Mol's MSC Layout: "The Boysnope Bump"

[Mol_PMB]

18 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Did you go anywhere near the partially sunken concrete barges on your walk?

No, we didn't go west of Warburton this time. I have in the past walked on the north bank to nearly Woolston Eyes, along the former trackbed. Quite a hike there and back from Urmston.

After starting with grandiose plans to model a Manchester Liner, then a coaster, then reduced to a tug, then to a barge, I have had to accept that there would be no room for a railway if I modelled a vessel in this space! I'm not even sure I've got room for a rowing boat though I am thinking of modelling the Hulmes Ferry jetty.

[Mol_PMB]

While the middle panel of cork is gluing, I decided to make a right mess and shape some expanded polystyrene blocks to form the canal bank.

The bench saw is a great tool for this, but I am now covered in white bits. I was supposed to go out shopping this evening, should have done that first!

 

I roughed out some rebates for some of the features I am going to represent on the bank.

These pieces aren't fixed in place yet, I'll have another look tomorrow and decide if I'm happy with the arrangement. Although the real canal banks are fairly uniform I think it needs a few more lumps and bumps.

 

A small pot of Copydex miraculously appeared from Guide Dog Bridge this afternoon for sticking down the track. I have also done a test piece to see whether it will glue expanded polystyrene to plywood without eating through the polystyrene. I've ordered my own pot of Copydex as there's not much left in this one.

 

For the track I am using some 20-year-old Marcway points that I've had in stock and never used. Their geometry is ideal for this layout, and they're free and available now (whereas new points seem to be in short supply). They're basically machined rail soldered to copperclad strips and that has two issues:

(1) there is no representation of chairs

(2) the thickness of the sleepers is about 2mm less than the Peco streamline track I am using for the rest of the track.

 

For now, I can live with (1) and perhaps in future I can add some cosmetic chairs if the mood takes me. For (2) I need to pack them up 2mm above the cork layer. My plan at the moment is some stiff 2mm card that I have in stock, but I'm slightly nervous it will swell when I dampen everything during ballasting. I'll have to do a little test piece of that too.

 

At present I haven't decided how to secure the ballast. Although the diluted Copydex idea sounds good for keeping everything slightly resilient, I have also heard that the bond isn't nearly as firm as with PVA, and it is prone to get damaged when track cleaning. Any thoughts?

[doilum]

There may be reason why 98% of modellers use PVA...........

[Mol_PMB]

Since the last update I have made some more progress:

• I tested the 2mm card to see if it would swell when soaked in dilute PVA and dried. It doesn't - good. So I have cut out some turnout - shaped pieces and stuck them under the two turnouts. These are now the same height as the Peco streamline track.
• I have stuck down all the remaining cork sheet. The last little bit is gluing under that grey box. Note that the extension board is temporary for testing purposes and will later be replaced by a sector plate. It will be a good practice piece for scenic techniques such as ballasting, static grass etc.
• The point motors I ordered have arrived.
• I have tried sticking some of the expanded polystyrene with copydex and that works very well. There is more to do, but I'm waiting for a new pot of copydex. I have also done some more shaping of the polystyrene including an area with a slight bank slip.
• I have ordered some cosmetic chairs and fishplates to hopefully improve the appearance of the soldered pointwork.

Next steps with this are to mark out the track plan full-size and make the arrangements for the point motors. I'm wondering whether to fit a more subtle tie-bar to the points as well, as part of that work.

I then need to cut the track sections to length, solder some dropper wires to them, drill some holes for the wires, and then fix it all down.

 

[5050]

Sticking chairs to copperclad sleepers might not work out as intended.  The rail is soldered directly to the sleeper without a gap and chairs raise the rail away from the sleeper  A bit of hacking of the chairs might work for 7mm scale but in 4mm it's not very convincing.

 

I seal card with Ronseal Rotten Wood preservative.  Works a treat for me.  I've also used it on thin balsa to 'toughen' it up a bit.

[Mol_PMB]

A little update on the layout. 

Now that all the cork is stuck down, I’ve marked out the track centrelines and drilled holes for the point motor rods. 

I have mounted some small wooden blocks on the underside, with another layer of cork on for mounting the point motors. I needed the wood blocks to give a bit more thickness to screw the motors into (the board surface is only 5mm thick). Also it will mean that the operating rod coming up to the tiebar will be a bit longer so will have a bit more flex. 

Then I turned the board right way up again and glued all the polystyrene blocks in place along the front where they form the canal bank. 

I’ll leave that to set overnight before I start playing with lengths of track and working out where the rail joints and dropper wires will be positioned. 

[Mol_PMB]

I have at least found the 08. I actually did a better job of this than I had remembered, though I never did quite finish it. This was about 15 years ago. 

 

I will see if I can make it work and if so it can be used for layout testing. 

[doilum]

Is that a kit build then?

[Mol_PMB]

18 minutes ago, doilum said:

Is that a kit build then?

It’s a Bachmann Brass one, which I painted and fitted dcc lighting. No tiny LEDs back then so it had fibre optics to all the little headlights. 

[Mol_PMB]

I have spent a fair bit of time on the layout today. I’ve cut the track sections to length, and cleaned up the ends and the locations where I wanted to fit dropper wires. I also gave the tops of the rails a clean. Some of these track sections are almost 30 years old and started their working life on a garden railway so they have quite a patina! 

 

I drilled holes for the dropper wires and then carefully marked the final positions of the points, then stuck them down. They’ve been gluing with a weight on them for 8 hours now, and in the meantime I’ve prepared all the other track sections. Before sticking those down I had a quick play with a couple of wagons to make sure everything ran smoothly. It does. 

 

Next I will stick down the other track sections and leave them overnight. 

 

Tomorrow’s job is to turn the layout over and do the wiring, including fitting the point motors. 

 

Also I will try and find my old controller and see if I can persuade the 08 to run! 

[Mol_PMB]

The track is now all well fixed and I have started wiring and fitting point motors. I haven’t made as much progress this morning as I had hoped, owing to real life getting in the way. Hopefully later. 

I have also found my DCC controller, though I have not yet tested it. It’s rather the ‘ZX Spectrum’ of DCC, an ancient thing with rubbery buttons that didn’t work very well 15 years ago.

I do hope it still works now because it will enable me to get things tested. 

 

In the longer term I fancy a wireless hand-held or possibly a phone app arrangement. 

[Mol_PMB]

Some successes and some failures this evening. 

The DCC controller works, and the 08 works. I spent a while scratching my head about what its DCC address might be until in a flash of inspiration I tried the number on the cabside: 3043. That worked!

So it has trundled up and down the layout. 

 

Then I tried getting the points working. At first I had problems with an intermittent short circuit as the blades went across but I have resolved that.

 

I have got the point motors working, but they are not reliable. Sometimes they seem to get stuck and can’t start their movement, they just buzz. Once moving they have no problem getting to the other end of their travel. 

 

Two possible issues to look at:

 

1. A better power supply for them as currently I’m driving them off DCC track power. The spec says they can run off 12-15V ac but perhaps a dedicated power supply would be better? Or rectify the track supply? 

 

2. Some mechanical intervention to the point blades to make them less springy. At present the point motor is having to bend the blades and I think that may be related to the failure to start when there is a load on the mechanism. Perhaps giving the blades some foot relief* would help make them more flexible. 

 

 

* Yes, this is the correct technical term. Google it if you don’t believe me...

[woodenhead]

Found this on Flickr - not sure if you've seen it 220 Ship Canal images.

 

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

Found this on Flickr - not sure if you've seen it 220 Ship Canal images.

Very nice, many thanks! I'd seen some before but others were new.

[Mol_PMB]

My bubble friend who recommended the MP1 point motors has been over this evening to help debug my point motor stalling problems.

 

We discovered the following things:

• Fine adjustments to the position, operating rod stiffness etc didn't improve matters much - I think I had got close to the optimum already.
• Although they will work on either ac or dc (as on the specification), they work very much better on dc. One of the problems was that from raw DCC track power (14Vac) they were badly underpowered. I'm using points where they have to flex the blades; it doesn't take much force but it's more than a normal 00 Peco point. Taking that same DCC track power supply through a bridge rectifier produced about 12Vdc which gave them much more oomph. Adding a chunky capacitor helped a bit more. However, it would still occasionally stall (much less frequently than on the ac supply).
• We tried a standalone 14Vdc power supply (an old Hammant&Morgan dinosaur) and that was even better, no stalling problems at all with that. But it's an extra piece of kit and more wires for a layout I'm trying to keep light and minimal.
• We also tried an MP5 point motor from the same range. These have an extra accessory switch which I don't need, but they are actually lower geared too - the worm wheel inside is larger. No problems with that stalling on the rectified track supply.

So, I think there are some options:

• Try to fine-tune the mechanical positioning with the rectified track supply and see if I can iron out the occasional stalls.
• Install a dedicated power supply for the point motors
• Swap the motors for MP5s

I'm favouring the last option at present, but will mull it over a bit more. 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

I haven’t had much modelling time today but I have made a bit of progress on two scenic features on the canal bank that forms the front of my layout. This was encouraged by the arrival of my laser-cut brickwork. 

 

One feature is a culverted brook and the other is a storm drain, both based on real examples near my prototype location. 

 

I have cut the 5mm ply structure for both, and mocked them up with the brickwork overlays to check it will fit as planned. The bits of wood are now gluing overnight. I intend to complete both structures before installing them on the layout. I will also do the messy bits of ground surfacing around them before installation. 

 

This is the front of the culvert, slotted in position:

The upper part will be covered in a layer of DAS clay and textured to look like worn concrete.

Behind I have roughed out the arch with some offcuts of wood, but it will be pretty dark under there!

Here’s the prototype:

 

This is the storm drain:

It does have a few more parts but I couldn’t prop them all in place at once! I’ll add some more pics in a few days as these develop. 

[Mol_PMB]

This morning I have started one of the messier scenic jobs - adding a surface to the canal bank. I’m using a technique I last used about 10 years ago, and with materials still in stock from that time. I hope it still works!

 

Firstly I mask off areas that I don’t want covered in sludge.

 

I cut lots of strips of newspaper, about 6” x 2”.  

 

I mix up dry polyfiller-type plaster and brown poster paint powder. Then I add some water and some PVA glue to achieve a gooey brown sludge. 

 

I paint the sludge onto the surface of the wood / card / expanded polystyrene, doing a small area at a time. I overlay a strip of newspaper and paint over it with sludge. 

 

This process continues, overlaying the newspaper strips in 2-3 layers. They sometimes need trimming around awkward shapes. That’s how far I’ve got so far:

 

I’ll leave this to dry for a day or two, and check the fit of my structures. Also any areas that would benefit from

some filling with modelling clay or similar. 

 

I’ll then repeat the messy bit with some more layers of sludge and newspaper, and leave it to dry again. 

 

Finally I will lay another layer of sludge and sprinkle fine brown ballast into it to give a slightly textured surface. 

 

 

 

 

Another thing I’ve done today is to trial a method for representing worn concrete on one of my structures. I rolled out some DAS modelling clay about 3mm thick and stuck it to some ply with evo-stick. I then pressed the front face into some very fine sand. 

We’ll see how this works out in my attempts to reproduce this:

[doilum]

Have you tried old school carpet underlay? This is an ideal base for an overgrown embankment.

[Mol_PMB]

38 minutes ago, doilum said:

Have you tried old school carpet underlay? This is an ideal base for an overgrown embankment.

I haven’t, sounds like an interesting idea. Is that the stuff basically made of felt? 

[doilum]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I haven’t, sounds like an interesting idea. Is that the stuff basically made of felt? 

It is a hairy fabric on a Hessian backing. It can be soaked in PVA to form a complete layer. Alternatively, bitscan be torn off and applied to create patches of rough vegetation. Once dry it can be teased and trimmed and painted. It is getting a bit hard to find but there is probably someone reading who has stashed a shed full of the stuff. Sadly I am down to my last few scraps!

Edited February 18, 2021 by doilum

[Mol_PMB]

An update on the layout with some progress on the scenic side.

 

Firstly I have made progress with the two structures on the canal bank - both are now in primer and ready for painting and weathering.

This is the culverted brook:

A few more details will be added after painting, including the tie rods, chains and the re-pointing of one of the cracks (but not the other). I also need to distress the top capping a bit more!

 

Secondly the storm drain. This is a bit of a mixture of features from several prototypes along this section of the canal:

It will have a rather tatty hinged flap over the hole, slightly wedged open by a tree branch that has come down the storm drain and got wedged.

 

Both of these structures will be ideal spots for seagulls to perch, hence why I have also been preparing some gulls.

[Mol_PMB]

The layout board itself has seen the final hard-surfacing of the canal bank completed and will hopefully dry off in the next couple of days.

The culverted brook fits at the near end, and the storm drain is further along beyond the bank slip. At the far end there will be steps down to a ferry jetty, but I haven't built that yet.

 

I have also put a similar surface on the headshunt/trials board. This will be the short-term headshunt for the layout, and will eventually be replaced by a sector plate. In the mean time it is a good place to practice ballasting, static grass etc.

 

Next major tasks (once all the brown gunge is set) are:

• finish wiring up the point motors and re-test
• fit cosmetic fishplates to the track
• paint the track (not sure just yet how to approach this)
• ballasting
• static grass trials
• paint and detail the structures and fit them

 

[Sandhole]

[Sandhole]

Sorry for the dodgy quality for these shots.

 

[Sandhole]