cases.

 

But nothing I have said or written on this point in the last 60 years will prevent parents with the best intentions buying Hornby train sets for  their anklebiters at xmas and going for FS, Eurostar, etc, when Smokey Joe is a better bet.  To be fair to Hornby, they are trying to use the Covid situation to market 'family fun project' stuff which addresses this and is far more likely to lead to serious modelling, and will be proper family fun even if it doesn't, but they would be idiots not to pander to the xmas market for train sets with big fast glamour stock.

 

I have never felt the need to overcompensate by buying a sports car. 

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

Just because we might prefer something not done before doesn't mean that is what is best from a revenue perspective for Hornby.

 

And you're suggesting that a P2 wouldn't be a popular model? Especially given they are building a new one?

 

I am more thinking that somebody with a £100 OK P2 is more likely to want to spend £250+ on a mega new one than somebody with £160 already brilliant A1/3/4s.

 

TBH whatever they do will probably sell well I just thought a P2 was maybe going to plug a market gap more than yet another A4 (for example) where there are already 4 in the market I think.

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I have never felt the need to overcompensate by buying a sports car. 

 

TBH I don't see why people seem to think that people in sports cars are overcompensating anyway (and what for) but that's a bit OT.

 

I am at the point now where actually I am having more fun with my trains than I ever have by having the driving aspects automated and me telling them where to go. I don't mean just leave them going round and round but more if you have enough stuff running at the same time it takes a bit of thinking to stop things blocking up.

[The Johnster]

Well, of course, there are people with sports cars who are sports car enthusiasts and I'm not accusing them of overcompensating, but stating that I have never felt the need to overcompensate with a sports car, probably because I'm not really interested in sports cars.  Were I to want to overcompensate in that way for a mid-life crisis, i'd do it with young women of the sort not impressed by sports cars.  I was interested in those during my own mid life crisis (of course, this interest was somewhat one sided, and who can blame them), but I've grown up* a bit now...

 

I take you point that operation is just as interesting if you have to plan it's automation, but it still rather illustrates my contention that a Eurostar whizzing around a circuit does not have much more than about 10 minutes play value/operational interest.

 

 

*not to the extent that I regard myself as a grownup, mind...

[mdvle]

47 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

And you're suggesting that a P2 wouldn't be a popular model? Especially given they are building a new one?

 

Not suggesting that at all - though from a timing perspective closer to the new one actually running might be better, particularly if you want to tool the variations between the original prototypes and the modern one.

 

Quote

I am more thinking that somebody with a £100 OK P2 is more likely to want to spend £250+ on a mega new one than somebody with £160 already brilliant A1/3/4s.

 

One of the false assumptions frequently made is that the only market for a new model is people upgrading from an existing model.

 

While this certainly happens, particularly if the new model is a significant upgrade in terms of detail/accuracy/performance, it isn't the only or even main source of sales.

 

There are always new people entering the hobby, or people in the hobby changing focus/interest.

 

Or maybe the new model offers the livery/number combination that is wanted.

 

And then there are the collectors, which for some models can exceed those who actually run the model on a layout.

 

Regardless of ones feelings, the stature of the A1/3/4s is such that there is a significant collectors market - a market that would quite happily buy "yet another A1/3/4" just because it is now made out of metal instead of plastic.

 

Quote

TBH whatever they do will probably sell well I just thought a P2 was maybe going to plug a market gap more than yet another A4 (for example) where there are already 4 in the market I think.

 

But that is thinking as a modeller, and looking at where the market needs a new/better model.  Which is natural (for example, while many disagree I think a new Class 50 is needed because in my opinion the existing Hornby model has flaws that make it impossible for me to buy).

 

But as a manufacturer, who is putting $100,000+ on the line, the almost guaranteed sales/profit on a new A1/3/4 would be very tempting.

 

Not that I am saying either approach is the only way (or even the right way - manufacturers do at times guess at the potential market wrong - if they are lucky a model is more popular so they make more money, if unlucky the model fails to sell enough and they lose money -  just that there is more in the decision making process than merely deciding the market is missing X.

Edited December 23, 2020 by mdvle

[G-BOAF]

I'm biased as I have all my required preserved A4s and spares.... BUT I really don't see major improvements in a retooled A4. The rebuilt W1 does not seem to be any finer than the A4, except in some minor aspects like the bogie (with has provision for a front coupling). This a) shows how good the current A4 is (although the tooling needs some repairs in the Cab roof area) and b) that even a new tooled model that is very similar is not actually better.

 

I reckon (hope) we will see some more terriers.

Mk4/DVT seems obvious.

at Rocket may appear on its own without coaches

8F or Black 5 retool (very much needed imho)

The BR Clan may reappear (either existing tooling or retool from original CADs)

Southern Q Class (fitting nicely with Hornby's existing Souther range)

Possibly a Manor.... (there isn't much else, and Dapol don't seem that far along!)

Protoype HST (assuming it would just be a body retool on the existing chassis?)

[Willie Whizz]

When I came to have my own mid-life crisis a few years back, it seemed clear the choice would have to be either a fast car or a fast woman.  I decided the car would probably be less expensive in the long run ...

[The Johnster]

Less dangerous, as well. 

 

My theory is that if you are old enough and have sufficient no-claims to be able to afford to insure a fast car, there's not much point...

[Dunsignalling]

59 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

And you're suggesting that a P2 wouldn't be a popular model? Especially given they are building a new one?

 

I am more thinking that somebody with a £100 OK P2 is more likely to want to spend £250+ on a mega new one than somebody with £160 already brilliant A1/3/4s.

 

TBH whatever they do will probably sell well I just thought a P2 was maybe going to plug a market gap more than yet another A4 (for example) where there are already 4 in the market I think.

If Hornby want to make the most of a wedge-front P2, I'd suggest they're best off leaving it until the new full-size one is out-and-about to generate a load of demand from thousands of potential buyers who probably haven't a clue what one is at present.

 

My guess is that's exactly what they are doing....

 

John