Seaside & Holiday Island Narrow Gauge

[cp409067]

*

It was the work done by women during the Great War that resulted in the shorter skirts (as in the photograph) rather than the full length type.

 

If operation after the conflict was by IC means, would the conduit (as seen) have necessarily been removed?

 

I am therefore inclined to suggest that the photograph is from shortly after the War - perhaps the early 1920s.

 

 

CP

[whart57]

10 hours ago, cp409067 said:

*

It was the work done by women during the Great War that resulted in the shorter skirts (as in the photograph) rather than the full length type.

 

If operation after the conflict was by IC means, would the conduit (as seen) have necessarily been removed?

 

I am therefore inclined to suggest that the photograph is from shortly after the War - perhaps the early 1920s.

 

 

CP

 

The conduit was certainly removed at some stage. Post war pictures (and my memory) show just the rails. There are some inter-war pictures of the battery powered tram around but I haven't managed to find any in the last few days.

 

As for the skirts, you are probably right that skirt lengths for women became shorter during the Great War. However if you put the film The Railway Children in mind then the attire of Roberta - played by Jenny Agutter - is of a similar style. The book was written in 1905 and the film is similarly set in Edwardian times. Roberta is supposedly 17, Agutter's age at the time of filming, so it would seem that teenage girls were already wearing shorter skirts in a transition from children's clothes to full adult fashion. A fashion site I looked at suggested that this was already happening in the 1880s.

[Nearholmer]

 

Looks like a teenager.

 

I’m pretty sure that younger women who worked, both in manual and non-manual jobs, were wearing hemlines above the ankle well before WW1, and that the hem rose up the calf during WW1.

 

I found a good photo of a line-up of Lyon’s Nippy’s showing the evolution of their uniform, and one was clearly from the “a few inches above the ankle” period, but none of them were dated!

 

This very stylish outfit is the Metropolitan Railway’s Guards’ uniform from during WW1, which I reckon was modelled on military ambulance crew uniform.

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Nearholmer

[009 micro modeller]

12 hours ago, cp409067 said:

If operation after the conflict was by IC means, would the conduit (as seen) have necessarily been removed?

The photo on page 20 of the Oakwood Press book definitely shows the later Hibberd battery car working on track that has no conduit. The book also specifically mentions that the conduit was removed during the First World War, prompting the use of internal combustion and battery operation afterwards.

Edited May 14, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[whart57]

An exhibition coming soon in Herne Bay. It's booked to run for two months from 21 May

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/railwaysofhernebay/permalink/5495084773858977/

[whart57]

I have a copy of the Oakwood Press booklet now. In it I read that someone claimed to have measured the rail gauge as 3' 4½". However it also says - and backs it up with a photograph that the tramway used the track laid down for the rail crane used in construction. It strikes me as unlikely a manufacturer of industrial plant would choose a strange gauge for its product but if the measurement displaced the half inch the wrong side of the 4" then it would be 3' 3½", or pretty much one metre. So would it be likely that the Herne Bay Pier tramway was actually meter gauge?

[phil_sutters]

On 13/05/2022 at 14:20, whart57 said:

 

Judging by the grip she has on her boater hat I doubt that would be a practical uniform for someone working on a line that is out at sea the whole time. In any case conduit operation was before WW1, when the tramway resumed after the wartime closure it apparently tried internal combustion tractors first before settling on battery power. Women as tram conductors didn't happen until WW1 took away all the young men.

 

My guesses are:

 

1.  She is the photographer's girlfriend

2. (more likely) She was the best looking young lady to pass by when the photographer had the shot set up

 

 

Boaters, especially for women seem to have been very much an Edwardian fashion. My family albums have a couple of photos of my Great Grandmother and other family members wearing boaters in 1901 and 1905. As a family of high class tailors, they were always turned out in the fashions of the day - albeit in Herefordshire. That said, they dressed the country house set, who spent time in London and cities abroad. In the other photo which has been dated to 1910 there are both men and women wearing boaters, although most of the women's hats had developed into wider-brimmed models.

The procession seems to have a funereal air about it. The bass drum is draped in black and the escorting constables seem to be slow marching, with their arms straight down. 1910 was the year Edward VII died, so it may have been the reason for the procession.

[whart57]

3 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

The procession seems to have a funereal air about it. The bass drum is draped in black and the escorting constables seem to be slow marching, with their arms straight down. 1910 was the year Edward VII died, so it may have been the reason for the procession.

 

 

 

Given the turn out I'd guess it was something to do with the death of Edward VII.

[009 micro modeller]

19 hours ago, whart57 said:

I have a copy of the Oakwood Press booklet now. In it I read that someone claimed to have measured the rail gauge as 3' 4½". However it also says - and backs it up with a photograph that the tramway used the track laid down for the rail crane used in construction. It strikes me as unlikely a manufacturer of industrial plant would choose a strange gauge for its product but if the measurement displaced the half inch the wrong side of the 4" then it would be 3' 3½", or pretty much one metre. So would it be likely that the Herne Bay Pier tramway was actually meter gauge?

Or alternatively 3’ 6”, as used by several other tramways and pier railways. As you say, it’s unlikely that they would purposely choose an odd gauge, and there’s nothing in the photos to suggest that an odd gauge was necessary because of some detail of the pier’s construction (if anything, you’d expect them to have chosen a wider gauge to give the crane extra stability).

 

Another, although perhaps less likely, explanation is a specified gauge of 3’ 6” but measured from rail centre to centre by those installing the track, giving the unusual 3’ 4 1/2” as the true gauge. I know this affected several lines but this seems a bit late in the nineteenth century for an experienced contractor to be doing this without realising how it could create problems.

[Nearholmer]

Either metre or 3’ 6” seems likely, but it is just possible that it ended-up with a weird gauge due to the underlying structure of the pier. Rails were probably clipped direct to structural members running the length of the pier, and if they were at 3’ 6” centres across the pier, and the track was centred on the beam, which would be logical for load-bearing purposes, bingo, a strange gauge results.

[009 micro modeller]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Either metre or 3’ 6” seems likely, but it is just possible that it ended-up with a weird gauge due to the underlying structure of the pier. Rails were probably clipped direct to structural members running the length of the pier, and if they were at 3’ 6” centres across the pier, and the track was centred on the beam, which would be logical for load-bearing purposes, bingo, a strange gauge results.

Might also explain the extreme off-centre position of the conduit, if that was similarly attached to the underlying structure.

[papagolfjuliet]

Just found this photo of the pre-rebuild Jaywick Sentinel at New Brighton. 'Nulli Secundus.' What a splendid name. 

[whart57]

This picture of me and my brother on Herne Bay pier c1960 shows that the tramway groove had been filled with pitch and the left hand rail had been removed when the planking on that side had been renewed.

 

[Nearholmer]

Crikey, coincidence that this should revive now, while I’m here:

 

Which I think is technically an island. I’m certainly on holiday at the seaside.

[Chris116]

I note that earlier in this thread there has been some talk about the Ruislip Lido railway which I paid a visit on 10th August when they had a two train service with one steam and one diesel in operation giving a 20 minute headway. The two trains were running using a simple token system with the trains passing at Eleanor's Loop and exchanging the tokens at that point. Both trains had ten coaches behind the loco and were well loaded.

 

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

8 hours ago, Chris116 said:

I note that earlier in this thread there has been some talk about the Ruislip Lido railway

Yes, although I don’t think I can really get away with claiming it’s a ‘seaside railway’.

 

What does the headboard on Mad Bess say?

[Chris116]

32 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

What does the headboard on Mad Bess say?

Sorry, I have just checked the other photos I took and none of them show the headboard.

[steve1]

The Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway (clue in the name) is celebrating its 75th anniversary.

 

http://www.cclr.co.uk

 

This was on show when we were there last Saturday. They had a Ratty steamer in service, presumably on loan.

 

steve

 

 

[Ben B]

59 minutes ago, steve1 said:

The Cleethorpes Coast Light Railway (clue in the name) is celebrating its 75th anniversary.

 

http://www.cclr.co.uk

 

This was on show when we were there last Saturday. They had a Ratty steamer in service, presumably on loan.

 

steve

 

 

 

Good grief, did they use every green  highlighter pen in Smiths to colour that? :)  It was in a rather more restrained maroon I think, last time I saw it

[papagolfjuliet]

The Ratty engine at Cleethorpes is "Bonnie Dundee" (they also have "Flower of the Forest" but that one isn't in service) which is on long term loan from Ravenglass and has been for some time, having been deemed too small for use on her home line and replaced there by "Whillan Beck."

[Tim Hall]

Rhyl Miniature Railway Gala. 24th September 2023. 4 Barnes Atlantics in action.

 

[Nearholmer]

This thread doesn’t twitch into life often these days, but now it has, one from the RH&DR, which feels pretty seasidey in places to me. This is last Saturday, when the gentleman in the cap treated a group of pals to a ride on a ‘special’ (many thanks again Paul).

 

 

The headboard is the original from Her Late Majesty’s coronation year, and on the other side it is also the the headboard for the “NUR AGM Hastings 1955” special, which I thought was an interesting contrast.

 

 

[Chris116]

The above post reminded me that I had not posted my October 2022 shots from a very enjoyable day on the RHDR with Talking of Trains.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Chris116
Spelling

[papagolfjuliet]

An eminently modellable photo of 'Count Louis' in action on the Fairbourne in 1931, during the brief period when the line was duel 15" and 18" gauge to accomodate the Regent's Polytechnic Stirling Single.

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant!

 

Good to see that people were having soggy summer sojourns in north wales back then too.