MarkSG Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I was idly browsing through Hattons' pre-owned listings earlier (no particular reason, just on the offchance that there might be something which leapt off the screen and yelled "buy me"), and I was intrigued to see the difference that the quality of the box makes to the advertised price. For example, two Hornby J15s. Both in BR early livery. No difference in the condition of the models themselves. So, near enough identical in terms of appeal to someone who wants one for their layout. Prices?... "Good" box: £80. "Very good" box: £90. That's a tenner more for having your cardboard in slightly better nick! Further down the page, a matching pair of Mainline J72s. Again, identical livery (BR plain black). This time, there is a difference in condition of both the model and the box. One is a non-runner, but has a "Fair" box. The other runs, but has a replacement box. The price? Both at £28. The better box on the non-runner makes up for it not running. Now, I'm not criticising Hattons here. They know the prices their customers will pay, and set them accordingly. But it does make me wish they'd offer an option to filter pre-owned products by the box quality. Because I'd set it to "Completely knackered box" (or "no box"), as those are the bargains I'd be hunting! (It also made me think twice about what I do with the boxes of my stock. I don't thow the boxes away, because the boxes make it much easier if you ever need to transport models or put them into storage. But I don't make any particular effort to keep the boxes in good quality. Maybe I ought to, just in case I ever want to sell any of the stuff.) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Always been the case. Think about it. Which model has been looked after? The one with the perfect box or the one that looks like it's been kicked about the yard or stored in the shed for forty years? Usually Hattons have a good idea with what is wrong with them. The J72 will probably just need new brushes or something. Usually they sell regardless. Even a good J72 body goes for about £20. People still want them to put on etched chassis or other projects. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I belong to the 'don't give a monkey's about the box' camp! The difference between a modeller and a collector? 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: I belong to the 'don't give a monkey's about the box' camp! The difference between a modeller and a collector? Is that why modellers always complain that the finished kit won't fit in the box? Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Speaking as an unashamed collector and runner of ‘old stuff’, there does seem to be at least some correlation between the condition of the box and the condition of its contents. A very good box on an old model strongly suggests light/no use, or at least a careful adult owner. Not always so, but my only ‘near pristine box’ job is a c1937 loco, which looks as if it suffered easily-fixable mechanism damage very early in its life, and never got used again. I bought it at well under ‘going price’ for a working one, and it took about an hour to fix. The condition of the loco is ‘box fresh’ at 80+yo. TBH, it is hard to find really ‘good nick’ things over c50yo that aren’t boxed, although I have found a couple, for which I bought or made nice, posh new boxes! Whether plastic locos, wrapped in plastic, in styrene pods will do quite as well, I wonder - there is a lot of chemistry going on in those sealed spaces! Edited February 11, 2021 by Nearholmer 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSG Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Think about it. Which model has been looked after? The one with the perfect box or the one that looks like it's been kicked about the yard or stored in the shed for forty years? I don't think you can really tell the difference based on the box. The one with the perfect box might have had years of service on a train set with the box put carefully away in the cupboard until the owner decided to sell the model. The one with a damaged box might have been an Christmas present that hardly ever came out of the box because it didn't fit the owner's layout, so it kicked around the back of his storage case until he dcided that he might as well flog it if he wasn't going to use it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVREB05 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 All my boxes go in the bin, make new storage so complete trains stored together. Pull out one tray get a complete train, rather than open lots of boxes taking longer for the same result. Then where are all the boxes while trains are running, plus all the handling getting out and putting back, wrapping tissue round everything, just open a tray and play. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, DAVREB05 said: All my boxes go in the bin, make new storage so complete trains stored together. Pull out one tray get a complete train, rather than open lots of boxes taking longer for the same result. Then where are all the boxes while trains are running, plus all the handling getting out and putting back, wrapping tissue round everything, just open a tray and play. Plus, I think I can say honestly that selling my trains - box or no box - is not an issue. That task will be an issue for my executors, some day in the future. I expect I'll be too busy building a new layout on my cloud, to worry about my earthly models! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2021 2 hours ago, DAVREB05 said: All my boxes go in the bin, make new storage so complete trains stored together. Pull out one tray get a complete train, rather than open lots of boxes taking longer for the same result. Then where are all the boxes while trains are running, plus all the handling getting out and putting back, wrapping tissue round everything, just open a tray and play. Maybe you havent seen the prices you can get for empty model railway boxes on ebay.... 1 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: Plus, I think I can say honestly that selling my trains - box or no box - is not an issue. That task will be an issue for my executors, some day in the future. I expect I'll be too busy building a new layout on my cloud, to worry about my earthly models! You mean you can't take them with you ??? 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Just now, Michael Hodgson said: You mean you can't take them with you ??? Toying with the idea of 'grave goods'! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Avid collectors will need large pyramids. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=he+who+dies+with+the+most+trains+wins&docid=607999930500448979&mid=F7A286A5B22414362A26F7A286A5B22414362A26&view=detail&FORM=VIRE Edited February 11, 2021 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said: Toying with the idea of 'grave goods'! Like a Dean Goods - but more serious! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 The box we end up in will be "Mint" but the contents will be "Non Runner"! 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: You mean you can't take them with you ??? I'm not going, then... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 As a long time student and occasional buyer of Hattons pre-owned goods, I'm not convinced that box condition is much of a factor in their sometimes wildly variant pricing for more or less the same model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, The Johnster said: I'm not going, then... The Ghost of Motley Junction!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Is squatting on a rock in a very damp cave, cuddling an early Hornby-Dublo tank engine, while whispering "My Precious!!", for eternity, an allowable alternative? 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jollysmart Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2021 This theme runs to Ebay, where we can see boxes "in good/excellent" condition with asking prices close to those of a complete item that fits inside without a box. It also seems to be popular to break the item into box, chassis, body, fittings pack and then the combined asking price is well over double that of buying a good, complete example. I have found that I can't run the boxes on my layout so they are of no use to me once opened and the contents taken out. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I only keep loco boxes, box them up in bigger boxes up in the loft. Everything else gets recycled. Not that I sell anything, I think original good conditioned boxed locos will be easier to sell in the future (if we have one !!). I won't pay extra for boxes when buying second hand though. Brit15 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 12, 2021 A Toyfair dealer once apologised that he didn't have a box for the loco I was buying. He did like my comment :"They don't run very well in boxes" Regards, John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, jollysmart said: It also seems to be popular to break the item into box, chassis, body, fittings pack and then the combined asking price is well over double that of buying a good, complete example. Yeah, well you've got to pay extra for the labour of taking them out of the box and dismantling, plus the higher ebay fees for selling four items instead of one. Life's a bitch innit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold jollysmart Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: Yeah, well you've got to pay extra for the labour of taking them out of the box and dismantling, plus the higher ebay fees for selling four items instead of one. Life's a bitch innit. Not really, I don't buy any of them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, 33C said: The box we end up in will be "Mint" but the contents will be "Non Runner"! Well "Weathered", rather "Play worn" - but very "Rare"! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 12, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) I keep my boxes, on top of a wardrobe, a practice of which the wisdom was bourne out some 4 years ago when my landlord refurbished the flat. The railway had to come down, and stock went back into it's boxes where it was much better protected and more easily stored away for the duration, some two months when I occupied the flat opposite. As for buying second hand, I am a bit cynical (not a bad starting point when you are buying second hand) and regard the availability of a box as sales technique. I would prefer to buy stock without boxes and am completely unimpressed by the claim that a box is provided and is in good condition. Particularly from a dealer, it is unlikely to be the same box the model came out of the factory in and is a deliberate distraction from the condition of the model, which I thus regard as suspect. The fact that, other things being equal, unboxed items are usually cheaper than boxed ones in similar condition, is something I regard as a bonus and a display of honesty. Descriptions such as 'rare' 'classic', 'much sought after', and so on leave me cold and are a deterrent to buying that item. 'Mint in box' is another one, the impression intended is that the item has never been taken out of the box and is thus in as new condition; the safest approach to this is to assume that you are being lied to, and that someone intends to create an impression, even if you give the vendor the benefit of the doubt and accept that he believes it to be true. As the boxes are not factory sealed, it is impossible to verify the statement but I read much into the motives of a person would make it, and even if they were factory sealed, I'd assume a new fake seal had been put on. Caveat Emptor. Edited February 12, 2021 by The Johnster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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