Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Stefan88]

2 things of interest to note lately:

 

1. My latest Roco spare parts order was delivered by Fedex, previously it was posted with Deutsche Post and delivered by Royal Mail. Total including postage was below the equivalent of £135 so can't comment on the recent possible trend of postage being included in this amount. It took 2 and a half weeks from placing the order to parts arriving - just under 2 weeks from order to parts being posted. I can only assume the spare parts are being warehoused in Slovakia (they seem to have their European distribution centre there) or Romania (last remaining European production facilities) and sent to Germany before then being posted to the customer, hence the relatively long turn-around time.
2. Modellbahn Union seem to have hiked their postage rates to the UK at some point recently - it used to be around 9 Euros for the UPS option, now there is only a DHL option for around 21 Euros. Still not hugely expensive but far from the cheapest now.

[Porfuera]

On 29/03/2024 at 20:22, Stefan88 said:

2 things of interest to note lately:

 

1. My latest Roco spare parts order was delivered by Fedex, previously it was posted with Deutsche Post and delivered by Royal Mail. Total including postage was below the equivalent of £135 so can't comment on the recent possible trend of postage being included in this amount. It took 2 and a half weeks from placing the order to parts arriving - just under 2 weeks from order to parts being posted. I can only assume the spare parts are being warehoused in Slovakia (they seem to have their European distribution centre there) or Romania (last remaining European production facilities) and sent to Germany before then being posted to the customer, hence the relatively long turn-around time.
2. Modellbahn Union seem to have hiked their postage rates to the UK at some point recently - it used to be around 9 Euros for the UPS option, now there is only a DHL option for around 21 Euros. Still not hugely expensive but far from the cheapest now.

 

I can give an update on the postage situation with regard to the £135 limit.

 

My latest package from Modellbahnshop-Lippe was ordered on the 10th March and arrived on 20th (there was a delay of a couple of days in that time because they notified me that the wagon I'd ordered had become unavailable and I had to let them know of a like-for-like replacement).

 

The order cost was €153,59 after German VAT was deducted (so approx £131) and the postage was an additional €9,90, giving a total spend of €163,49 (so approx £139 to £140) - to date I have not had a request/demand for UK VAT to be paid - fingers firmly crossed!

 

Modellbahnshop-Lippe use FedEx end-to-end and from what I remember reading here previously it seems that if the Post Office/Royal Mail are involved at the UK end then the postage is included in the £135 whereas FedEx don't currently seem to do that.

 

Edited March 31 by Porfuera

[Stefan88]

A surprising expected delivery date for an ebay order from Italy being sent with UPS - Monday 8th April, posted yesterday (3rd April). The reason for my surprise is that the last 2 orders from Italy (a couple of years ago, both with UPS) took over 3 weeks! Previously they sat around in UPS's Carpi facility for over 2 weeks before being sent on to the UK, so if it really does arrive on Monday (or even at any point next week) that will be a welcome development. Cost was a little under €19, by far the cheapest way of getting a parcel out of Italy.

[Stefan88]

Parcel from Italy has been delivered today, 5 days including a weekend, had it been posted a day earlier it would have arrived on Friday (sat in delivery office from just after midnight Friday night).

[Andymsa]

On 31/03/2024 at 12:25, Porfuera said:

 

I can give an update on the postage situation with regard to the £135 limit.

 

My latest package from Modellbahnshop-Lippe was ordered on the 10th March and arrived on 20th (there was a delay of a couple of days in that time because they notified me that the wagon I'd ordered had become unavailable and I had to let them know of a like-for-like replacement).

 

The order cost was €153,59 after German VAT was deducted (so approx £131) and the postage was an additional €9,90, giving a total spend of €163,49 (so approx £139 to £140) - to date I have not had a request/demand for UK VAT to be paid - fingers firmly crossed!

 

Modellbahnshop-Lippe use FedEx end-to-end and from what I remember reading here previously it seems that if the Post Office/Royal Mail are involved at the UK end then the postage is included in the £135 whereas FedEx don't currently seem to do that.

 

when my lippie items came was sent by fed ex. The vat demand came about a week after items was delivered. It seems fed ex pay it on your behalf and then claim it back from you latter. This way the item is not delayed like with Royal Mail 

[GrumpyPenguin]

15 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

when my lippie items came was sent by fed ex. The vat demand came about a week after items was delivered. It seems fed ex pay it on your behalf and then claim it back from you latter. This way the item is not delayed like with Royal Mail 

As a matter of interest whould you mind quiting what the item was & the total cost to get it to your door please ?

Edited April 28 by GrumpyPenguin

[Andymsa]

27 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

As a matter of interest whould you mind quiting what the item was & the total cost to get it to your door please ?

It was for a brawa twindex and twindexx vario emu. Cost of shipping and packing 12.90 euros

 

previous order was viessmann tamp machine same shipping 12.90 euros 

Edited April 28 by Andymsa

[Porfuera]

24 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

It was for a brawa twindex and twindexx vario emu. Cost of shipping and packing 12.90 euros

 

previous order was viessmann tamp machine same shipping 12.90 euros 

 

If I'm looking at the correct items then those orders would appear to be well over the £135 limit and consequently UK VAT would have been charged.

 

My three orders so far from Modellbahnshop-Lippe have been under £135 (after German VAT has been deducted and excluding postage) and I haven't been charged UK VAT to date.

 

Edited April 28 by Porfuera

[Andymsa]

33 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

If I'm looking at the correct items then those orders would appear to be well over the £135 limit and consequently UK VAT would have been charged.

 

My three orders so far from Modellbahnshop-Lippe have been under £135 (after German VAT has been deducted and excluding postage) and I haven't been charged UK VAT to date.

 

yes vat was paid, even so the tamper was significantly cheaper than I could get it for in the U.K. the importer mark up was taking the pxxxx

[GrumpyPenguin]

4 hours ago, Andymsa said:

It was for a brawa twindex and twindexx vario emu. Cost of shipping and packing 12.90 euros

 

previous order was viessmann tamp machine same shipping 12.90 euros 

Not quite answered my question so I'll split it into 5 & add it up myself ;

Item number.

Cost of the item.

Shipping we know. 12.9o euros.

VAT added.

Any handling charges from anyone ?

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Not quite answered my question so I'll split it into 5 & add it up myself ;

Item number.

Cost of the item.

Shipping we know. 12.9o euros.

VAT added.

Any handling charges from anyone ?

This is the item and order details from lilppe

 

 

Here is the fed ex invoice and how they calculate 

 

 

[Andymsa]

Hopefully this should answer your questions. Obviously I redacted any address or shipping numbers

[GrumpyPenguin]

12 hours ago, Andymsa said:

Hopefully this should answer your questions. Obviously I redacted any address or shipping numbers

Thanks - I'll look at the figures later for comparison.

[GrumpyPenguin]

On 29/04/2024 at 10:28, GrumpyPenguin said:

Thanks - I'll look at the figures later for comparison.

Having looked at the quoted figures it seems to me that it's around a 10% saving to what a UK dealer could achieve (with some bargaining of course).

[Hal Nail]

On 28/04/2024 at 16:48, Porfuera said:

I haven't been charged UK VAT to date.

 

Similarly I've always kept below 135 so had nothing added.

 

I noticed the recent hike and fearing they've finally discovered brexit, and possibly our VAT laws, queried it and received this reply:

 

"unfortunately, yes. The short answer is Brexit. The slightly longer answer is that due to a increase in prices due to the new customs regulations and shipping conditions, our prices had to be increased too. In essence the UK is, from a pure customs perstecive (sic), no longer within the limits of continental Europa. And that's why we had to adjust our prices to the current standards."

 

Presumably customs sort any duties, so nothing should change in that regard and if they haven't charged VAT when you order, its their lookout anyway as its the vendors responsibility to pay it over, not the buyer?

 

ie apart from more postage, shouldn't be any different?

Edited May 7 by Hal Nail

[Stefan88]

Placed my first ever order with MSL and not overly impressed so far - it has taken a full week for my order of 3 in-stock items to be posted, granted there was a single bank holiday in there but it seems a little slow for such a large well-reviewed outfit, especially considering my recent ebay order from Italy that was bought, sent and delivered in the same timeframe.

Also just had the contents of my storage box at the German freight forwarder MyGermany combined and shipped after 2 months of ebay shopping. This is the first time I've really gone for it since the brexit rules came in to force having up to now just combined a handful of orders (before the rules change I'd usually combine 10-20 orders), this time consisting of 13 orders for a total weight of 8.3kg, costing €28 to ship with Fedex. DHL shipping would have been €35. Mostly things bought in Germany, but also a loco from a French seller and another loco from a Spanish trader. Was somewhat concerned this morning after they flagged my last order to arrive as 'dangerous goods' because it had a small pack of aluminium capacitors that they had classed as lithium batteries, but this seems to have been sorted out at their end after I emailed them telling them they are not batteries, have no lithium in them and are not restricted/dangerous goods. Hopefully it'll get out of the doors today before 2 days of bank holidays in Germany starting tomorrow, but realistically it'll probably be picked up on Monday.

[D9020 Nimbus]

MSL have never been especially fast — certainly slower than the large British retailers like Rails and KMRC. But items are well packed and the prices are competitive. 

[Stefan88]

Found it unusual as my experience with most other German traders has been that they send by the next working day at the latest if everything is in stock, often same day if the order is in by around 1-2pm UK time. Not fussed as none of it is urgent, only ordered as they notified me that the YaMoRC YD9401 upgrade module for a Digikeijs DR5000 was in stock and reserved for me for 3 days so I snapped it up as these sell out immediately. Chucked in a 21 pin Loksound 5 and a heavily reduced Liliput wagon to bring me just under the magic £135 (€153).

 

On another note in case its not commonly known in the UK - Roco are changing over their IT system so direct ordering is down until likely mid-June, and by the sounds of it ordering through traders for anything not in stock with the trader might also be difficult if not impossible (including spare parts).

And on the subject of spares - ordering spares from Piko seems to be taking an eternity - I've ordered some as part of a wider order with a different German trader and the parts (showing as in stock on the Piko website) have been on order with them for over a month now. Same goes for some parts from PMT, but as they're a small series manufacturer that one is a bit more understandable. Not had any issues getting parts from either of them in the past, all be it directly from Piko and through a different trader for PMT, both several years ago now.

[Bigskybirds]

I have placed a couple of hundred orders with MSL in the last 5 years and never had a single issue. I usually get my order delivered within 7 days but I have requested they check items before despatch which is probably why I have had no issues. I have the option of choosing FedEx or DHL, I opt for Fedex if vat is charged because the item is not delayed and I receive an email requesting payment for vat after a couple of days. I am charged €9.90 delivery whether I choose Fedex or DHL. I cannot fault MSL they are 1st class.

[duff man]

I too have nothing but praise for MSL, probably had upwards of 20 orders delivered without any issues both pre and post Brexit. I also like there loyalty scheme, delivery is usually around 7 working days.

[Bigskybirds]

They also have an excellent communication system, give a ticket number and someone always gets back to me in a helpful and friendly manner. As well as the loyalty scheme they also occasionally drop coupons in my order boxes with 5% off next purchase.

[Stefan88]

Took a full 2 weeks to get my order from MSL, delivered on Tuesday after FedEx decided they couldn't deliver on Monday even though the parcel had been in the UK since the early hours of Saturday morning. 

 

The shipment from my German storage unit was picked up on Monday and delivered today without any fuss by FedEx.

[Stefan88]

9 days after delivery of my MSL order I now receive a text from Fedex asking me to pay charges! Order total was €152 plus €9.90 postage, so I can only assume Fedex are now including the postage amount as part of the £135 limit! Not impressed!

Edited May 23 by Stefan88

[jjb1970]

The postage charge was always subject to VAT I think.

[Stefan88]

It may have been, but it is only recently that it is being included, with Fedex still not including it very recently so this must have been a very sudden change to their practises, with no warning. Had I known I'd have reduced the order amount.

Just checked the postage label and it states "TtlVal: 152.82" (Total Value: €152.82) - so not included the postage amount there...

I will await the invoice in the post and see what detail that provides, but I don't expect any outcome other than having the pay the £36 charge as Fedex seem to have no way of speaking to a human.

Edited May 23 by Stefan88