Chester Northgate reimagined

[woodenhead]

A mixed afternoon, my 08 now has a Lais Stay Alive fitted, body needs some metal cutting to remove the interior still, but thats for another day.

 

The plan with the 04 was a little different, no space inside the body for the Stay Alive so I was going to put it into a van with a detatachable connector to the chip so that they are only semi permanently coupled.

 

I fitted the female connector to the chip but something has gone wrong - no obvious over run from the solder but the loco now only runs at full speed in one direction and no movement in the other direction other than a feint buzzing.  Sounds like something is damaged!

 

I shall have a chat with Digitrains tomorrow - it does kinda offer me a chance to upgrade to sound if want to also stick a speaker in the van however I am a bit ambivalent about sound at the moment.  If I don't I'll get them to wire on the female connector to another MX615R so I don't have to again.

 

I think I need new eyes and a smaller soldering iron.

Edited August 13, 2023 by woodenhead

[woodenhead]

So the 08 is back together.

 

That was not easy, my rule of never grinding the metal part of my locos went out the window.

 

Took ages to make space to accommodate the Stay Alive, in the end it’s wired through a hole in the cab and I’ve used the micro connector to let me split it again if I have to.  
 

Every time I tried though to fit the cab the black wire to the stay alive would break, but eventually I got there.
 

And it’s working 

[montyburns56]

On 13/08/2023 at 16:58, woodenhead said:

The plan with the 04 was a little different, no space inside the body for the Stay Alive so I was going to put it into a van with a detatachable connector to the chip so that they are only semi permanently coupled.

 

 

 

Have you thought about putting some kind of box/crate on a match wagon to replicate those used in real life?

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Have you thought about putting some kind of box/crate on a match wagon to replicate those used in real life?

Indeed that was plan A but then the stuff arrived and I saw the size of the connector which whilst tiny is quite long.

 

I can unscrew a Dapol Fruit D and put the stay alive inside it with little surgery to the van interior which will do for the time being but plan A is to get a 1 plank or a conflat, put a hole in the middle to sink the stay alive into and then cover it in some manner.

[Davexoc]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Indeed that was plan A but then the stuff arrived and I saw the size of the connector which whilst tiny is quite long.

 

I can unscrew a Dapol Fruit D and put the stay alive inside it with little surgery to the van interior which will do for the time being but plan A is to get a 1 plank or a conflat, put a hole in the middle to sink the stay alive into and then cover it in some manner.

 

The match wagon is still available

 

https://www.themodelcentre.com/377-343-11

[woodenhead]

I am really taken by how much controllable the 08 is with stay alive.

 

Think I might do the same to my 101/108 DMUs which don’t like crawling starts.  I’ll do it on one and if that works do the others.  
 

Gonna order a new iron though first.

[woodenhead]

Fitted a Lais Stay Alive to the first of 4 DMUs this evening.

 

Took way longer than it should have, ended up with black tack on the worm, which in a 108 is difficult to do, and nearly snapped the body.

 

But like the 08 massive improvement in low speed performance, so I will be doing the other DMUs too.

[woodenhead]

Tonight I did a Stay Alive onto an MS500 decoder, this was the latest type of 6 pin sound decoder from Zimo and comes ready wired for the stay alive.

 

The hardest bit was fitting it into the space available, one cab space has a speaker in already and now the other has the stay alive.  Bit of a tight old squeeze getting the body back on, ened up glueing the red light prisms in place so the slightest movement wouldn't ping them out.

 

All done now and it's warbling away on the layout and crawls beautifully, not that it was really a problem before, but I figure the more practice on the easier stuff the more I'll be willing to take on the harder projects like the Dapol locos and the Hydraulics.

 

Once the trains are all running nicely I will begin scenics....

[woodenhead]

Uh oh....

 

 

Stock has been confined to Fiddleyard.

 

I thought one of the Cobalts had broken but it seems fine now so for the time being it stays in place, was about to swap it out for a spare.

 

However, whilst everything is off the layout perhaps I should begin to think scenics especially as I believe that I can now obtain the sort of motor control on the locos I want through stay alives.

 

So plans for the next few weeks:

• New platforms that are fixed to the baseboard - wooden frame with something on top
• Station buildings - I really want a Chester Northgate style roof, so I intend to order some bits from York Model Making and build something.  It won't be a replica and I intend to put the station building at the end or far side so I can see inside as the real station has it's building on the side nearest me and that will block everything as I've already learnt using the Metcalfe stuff.
• Track needs painting
• Ballast needs adding
• More loco conversions to sound, more stay alives, I would like to understand Tantalums and whether they offer another route for me in addition to the Lais ones - will be speaking to Digitrains at Stafford methinks, hopefully they have some there.

If you've seen my thread about FOMO - fear of missing out, you'll see I had a moment about my OO stuff and wanting a second layout.  Well I still want something and having thought about the OO stuff I have, the replacement models for those coming from Rapido and Dapol and the space it would take up, I've realised that actually I might like a second freight focussed N gauge layout rather than anything in OO where I will end up spending money to replace perfectly good stuff because of FOMO; money that could go into making my N gauge railway better.  For the time being though I remain focussed on this layout and perhaps selling the OO for another war fund.

[woodenhead]

So no massive progress, but I did get itchy about not being able to run trains so the Metcalfe stuff is back in situ.

 

I started looking at the overall roof requirements, boy did I under estimate just how many trusses I need, in my head 24, putting it down onto paper with a 1/3 length scale drawing of the centre line and I realised it would be 114 trusses at 13mm apart or 78 trusses if spaced 19mm apart.  The latter still looks fine on paper and saves me a bit - £120 for 114 trusses or £84 for 78 trusses.   Affordable, but I am thinking can I set up a production line and build them myself with plasticard which should work out cheaper, be more like the real ones and give me a feeling of accomplishment.  The hard bit is creating the template into which to fit the parts and then glue them including the slight bow on the bottom of the truss.  I plan to be at Milton Keynes, so I will have to purchase something and give it a go for a prototype from which I make make a frame.  If I've 78 to make it's going to be slow process hence I put the Metcalfe station back in so I can play trains..

 

In the electrical department:

• Lais Stay Alives fitted to the Farish DMU fleet and they crawl beautifully now.  One was playing silly devils with the lighting but a bit of fettling with the spring connectors got it back functioning again.
• The 04 has a new chip after I fried the last one attempting with a cr8p iron to add a stay alive.  Then with this new chip, I misunderstood the set up for a Tantalum so presently it is without any stay alive but having now seen that the cab can be separated from the body I might have another go with a Lais but this time in the body rather than as planned in a wagon.
• A second 25 now has three Tantalums wired in and it is running even smoother than it used to, these Farish bo-bos are smooth anyway but this lifts it to a new level.  I need to look inside the class 24s to decide if it is 4 Tantalums (most probably) or a Lais I fit into them.
• Body off a Dapol Hymek - it has to cab interiors I can remove so I think a sound project will be going in when I can get around to ordering a zimo sound chip, might also do the Western whilst I am at it.

[woodenhead]

Couple sound solutions and some more stay alives arrived yesterday.

 

One Hymek sound fitted:

One Western sound fitted

Class 24 with stay alive for excellent crawling

And a bit of a class 24 idling away, back to the 70s...

 

Couple of things have turned up that need attention - point motor uprights are catching the 24s and 25s in places, need to get a file out to resolve that.  Found an isolator has come away and the track is sticking up, in an odd location so don't know how it's occurred but I need to muck about with a point to reset it as it should be.

 

The Western has had to give up it's cab interiors and lighting (for the time being) to make space for the sound and stay alive, not really noticeable in N but I do miss the lights as I can see which way the engine intends to move.  The problem was that Dapol glued the wires to the cabin interior, they are not going to come away I don't think without damaging the wires, I think I'll need to replace them with new LEDs.  That in itself was a revelation to me, I had never considered doing my own lighting in a loco.  The Hymek has retained it's lights but for some reason the MS490N chips (same on the Western, I tested it with the lights in place) are not putting the lights on with F0, I could make the lights illuminate with F8 on the Western (to turn off the tail light) but the Hymek does not have that function.   I've posted elsewhere if anyone has any ideas and I will be contacting Digitrains on Monday, I really think this is a firmware/software not hardware issue.

 

Had a look inside a 37 yesterday too, should be no problem fitting a speaker and stay alive to the two I have, but the 47 looks like another where I would lose the lighting as does the Dapol 22.  So that leaves me with two 37s and another Hymek to add sound/Stay Alives to before I perhaps sort out the lighting on the 52 in readiness for attempting the 47s and 22.

 

But the low speed control I now have with these stay alives is immense, being able to crawl a loco really changes the dynamic of playing with N gauge, it's like the level of control I would have in OO.  Really don't feel I am missing out in OO anymore, this is proving quite fun, even Mrs W notices I am actually enjoying having a model railway.  Really glad I got a newer iron, being able to literally dab a contact with it and it leave behind a smidgen of solder has made such a difference to my confidence when it comes to attacking locos and chips.

[DavidLong]

Well done! Glad your persistence was worth it.

 

David

[woodenhead]

After a couple of false starts because I lacked some knowledge, the 04 is now fitted with a stay alive and it does not require a match wagon to house it.

 

I'd seen someone fit a small Lais stay alive into an 04 cab, but later realised it was using the later chassis with the 6 pin plug and a new smaller motor - I was facing the original 04 chassis with a big motor and tiny cab space.

 

Step 1 - take the thing to bits

 

For me this is a brave move, not something I would normally do but I figured the worst case scenario would be I'd have to buy a newer DCC ready one and that would be easier.  I split the frame from the body parts as this would allow me to put the loco back together one element at a time.  I figured that if I remove part of the housing that acts as a little extra weight and keeps the worm in situ that I might have the space I need.  I also removed the nut/bolt that brings power through the chassis, replacing it by wiring the black wire directly to the brass plate that holds the contacts and passing the wire up through the hole where the nut used to be.

 

 

With a bit more space I soldered on the stay alie and tested the loco

 

 

Next was positioning the stay alive and the chip, initially I tried to get them side by side in the cab, but the glazing got in the way and I could not close the cab onto the loco, eventually I realised I could position the chip in a little gap that now existed at the front of the cab.

 

 

 

And then on with the bonnet

 

 

Then some more tests on the layout

 

And finally across the throat and through the slip

 

It isn't perfect, but what is, the main thing is that it runs and the stay alive works.

 

Perhaps I am finally overcoming my fears when it comes to dealing with challenges, in the past I would not have even attempted anything that meant surgery on the loco.

 

Took a few hours to work through, contemplating each move and regularly testing that nothing was shorting, all paid off.

 

Well chuffed this evening.

 

 

[Davexoc]

I've got one of the original 04s, which have quite a good haulage capacity. I found that hauling 50-odd 27T tipplers was a good form of stay-alive, the loco faltered, 50+ couplings close up and nudged it back into life....

[woodenhead]

@Davexoc I’ll have to keep the weight off the loco, the worm is not quite so securely in place without its complete housing.

 

Should be ok for what I need though.

[TT100 Diesels]

Hi Woodenhead,

 

That 04 job looks like it has been a great confidence builder for you, well done.

 

I don't like to comment much on other folks musings, but in this case, if I may be allowed, I would just like to say that I think that your decision to break out of the FOMO thing is the best think to do and its got you properly concentrating on the job in hand, and you appear to be enthusiastic about it as well which is great.

 

Better to focus on this layout project and not be distracted by other scales, as appealling and tempting as they are. The station roof / support structure you mention just up thread is a point in case. It will require some dedication and enthusiasm to complete, but at the end will, I am sure, be a stunning centrepiece to the layout. Something unique that you will have created. It will mean so much more than (by way of example, other scales temptations) a fleet of OO Accurascale 37's or SLW Sulzers, as lovely as they are.

 

Anyway, good luck with this ongoing layout project.

 

Cheers

 

TT100 Diesels

[woodenhead]

Hmm so my original 47 which was one of the early blue riband versions with a 6 pin DCC socket is acting up.

 

It had the original bogies for the Farish 47 which had the bigger body gap and would ground on points, I shaved some plastic off the gear covers to solve the point problem but when I attached Dapol easishunts I found they too were too low and caught on points.

 

So a few months back I purchased a couple of replacement bogie towers which were of a later design - onto the loco - no grounding, no issue with the easishunts but the loco did not seem too happy with them.  I had the loco running, well attempting to run it last night, it doesn't sound happy on those bogies.  It hints at split gears but I'm not convinced that is the issue, it sounds more within the motor / gears interface like not only did they change the bottom of the tower (the original bogie frame will not fit onto the later tower) but perhaps also the fit at the top so these new bogies look like the old ones but do not sit happily within an earlier 47.

 

It's all very strange, I'm going to work at it a little more but when a blue or a green 47 appears with Next18 I think I will buy a replacement and I can sell the loco with it's original bogies/normal couplings where it worked fine.

[woodenhead]

Class 37 sound fit today - if I want stay alive I am going to have to cut metal - no two ways about it.

 

Did a test fit before ordering the bits but I did not anticipate the length of the sound chip and it's vertical clearance - b@gger.

 

At the moment the loco is in bits pending a visit from the Dremel and a metal file

 

For someone who swore he did not take his locos to bit I seem to be getting rather adventurous in my old age.

 

 

[woodenhead]

Got the big file out, filed away and now I have this:

 

Sounds good, it has stay alive but can anyone see what's wrong.......I can and I do intend to fix it, just not right now.

 

But filing away part of the chassis block was the correct move, I can see me moving into doing more of this going forward - taking a loco down to individual parts is not so hard after all.

[richierich]

Having skimmed through the last six pages, I share your frustrations with the running qualities of N gauge.  I have a Farish 08 and well hmmm running qualities are well poor, not matter how much I fettle it. Wondering about a core less motor conversion.
 

Some models run ok and others are well annoying. Absolutely clean track , wheel faces and pick ups are a must to get smooth running. 

 

4mm is more forgiving but space hungry

 

7mm love the detail, extremely space hungry and quick way to become bankrupt!

[woodenhead]

@richierich No matter what I do I seem wedded to N gauge, it's like an sore I have to constantly pick at haha.

 

My mood when it comes to model railways changes a lot and I do find it difficult to move forward.  I've modelled in 009, 00 and N over the past 50 years but I always come back to N, I still have some OO stuff more than enough for a railway but it remains in boxes at present and I'm only modelling the N stuff.

 

Something has changed though in me of late, might be an age thing or I have simply gotten less bothered but I have begun to mess about with my locos to make them more reliable on less than ideally clean surfaces - so that means Lais or Tantalums (though jury remains out on these at present for me).   It also means removing bits within the loco body to make space, where I can I use the cab space but I am running out of locos where this would be suitable and with the 37 above I did resort to removing some of the chassis block to make space for Tantalums as the Lais was about 2mm too big.  One of my class 25s was behaving awkwardly recently when it has been out of use, so I stripped down the bogies and gave them a clean which seems to have stopped the problem. 

 

Even now with the track laid on this layout I am finding I am having to fight my own urge to rip it up and do it over again so far the keep it as it is winning but I have been planning something else in XTrackCad.  Really I want to paint the track, get some ballast down and build the real station that I want but I cannot get going on it, so this is a real slow burning layout.

[woodenhead]

Still in the doldrums.

 

Do I rebuild?

 

Do I go 2mm fs?

 

Do I drop cassettes for a traverser?

 

The urge to rebuild is strong.  Two reasons, I feel I’ve crammed in the throat to make it all fit in the scenic space, which in turn has crammed the station. I’ve designed a slightly different version with less points, I will accept there are more points in the world beyond the break. I’ve also added three platform faces in the design whilst retaining the original Northgate design as well.  The reasoning is I want the local services to have their own platforms in my world.  It’s still up in the air how I will proceed but I have now purchased roof trusses to build a roof to cover the platforms at the station end.  In my version the station building will be turned and placed at the end of the platforms as well.  Plasticard has been purchased and I will build the station first and lay the track around it.

 

The 2mm and N gauge track building urge is still here and @Izzy’s latest mini project and foam board base is interesting.  But I am tangenting when I should be sticking to one project.

 

Then there is the fiddleyard, if I swap to a traverser I gain a second spare board for whatever other project I fancy, I might also be more inclined to play trains if I don’t have to manoeuvre a four foot stick every train movement.

 

So little progress but some green shoots and despite me writing this on the internet, I am actually spending less time online and more time reading and doing other stuff than vegetating on a machine.

 

Back to the Iain Rice plastic structure book…..

[Izzy]

Although it’s been driven by lack of space to have bigger layouts down the decades I’ve slowly come to understand that for me at least as a lone modeller the saying less is more really does apply. Picking a station that allows a wide variety of train movements and services such as you have done is key I believe. Even though I didn’t have that in mind I have managed that with my Priory Road and the scope that has resulted is most beneficial. I do sometimes wish it was just a bit bigger in both length and width, but not too much. So if I’m totally honest while I am envious of the space you have I think that I would reduce the station trackwork a bit and instead have more fiddle capacity. Sometimes I think more fiddle space for easy use is more important than the main layout design. Whenever I see really big layouts now I think, well that looks nice, but I can only run and control, and look at, one train at a time. 

 

With regard to your sometimes unreliable running this might be down to the track. The Peco rail is very narrow in head section so the slightest bit of dust or dirt is problematic even allowing for stay-alive. The 2mm code 40 is wider at 0.5mm and I haven’t found the need to fit SA to any of my bogie diesels. They mainly have steel tyred 2mm wheels which do seem better for current collection.

 

If you can afford to do it going 2mm and using the British Finescale trackwork/points might bring benefits. Or even using that track in N. (I wouldn’t be able to stand the still bumpy ride through the pointwork, but that’s just me).

 

Enjoy the ride whatever!

 

Bob

[woodenhead]

The redesign is something along these lines:

Top  four lines are basically Chester Northgate, the bottom four I've added.  I see it operating something like this from top to botton:

1. Main platform for mainline services
2. Siding for parcels
3. Siding for parcels
4. Parcels and occasional passenger
5. Parcels
6. Local services
7. Local services
8. Local services

The fiddleyard if a traverser would hold 11/12 parcels and mainline trains plus some using some points to store my dmus allowing also for a class 120 when RevolutioN get around to it.  I also hope to be able to put some loco stubs on the main baseboard to store locos (off scene) via the traverser.  A traverser also allows electrical continuity easier that having to plug cassettes to something when shunting of some elements of the existing layout, great when I am using sound.

 

But before I head off rebuilding I actually want to construct the roof and the station building as I will then build the platforms and track within it.  I've got the trusses so I know how each span impacts each platform etc and it will be in the style of Chester Northgate albeit double the width as more platforms.  I've got enough images of the station to create a pastiche of it as well.

 

I like the reduction in points, it has a more flowing feel than the present layout that is too cramped for the size of station and I especially dislike how trains currently leave the top line across a complex throat with a lot of points that I really liked in the design stage but didn't seem right once built.

 

The extra platforms are not to create a busy station, in fact the opposite, I want trains to be able to arrive and dwell for ages and more platforms allows for that as I don't need to have one train exit for another to enter - though to be fair I can do that now too lol.  I sort of want a 1970s Manchester Victoria vibe - a lot of station but not always busy.