Chester Northgate reimagined

[Barry Ten]

56 minutes ago, melmoth said:

Somebody (  @Barry Ten ?)  , somewhere recently suggested experimenting with graphite on the rails to aid conductivity. 

 

Yes, I tried graphite powder first (from a squirty tube) then various grades of B pencil, but I've now got hold of a pure graphite drawing stick which was about 3.50 from ebay. It should be the sort of thing easily found in art shops.

 

It does make a nice improvement to running, but I'm still iterating my way to the best way to use it. I think it's best to clean the track and wheels thoroughly, then apply a little graphite here and there to the railtops, especially near any stalling hotspots. I've also tried applying some directly to the wheels, by stroking the stick across the flanges. I'm not sure if that works but it doesn't seem to hurt. 

 

I made a short clip showing the stick being applied to the rails.

 

 

Hope this is helpful.

[lezz01]

Hmm graphite is also a lubricant is it not? How does it affect adhesion?

Regards Lez.

[Barry Ten]

28 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Hmm graphite is also a lubricant is it not? How does it affect adhesion?

Regards Lez.

 

It probably has an effect but since I don't have gradients or long trains, I haven't noticed one.

[woodenhead]

For the time being I will stick with Contact Cleaner - if it gets the worst performer, the 08, going then it's enough.  The other locos and units don't tend to be a problem, even the diminuitive 04 is a better runner than the 08.

[Flying Pig]

Re track cleaning 

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

I skipped most till I found the chart - WD40 - Contact Cleaner is basically top of the list because who would opt for plane fuel 😁

[Barry Ten]

I think a lot of the best practise around track cleaning depends on the type of layout and the motive power that's likely to be running on it. There are bits of my 15-year old American N layout that have NEVER been cleaned and the rest of it is touched very rarely, if ever, simply because there's no need. I run diesels with a minimum of 4 axles picking up, and sometimes double or quadruple-headed so there is little or no chance of stalling. Also, some of the trains have those clip-on track cleaning pads on the odd boxcar which helps keep the rails shiny. Generally, the only bits that benefit from occasional cleaning are sidings which don't see frequent use. The mainline tracks just don't need it, and neither do the loco wheels. I've never used any sort of cleaning product on the track. I know it's clean, not just because the trains run smoothly, but because if I run my finger along the rails, I don't see any hint of dirt.

 

However, working with Code 40 N, with 0-6-0Ts required to do stop-start shunting, is a different matter. I'm not sure if DCC versus DC isn't a factor, too. The American one is DCC, the British one DC, and I suspect DCC may have the edge for slow-speed running, and perhaps the higher track voltage helps as well?

 

At the end of the day, what works for you is the best solution.

[woodenhead]

@Barry Ten Certainly DCC sees much lower starting points for locos but I am using 12V NCE Powercab - I do remember when I selected it I was conscious of the lower voltage than other systems and nervous of wrecking circuit boards if I caused a short at higher voltage.

 

First trip into DCC so is tread carefully, perhaps one day I might go for a different controller and lift to 18v with some additional protection for shorting.

[Barry Ten]

I also use PowerCab but found that 12V wasn't enough grunt for big sound-equipped N locos pulling heavy trains, so I bought a Maplins variable power adaptor which has been running at 15V for quite a few years. I do have a PSX short circuit protector wired in as well, though.

[spenc]

19 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Cloth and spray can in hand I got to work on the station last night - the troublesome 08 did the throat and each of the platform lines without a stutter.

 

I never realised until recently that track rubbers put down as much as they lift up, so in future I will stick to the contact cleaner and use the rubber for stubborn marks that are then cleaned again with the cleaner.

 

Locos next, one of the 25s was a bit sticky last night, needed some lubrication and a bit of DC running on the rolling road.  Note to self, keep them loose, don't expect them to run faultlessly after 6 months standing idle.  Might need to invest in a cradle so I can use both hands when cleaning the wheels too, maybe one of those track cleaning pads on a stick as well.

Hi why buy a cradle when you can make one,some stiff card and foam for a few penny's.

[woodenhead]

Heathcoat Robinson cradle created with some bubblewrap and wood - good enough to hold locos whilst they get their wheels cleaned.

 

I am quite impressed how smoothly the locos are running, I will no longer be using track rubbers for general cleaning if at all.

[woodenhead]

Spoke too soon and I am becoming more and more disillusioned with N gauge.

 

I seem to recall that I went with DCC first and foremost for ease of wiring and an understanding it would be a smoother ride.

 

What I've encountered is locos that have acceleration profiles that lead to jerking as they cut out and then restart from the bottom of the profile - annoying when you are attempting to run them back in after a lack of use.

 

Anything though that is coupled - steam or shunter seems to be the worst performing, the 04 is better than the 08 which is better than the steam locos in general and by far the worst performer is a Black 5 that even on a DCC loop cannot muster a smooth loop around the test track whereas a bo-bo loco will happily play.  It wasn't even happy on a rolling road just now.

 

Half an hour ago I was seriously contemplating putting all the N onto Ebay, at the moment it looks like the steam locos are going, they all work just not as smoothly as I would like.  Looks like my transition period layout is based on September 1968! 

 

Well the class 50 will be happy with that little change I guess, but me I am looking at the OO box and wondering.....

[woodenhead]

Ok, rant over, not about to sell the diesels but I think steam has had it's day.

 

When an ancient Dapol class 35 performs better than a Farish steam engine, you know what you have to do.

[Davexoc]

49 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Ok, rant over, not about to sell the diesels but I think steam has had it's day.

 

When an ancient Dapol class 35 performs better than a Farish steam engine, you know what you have to do.

 

I wouldn't say all steam locos don't perform, but they can be a bit temperamental. Although I run DC, the Farish Castle is a superb runner, but my steam is all preserved, so they don't run very often. Not a great fan of Dapol tender drives. My normal method for running in is to double up with a similar loco and leave doing circuits, then if either stutters the others gives it a nudge to keep going....

 

Class 08 doesn't run as well as 04, which will creep along with 50+ minerals in tow. Bo-Bo locos are all good, others need a bit of pick-up tweaking, especially class 47s for some reason. All Dapol diesels though need more volts to actually get going....

 

I look at OO and admire what is made these days, but for me, the desire for scale length trains says N all the way!

Stick with it, Ben and Mike were extolling its virtues on Radio 2 earlier.

[woodenhead]

Never rains but it pours - now the Co-Bo which was working earlier is making a whiny sound when on the track, an electric sound and no operation.

 

The chip has blown, it whines on DCC but if I put in a blanking plate and onto the rolling road on DC it's fine.

 

It was running earlier had the sound on as it trundled up and down the layout.

 

Typically it went as I was about to give it an address other than 3

[woodenhead]

It's a funny old world - less than a week ago I was ready to sell all my N gauge, yesterday I was purchasing a couple of class 47 bogie spares to hopefully fix one of my 47s and the Co-Bo will be on the way back to Rapido for repair in the next day.

 

Trains have been running on the layout though for the time being steam engines are back in their boxes.

 

I saw a video yesterday on someone adding a stay alive to the next 18 class 08, mine is the previous generation but I've already chipped it with an MX615R - this has the +tive and ground tabs required for a stay alive.  So I think I will give it a go when I can source something small enough though this will mean cutting away metal on the interior of the loco.

 

The class 47 is one of the earlier blue riband ones, it had the original bogie design which I've already had to file down to stop it grounding but the coupling is sitting too low.  It's later version brother has improved bogies and does not ground, so I've ordered a new set of complete bogies - I could have just got the frames but as it's a decade or more old I thought I'd do the lot as it's probably going to split a gear sometime and now I will have spares.

 

So yeah the love hate relationship with N continues...

[woodenhead]

The N gauge love in continues...

 

By chance today I noticed that Bachmann Spares has added new class 37 bodies, so I've picked myself up a nice 68xx green body with small yellow ends.

 

Think I have also found a stay alive to fit the 08 - a Lais one from Digitrains, before purchasing have emailed to check suitability with the decoders I have on the loco.  Will order two, and then I will embed the second into a single plank wagon that can then be connected to the 04.  I might want to source a micro connector of some sort for that so I can detach if I need to.

 

Is is just me that has this painful relationship with N gauge?

[melmoth]

It sometimes reads as if your painful relationship is not so much with N gauge, but with the combination of N gauge and DCC. Having said that, I have a drawerful of blue N gauge diesel hydraulics and mk1s that will eventually run on a terminus layout much like yours, and that's definitely going to be DCC.

[woodenhead]

46 minutes ago, melmoth said:

It sometimes reads as if your painful relationship is not so much with N gauge, but with the combination of N gauge and DCC. Having said that, I have a drawerful of blue N gauge diesel hydraulics and mk1s that will eventually run on a terminus layout much like yours, and that's definitely going to be DCC.

No it's definitely N gauge and it mirrors the same difficult relationship I had with my father, a lifelong N gauge modeller.

 

When I moved up to OO for a period I sold a few bits of N but kept most because I couldn't part with it, then came back to it.  It's all stuff I purchased myself so it's not my Dad's stuff handed down or anything like that.  In fact he moved to North American N and I was meant to get that in his Will until he gave the lot away to a plumber about 6 months before he died.  I'm not bitter about that, it was a relief in many ways,, but it kind of reflects our relationship as well - difficult.  He wasn't a bad person or anything like that, but his life had been hard and it left him mentally scarred and distant.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I find that cleanliness of track and wheels is very important for DCC in N gauge—especially with sound. Steam engines can certainly be more problematic when running, even in DC. That said, I've found coreless motored Farish steam locos to be fine, including an Ivatt 2MT I obtained second-hand with YouChoos sound fitted, and a new sound-fitted Farish 4F; I have one of the forthcoming sound-fitted Ivatts on pre-order. 
 

Some of the Rapido class 28s had decoders that failed if the address was changed from the default—looks like yours may be one. One of my pair of class 28s was OK on arrival, but I haven't got round to changing its address. The other was completely dead, but was fixed.

 

Generally diesels do perform better, but my only DCC fitted Dapol diesel — a class 33 — tends to race away and I'm still attempting to tame it. As the similar class 27s perform fine on DCC, I assume this is a decoder issue.

[woodenhead]

On 17/07/2023 at 12:18, woodenhead said:

The class 47 is one of the earlier blue riband ones, it had the original bogie design which I've already had to file down to stop it grounding but the coupling is sitting too low.  It's later version brother has improved bogies and does not ground, so I've ordered a new set of complete bogies - I could have just got the frames but as it's a decade or more old I thought I'd do the lot as it's probably going to split a gear sometime and now I will have spares.

 

So yeah the love hate relationship with N continues...

When one of the new bogies from Bachmann spares arrives showing signs of a split gear!

 

Tested them before fitting seemed ok, added a little oil as they appeared dry, put on the loco - it can barely start.  After some swapping between old and new established one of the bogies is stiff and emitting a knocking sound in one direction.  Methinks this needs to go back to Bachmann-Spares for a replacement spare - so one new and one old bogie on the loco and it's running fine and not catching on points.

 

Now I could do a wheelset swap, but I paid cash for a new bogie so really doing a wheel swap defeats the object of the whole change.

 

I think the trainset was better when I just looked at it rather than tried to play with it 🤣

[woodenhead]

The loco yard is a bit full, D68xx body has arrived 

 

A little blurry too, looked fine to my eyes when I took it, damn my eyes 😃

Edited July 20, 2023 by woodenhead

[woodenhead]

So the replacement replacement class 47 bogie arrived from Bachmann Spares today - that's less than a week since I sent it to them and I used second class post to return the broken one.

 

That's a pretty amazing turnaround for a spare part.

 

The 47 was trunding back and forth, no longer catching the coupling on the points, so happy person am I.

[woodenhead]

Trains have been played with!!

 

As I use each train on a cassette I am cleaning the cassette and a little wooden implement has been fashioned to rub a cloth soaked in contact cleaner on the track.

 

The shunters are still a bit problematic, the cure I think is going to be stay alives which I must order.

 

But other diesel locos are running fine, one big short issue today was my own fault for not correctly changing the single slip.

 

Discovered some of my cassettes were built single ended as I was being lazy when I knocked them together, so as they get emptied I will put that right as I am now simply turning them with the loco in situ for its return rather than putting the loco onto it's own cassette.

 

Instead of a timetable for the time being I am simply going cycling through the cassettes as well.

 

So understanding now that clean track without using rubbers is the way forward and seeing trains running quite well, the station uncouplers working to release the loco and generally enyoing running it I am a lot happier again with the layout.

 

Happy days

 

[woodenhead]

I've come back to the timetable conundrum - I had 7 loco haul cassettes and 4 DMU cassettes.

 

I've given it thought and rather than a timetable to follow, I might just create a plan to cycle through the cassettes and actually if I don't need to look for a particular train for a timetable then I can add 5 more loco hauled cassettes (making 12 trains) in total stacked in twos.

 

Then I simply cycle through those 12 cassettes in order - take from the back, return to the front interspersed with DMU services.

 

This will let me add some more trains to the layout - a sleeper, a Bulleid green inter-regional, the Mk2a set and something else or maybe two.

 

It feels easier to cycle through cassettes than try and run an absolutely strict timetable (that I've yet to get past the early stages of actually writing it).

 

My extra long cassettes that are sitting unused as unsuitable for the current layout and frankly difficult to manage have now been cut down to produce the additional five cassettes, need to add some bracing around the layout though before I commence stacking loaded cassettes so they cannot fall off!