A Surface Mounted Point Motor With Built-in Frog Polarity Switch?

[OFFTHE RAILS]

A surface mounted point motor with a built-in frog polarity switch? Does anybody make one suitable for 4mm or 2mm applications?  

The closest I had found was the Hoffmann / Conrad type (apparently now discontinued) which has a switch but needs a bit of fiddling (omega loop or similar)  to use as a surface motor.  

[My latest N gauge project baseboard is a lightweight door with point motors to be mounted in the hidden fiddle yard, operating visible area points by tube and wire. All wiring to be accessible or hidden on the board surface - no groping underneath (!..) ]

Ian

 

[Oldddudders]

Tortoise motors can be surface mounted - i.e. upside down - and have very useful changeover switches built in. 

[Butler Henderson]

The normally underboard Colbalts (also with built in switches)  too can be surface mounted using this adaptor

link

[Andymsa]

2 hours ago, OFFTHE RAILS said:

A surface mounted point motor with a built-in frog polarity switch? Does anybody make one suitable for 4mm or 2mm applications?  

The closest I had found was the Hoffmann / Conrad type (apparently now discontinued) which has a switch but needs a bit of fiddling (omega loop or similar)  to use as a surface motor.  

[My latest N gauge project baseboard is a lightweight door with point motors to be mounted in the hidden fiddle yard, operating visible area points by tube and wire. All wiring to be accessible or hidden on the board surface - no groping underneath (!..) ]

Ian

 

look at the pictures in my layout topic llamberg, this shows how I surface mount a tortoise

[melmerby]

What about one of these:

https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html

 

Full range:

https://www.mtb-model.com/pages/prestavniky.php?lang=en

Edited December 13, 2020 by melmerby

[MalcT]

Have you looked at the DCC Concepts SS Surface mounted point motors ? - their control board has built in frog polarity.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/160481-a-surface-mounted-point-motor-with-built-in-frog-polarity-switch/&tab=comments#comment-4230532

 

Malc

[ejstubbs]

AIUI the Conrad point motor is the solenoid type.  It's listed on their web site as being available to ship from Tuesday this week: https://www.conrad.com/p/2201977-universal-point-motor-16-v-ac-2201977.

 

Any solenoid point motor, including surface mounted ones such as the Peco PL11, can have frog polarity switching added using a  latching relay wired in parallel with the point motor.  The Gaugemaster GM500 is designed for precisely this job.  Similar products from other suppliers are available.

[Roy Langridge]

9 hours ago, MalcT said:

Have you looked at the DCC Concepts SS Surface mounted point motors ? - their control board has built in frog polarity.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/160481-a-surface-mounted-point-motor-with-built-in-frog-polarity-switch/&tab=comments#comment-4230532

 

Malc

 

I have used them but found them to be very specific about the way in which they were set up - anything other than absolutely dead straight / flat and they would jam. I believe even temperature changes had an effect. I could start a running session and in half an hour I was guaranteed one would jam. Remove the link arm, motor would move fine, point blades move with no resistance whatsoever - put it all back together, recalibrate it and half and hour later it, or one of its friends, would jam.

 

I now use miniature servos with a MegaPoints Controller with either miniature microswitches or their relay board to do the frog switching. One layout I have it all mounted below board with piano wire in a tube and on another I have the servos surface mounted.

 

Here is quick a snap of one on my shunting plank (which was using DCC Concepts SS Surface mounted point motors) linked to an OO Peco bullhead point. It is yet to have some scenery built to hide it:

 

 

MegaPoints Controllers are an awesome bit of kit, they can even simulate the bounce of a semaphore signal.

 

Edit: Just to add, I believe they work out very cost effective, particularly where you have many point motors and use the 12 channel controller. I worked out on my 009 layout that the total cost for twelve points was around £105 excluding wire. That was for the controller board, servo mount, microswitch, piano wire and PTFE tube. £8.75 a point.

 

Roy (No connection other than as a very happy customer)

Edited December 14, 2020 by Roy Langridge

[OFFTHE RAILS]

Many thanks for all of your replies and your suggestions. My google search tuning is obviously poor!

The MTB MP1 and it's adjustable throw distance looks good - I'd like to  try those but they're not available/out of stock!  I hadn't heard of the DCC Concepts SS Surface mounted motor either, nice,  but they're £60 a pair so I'll pass on those. I'm glad to see the Conrads are still available and around £10 each so that's a fall back option.

Thanks again,

Ian

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, OFFTHE RAILS said:

Many thanks for all of your replies and your suggestions. My google search tuning is obviously poor!

The MTB MP1 and it's adjustable throw distance looks good - I'd like to  try those but they're not available/out of stock!  I hadn't heard of the DCC Concepts SS Surface mounted motor either, nice,  but they're £60 a pair so I'll pass on those. I'm glad to see the Conrads are still available and around £10 each so that's a fall back option.

Thanks again,

Ian

I bought a couple a few months back after seen another RMWeb topic that discussed them

They are versatile with various adjustments for throw and position.

They are slightly noisier than a Tortoise

 

Mine are mounted under a baseboard but on a lifting section where I have a crossover so are mostly recessed into the 22mm thick  wood I used.

I needed them to be as unobstructive as possible when the section is hinged up and they do the job.

[OFFTHE RAILS]

13 hours ago, melmerby said:

What about one of these:

https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html

 

Full range:

https://www.mtb-model.com/pages/prestavniky.php?lang=enht

Thanks Keith, even though their site suggested they're out of stock, I emailed them and they've found one for me -  it's on it's way.

Ian

[TomJ]

Are you DCC or D.C.?

 

if DCC you could use Peco surface motors and a frog juicer or auto frog 

 

If DC ignore me! Or perhaps use a gaugemaster relay switch?

[Sol]

Or one of these in conjunction with solenoids

http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/point_indicator.html#POINT-INDICATOR-RELAY

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Sol said:

Or one of these in conjunction with solenoids

http://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/point_indicator.html#POINT-INDICATOR-RELAY

Blimey

What a load of complexity just for one motor with a built in frog switch.