Buying and Selling models to/from Europe

[Andy Hayter]

@Jack Benson

You say you don't see the VAT charges from Ebay which seems strange to me since from Ebay.fr they are clearly shown.

 

So this item

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225483466461?hash=item347fdca6dd:g:S0IAAOSwlBJkEzFy&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsGyiXEvzjfI%2B4WmBexm7E%2FTv4oZ%2FB4dxGy6XrIDrvJ64aQYbss6%2BVLSY89rxPQ8d21geqfBAhSF%2FDjN5c%2FQxnyAlB4UoXrM%2BzzZeoylEeOsIZYT%2B02Codhw7h8ZZyV1PmrP%2FkEcsY3AmhVWWCvj5z%2ByX0OA3Pcws8CXolwbCApQBa8lADz446HYCvh4FxMXHhZ%2FzyYvXXEIaS%2FA0ZFtUFyrY94jzli7QUQBY%2BO7cHI5q|tkp%3ABk9SR7yu5J7hYQ

 

Current bid £7.19

Postage £14.95 via GSP

Import charges est £6.09 = VAT and it will go up as the value of the bids rises.

[DenysW]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

If the value of the order is under £135 pounds then online market places (like e-bay) have been made to collect said VAT (largely to reduce the burden on HMRC and low value parcels from the likes of China slipping through. As it is mandatory for them to collect VAT then there is little point in identifying it as a separate charge.

Not sure about multi-national on-line retailers like eBay.

 

With local (German) retailers my experience was as I've described above: under £135 shipped UK VAT-free, all cost of shipping charged on check-out, shipping agent ignores VAT. Over £135, cost of shipping charged on check-out, shipping agent charges UK VAT plus a handling cost (and probably UK VAT on the handling cost) on/after delivering the goods.

 

In practice the use of cheaper local German retailers (usually 10%, but sometimes higher, then subtract German VAT of 20%) is overcome by the higher shipping costs until you get well over the £135 VAT trigger, and you pay it, just later. Add in the VAT-handling charge, and the break-even is around £250 of merchandise. So I go EU when the UK suppliers don't have German-outline stock, and try to accumulate a larger order.

[phil-b259]

35 minutes ago, DenysW said:

Not sure about multi-national on-line retailers like eBay.

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-overseas-businesses-using-an-online-marketplace-to-sell-goods-in-the-uk

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-and-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-in-the-uk-using-online-marketplaces#online-marketplace

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-imports-acquisitions-and-purchases-from-abroad

 

And with particular relevance to ebay...

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-online-marketplace-seller-checks

Edited March 22, 2023 by phil-b259

[DenysW]

From the VAT and Overseas Goods link:

 

If the seller makes changes to the value of the consignment so that its total value goes above £135 they may be liable for import VAT and Customs Duty,

 

This seems to be wording behind the shipping agents starting to charge UK VAT on shipments over £135, although it is sloppily worded as 'they' is the only plural usage in the sentence. It may mean the 'goods' from the previous paragraph, but it's still sloppy.

[Guest Jack Benson]

That is odd,  I purchased a set of wheels via eBay, from a German retailer who removed the mwst, they arrived within 48hrs without attracting further attention from the UK customs.
 

Inconsistency is the issue.

 

Thank you. 

[irishmail]

Latest update on my recent Hattons order, this is an email that I have had from them today. It seems that the IOSS system had changed!! This is the first parcel that they had already resent, the other is still floating around in the system somewhere!!

 

"Dear John,

 

I'm e-mailing in regards to order reference XXXXXXX, where I'm sorry to inform you that your parcel has been returned due to an issue with our IOSS number.

Unfortunately, we are currently in the small interim period where the old IOSS service has ended and we're awaiting the new IOSS service to take over, where this is required for orders sent with DPD and Royal Mail.

We do apologise for the delay in you receiving your items and for any inconvenience you may have been caused. We are working hard to get this resolved as soon as possible, and as soon as I have a further update, I send you a separate e-mail to keep you informed."

Edited March 27, 2023 by irishmail
spelling

[rekoboy]

My latest adventure has nothing to do with European model shops but with a Japanese one, Plaza Japan, where I am a fairly regular mail-order customer. I ordered two items last Tuesday, total cost around £40, paid the eye-watering £22 for delivery by DHL - and the package arrived with no extra fees following copious SMS updates on Sunday afternoon! Just five days' transit. Top service! Note the size of the shipping box compared to the larger(!) of my two purchases!

[Enterprisingwestern]

22 hours ago, rekoboy said:

My latest adventure has nothing to do with European model shops but with a Japanese one, Plaza Japan, where I am a fairly regular mail-order customer. I ordered two items last Tuesday, total cost around £40, paid the eye-watering £22 for delivery by DHL - and the package arrived with no extra fees following copious SMS updates on Sunday afternoon! Just five days' transit. Top service! Note the size of the shipping box compared to the larger(!) of my two purchases!

 

Re the packaging.

I realise a one size fits all system fits in with needs of the supplier and is supposed to keep costs down, but surely putting things in smaller boxes allows more items to be shipped per container/lorry/aeroplane or whatever and that keeps costs down?

The modern world baffles me!

 

Mike.

[Andy Hayter]

Mail (including packages) is sent by air, not in containers.  Air freight is essentially charged per kilo not per metre cubed.  So several packages accrues only marginally more cost than one larger one.  Add to that that some delivery services have cut points for the size (I know - makes no sense to me) and weight of a package and 2 boxes may be cheaper than a big one if you exceed the size/weight limits.

[irishmail]

Has anyone ever used the DHL option with order value over €150.00 and if so how did it go?  According to Hatton's it should be shipped with out any additional fees.  Following is a quote from Hatton's website.

 

DDP

For orders placed via DHL to countries listed below.

Delivered Duties Paid
Charged on orders over €150 in value.

We have VAT registration in the countries listed below, so VAT, admin fees and duties fees are included when your order is placed and processed using DHL.

Royal Mail & DPD are not applicable, and are covered under the DAP section to the right.

Countries affected:

Belgium

France

Germany

Ireland (Republic of)

Italy

Netherlands (Holland)

Spain (mainland)

United Kingdom

 

If you are charged by DHL for your order to any of the countries listed above, please get in touch.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, irishmail said:

Has anyone ever used the DHL option with order value over €150.00 and if so how did it go?  According to Hatton's it should be shipped with out any additional fees.  Following is a quote from Hatton's website.

 

DDP

For orders placed via DHL to countries listed below.

Delivered Duties Paid
Charged on orders over €150 in value.

We have VAT registration in the countries listed below, so VAT, admin fees and duties fees are included when your order is placed and processed using DHL.

Royal Mail & DPD are not applicable, and are covered under the DAP section to the right.

Countries affected:

Belgium

France

Germany

Ireland (Republic of)

Italy

Netherlands (Holland)

Spain (mainland)

United Kingdom

 

If you are charged by DHL for your order to any of the countries listed above, please get in touch.

 

As no one else is capable from painful experience of both Hattons and myself, I exclusively use DHL nowadays.

As Hattons state, once you've paid them the fee the package is delivered with no extra charges, and usually within a couple of days.

I'd recommend this option.

 

Mike.

[Neils WRX]

Anyone had any success claiming for excess postage from HMRC using an online form.

 

Just had to pay £42 to get a few bits and pieces that were less than £100.

 

Interesting the shipping label had gone (plastic envelope sliced) and a £30 VAT charge applied plus £12 handling applied. No idea how they calculated that amount.

 

Very nearly sent it back.

 

 

[MikeB]

30 minutes ago, Neils WRX said:

Anyone had any success claiming for excess postage from HMRC using an online form.

 

Just had to pay £42 to get a few bits and pieces that were less than £100.

 

Interesting the shipping label had gone (plastic envelope sliced) and a £30 VAT charge applied plus £12 handling applied. No idea how they calculated that amount.

 

Very nearly sent it back.

 

 

Yes, I obtained a refund for duty which had been incorrectly charged, and the VAT on the duty. More info is in my post in this topic on 23 Sept 2021, on page 38. You have to print the form and post it and other paperwork to HMRC, eg the charge label showing what was paid and the invoice /label so they can recalculate what should have been paid. So if the items cost £90, the refund should be £12.  (£42 paid - £12 fee - £18 as 20% VAT on £90).  Another point is that as the cost was under £135 the VAT should already have been paid by you to the vendor, and you should not have had to pay anything else.  Did the seller's price include UK VAT?

  

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by MikeB

[Neils WRX]

43 minutes ago, MikeB said:

Yes, I obtained a refund for duty which had been incorrectly charged, and the VAT on the duty. More info is in my post in this topic on 23 Sept 2021, on page 38. You have to print the form and post it and other paperwork to HMRC, eg the charge label showing what was paid and the invoice /label so they can recalculate what should have been paid. So if the items cost £90, the refund should be £12.  (£42 paid - £12 fee - £18 as 20% VAT on £90).  Another point is that as the cost was under £135 the VAT should already have been paid by you to the vendor, and you should not have had to pay anything else.  Did the seller's price include UK VAT?

  

 

I’ve asked them for a copy of the invoice but as far as I’m aware I paid VAT.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Wish me luck!!

 

Neil

[MikeB]

5 hours ago, Neils WRX said:

I’ve asked them for a copy of the invoice but as far as I’m aware I paid VAT.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Wish me luck!!

 

Neil

Good Luck!

As the value of the items are below the threshold, you should get the whole £42 back, if they came from a major shop of through e-Bay, who should have dealt with the UK VAT requirements.  If it's a small shop or private seller and UK VAT has not been paid, there may be issues, but it's not your fault and you should at least get back any excess charges made.  When you say that the shipping label had gone, that sounds strange.  Who removed it - HMRC?  Was there a copy inside the package? .

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by MikeB

[TTDB]

I don’t know if this is any interest to members here I have purchased some odd items of model railway locos mostly scaletrains, and  mostly  guitar pedals and parts. Using a U.S.-based shipping agent called shipito Basically they give you an address in one of the states in the USA you purchase items off any website using this address paying by PayPal is best as you add this address to your PayPal account your items then without question get sent to your US shipto address. Mine is located in Torrance California when you build up a considerable amount in your little cachet you  combine shipping and choose a shipping method of your choice and have them sent to you here in the UK. You complete your own labels, even declaring your own customs, although I do not recommend any false documentation as if things go wrong in the post it can affect any claims you might want to make against loss. I have not used the US  service for a while now but I do know it is a very keenly priced., but I noticed Recently on their webpage, they have a Austrian address also which may be of use of anybody wanting to purchase models from a  shop that will not ship to the UK. You just get them shipped to your Austrian address, and do as you would if you were in the states until you’ve got a large consignment , then filling the  documentation in  including the customs and have them sent to your UK address,  I might have a go at purchasing off ebay.de and send it  to the Austrian shipito address i I am going to give it a go with something simple like a cheap wagon or coach,

[irishmail]

Hatton's now offer additional shipping options with Evri/Fastway and DPD which are both cheaper than DHL.  I have today received a parcel via DPD today, collected Monday afternoon with out any hassle.

Good to have more options and avoid the Royalmail/Anpost lottery. 

Sample prices from Hatton's website.

 

Republic of Ireland
£3.50 Royal Mail. Zone 05. Airmail Untracked. Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Ave 3-5 day transit time.
£5 EVRI International via Fastway. Ireland. Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Ave 2-4 day transit time.
£8.96 Royal Mail. Western Europe. Airmail "Signed for". Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Avg 3-5 day transit time.
£9 DPD Republic of Ireland. 2-day with tracking up to 10kg
£23 DHL Express Priority. Insured, tracked & signed-for. Delivered 1 working day after despatch. Zone 1 - up to 1kg

[LimboBrit]

15 hours ago, irishmail said:

£8.96 Royal Mail. Western Europe. Airmail "Signed for". Weighs between 001g and 300g when packed. Avg 3-5 day transit time.

Unless it's going to the Netherlands in which case standard transit time is 3-5 weeks. It's not Royal Mail's fault but is down to the incompetence of their partner PostNL. I wonder if Royal Mail is aware of the unbelievably poor performance of their business partner.

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

Unless it's going to the Netherlands in which case standard transit time is 3-5 weeks. It's not Royal Mail's fault but is down to the incompetence of their partner PostNL. I wonder if Royal Mail is aware of the unbelievably poor performance of their business partner.

 

Similarly with Correos, their partner/equivalent in Spain, although we are talking months, not weeks.

 

Mike.

[SimonBoulton]

On 06/04/2023 at 16:11, Neils WRX said:

Anyone had any success claiming for excess postage from HMRC using an online form.

 

Just had to pay £42 to get a few bits and pieces that were less than £100.

 

Interesting the shipping label had gone (plastic envelope sliced) and a £30 VAT charge applied plus £12 handling applied. No idea how they calculated that amount.

 

Very nearly sent it back.

 

 

Would the VAT be right if you include the postage? Seems unlikely though, cos you’d need the total to be £150? I know two friends who had to pay VAT on orders where they went over £135 if you include the postage, that was with FedEx. 
Fedex were adamant they were right and apart from sending the order back, there was no option. 
 

maybe they’ve started checking if the retailer has actually charged the VAT or not?

[Gordonwis]

Received an order (which I thought would be over the so called threshold) from Lippe the other day but it arrived 'unscathed' by Fed Ex 

[jjb1970]

I do find it telling that some shippers seem able to deliver goods speedily while others can't (or won't), indicating that the well publicised changes to trade are manageable if a company knows what it is doing.

[Neils WRX]

6 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Received an order (which I thought would be over the so called threshold) from Lippe the other day but it arrived 'unscathed' by Fed Ex 

Have been billed retrospectively by FedEx…. 
 

You might be ok you might not.

[Nick C]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

...if a company knows what it is doing.

That's asking a lot these days ;)

[Nigel Emery]

20 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Received an order (which I thought would be over the so called threshold) from Lippe the other day but it arrived 'unscathed' by Fed Ex 

FedEx usually bill retrospectively, first by txt and email which I usually ignore and then a couple of weeks later by letter which is when I pay!