Fowler LMS Dock Tank 0-6-0

[k22009]

I've had an itch that needed scratching and so i thought it was about time to stop prevaricating and get on with it.

 

I've always admired the work others do in preparing the artwork for the etches in a kit so after finishing the GNR C1 scratch build i decided to draw up my own loco with a view to getting it etched. It would need to be something small that wasn't going to need acres of metalwork and cost a fortune, probably most importantly a prototype that i could easily get all of the detailing components for as i don't have a lathe or any machinery that would enable me to scratch build the parts, and something that was not in the RTR market to my knowledge, and as a big fan of the Crimson part of the country I perused the Engines of the LMS for a suitable victim.

Before long i had whittled it down to just a couple, and the winner was  as the title suggests the Fowler Dock Tank. Reasonably straightforward bodywork but with the added challenge of Walschaerts valve gear all in a fairly small package with a tiny wheelbase.

 

After a couple of days at the computer i had the basic drawing laid out and a lot of the parts individually developed with tags and in there own frames. A phone call to PPD and the very helpful staff got me onto the right tracks with regard tag sizes, spacing, use of fills to show which parts were to be half etched, full etch or no etch, and a fair few other things i'd not considered that are affected by the process itself like minimum dimensions from holes to etch edges. Most of which is explained on the website, I also took a considerable amount of guidance from this forum which has been invaluable.

 

Drawing sent off, quote received and an order placed and paid for, a few weeks later i have received my very first etches.

 

 

As i was uncertain how it would turn out and could have been a total waste of money i had decided to just use nickel silver for the whole thing, which i must admit i prefer to use anyway and it had all fit nicely onto about 75% of an A4 size sheet.

 

I'm sure there will be lots of mistakes but know i just need to get on and build it.

 

Dave 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[k22009]

I've made a start with the chassis, i thought i had some Gibson wheels but i must have used them elsewhere, however i have a  set of 16mm Romfords which will be fine. I've decided to make this a rigid chassis but if all goes well and i make another i will add some compensation beams to the etch and go that route. For now though it was just a matter of reaming the holes to suit bearings.

I like to make the frames as wide as i can so the spacers are 12mm across making it 12.8mm outside the frames hence why i've put the face of the bearings on the inside, the outer faces can then be filed flush to the frames, however with such a small wheelbase there's no issue with restricting side play except at the front axle. 

 

 

 

 

I've added the brake hangers, shoes , pull rods etc and i have also added the sandboxes/pipes, the great thing with using Romfords/Markits you can add add one to an axle and use it as a template for setting out all of the smaller parts. I had only added the rear sandboxes onto the etch so in this instance i've made the front ones from some scrap etch and brass channel shaped to suit but i may add these also to the etch. The rear sandboxes have the filler cap located at an angle below footplate level so i've cut a piece of bar at 45 degrees and soldered it to the side.

 

 

 

 

 

In hindsight i could have utilized the rear spacer to mount a brake cylinder onto, there's plenty of room rather than having a vertical leg and extended it horizontally, but maybe next time.

 

Footplate next.

 

Dave

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by k22009

[Michael Delamar]

I’d be interested in one of these if you decide to sell any.

[k22009]

2 hours ago, Michael Delamar said:

I’d be interested in one of these if you decide to sell any.

 

Hi Michael, even at this stage i can see the etch would need some minor revisions where i've not shown the hatch correctly and holes have consequently not been etched properly, i'm sure once the build progresses there will be other things to add and revise too, so if all goes well and there are no major stumbling blocks that i've not thought of and there are a few people interested after it's substantially completed i will be more than happy to offer them for sale.

 

Dave 

[Beechnut]

3 hours ago, Michael Delamar said:

I’d be interested in one of these if you decide to sell any.

Michael, there’s always the K’s kit

 

 

[Beechnut]

2 hours ago, k22009 said:

 

Hi Michael, even at this stage i can see the etch would need some minor revisions where i've not shown the hatch correctly and holes have consequently not been etched properly, i'm sure once the build progresses there will be other things to add and revise too, so if all goes well and there are no major stumbling blocks that i've not thought of and there are a few people interested after it's substantially completed i will be more than happy to offer them for sale.

 

Dave 

Dave, you can put my name down for one too when you get it sorted.

 

Brendan

[k22009]

On 21/03/2021 at 19:12, Beechnut said:

Dave, you can put my name down for one too when you get it sorted.

 

Brendan

 

Will do Brendan.

 

I've assembled a bit more this afternoon, the footplate is half etched with rivet details and although it's basically 0.2mm thick then it's reasonably rigid. First of all i checked the positioning of the holes in the spacers on the chassis with those on the footplate, and to my delight they lined up. There are 2 half etched rebates for 12BA nuts, i will change this to just the rear one as the smokebox base needs to sit down onto the footplate and the raised pattern lifts it up slightly. The buffer beam front and rear are in 2 pieces and need sweating together, they can be simply folded over rather than cutting them out individually they line up perfectly when folded over.

 

With the front buffer beam attached leaving the footplate slightly proud at the front the valances can be added flush to the edges and finally the rear beam which again should leave the footplate slightly overhanging the rear. 

 

 

The front cab has a cut out in it as the high level load hauler gearbox protrudes into this area by about 1.5mm so i have provided a rear portion to a cast back head to fill this area in, this can be aligned with rods left loose and not attached. 

 

 

The cab rear, floor, inner bunker and rear window grilles were all assembled, i have provided tabs on the bottom of both the rear and front cab, this positions the cab on the footplate. the footplate after folding down was a little wide so a small amount was removed with a file, some lead could be added at this stage to the gap in the bunker or left and fitted to the tanks and rear bunker, which is where i think i will add it on this model. The grilles fit into half etched rebates, they are a little fragile but i think it's best adding them know while access is easy.

 

 

 

I have a dilemma now, the cab sides are etched with the cab roof, however if i add it all now access to the interior will be very limited. So i will probably cut the roof at the gutters and this can then be glued in position at the end after painting. I'll think about it overnight first though.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[Gordon A]

I would also like a kit / set of etches please.

 

Gordon Ashton

Bristol

[Barclay]

Great choice of loco!

I have a K's kit salted away but this looks so much nicer. Did you have a particular source of bits, such as boiler fittings, in mind?

[k22009]

44 minutes ago, Barclay said:

Great choice of loco!

I have a K's kit salted away but this looks so much nicer. Did you have a particular source of bits, such as boiler fittings, in mind?

 

Most of the parts seem to be common with Jintys, smokebox door, chimney, dome, safety valves, back head, Colin at Alan Gibson would be my first choice. 247 may have something suitable also. I have a collection of parts from my box of spares so i may try an make some moulds from them, that would also be a new challenge, i'll see how things progress. Other bits like the reversing lever i will use the one on the Mainly trains loco detailing fret. Brake standard is easy to make from tube and wire. The only items i'm not really sure about are the oval tank fillers, again i have a pair but without photos it's difficult to know where best to procure them from.

 

Dave

[Marshall5]

Sorry but the Jinty boiler was much larger in diameter so I doubt that any of the fittings listed above would be suitable.

Ray.

[k22009]

1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

Sorry but the Jinty boiler was much larger in diameter so I doubt that any of the fittings listed above would be suitable.

Ray.

 

Thanks, i'm not sure from which models the parts i have accumulated were originally intended, the best test will be once i've got the boiler and smokeboxes rolled to see what the fit is like. Dimensionally they appear to be there or there about. 

[Marshall5]

15 minutes ago, k22009 said:

 

Thanks, i'm not sure from which models the parts i have accumulated were originally intended, the best test will be once i've got the boiler and smokeboxes rolled to see what the fit is like. Dimensionally they appear to be there or there about. 

I owe you an apology.  Having now looked at the drawings the barrel length and diameter are, actually. the same but the firebox is 6" wider on the Jinty.  'Shows I shouldn't rely on my memory!!

Cheers,

Ray.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Marshall5

[Compound2632]

21 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

I owe you an apology.  Having now looked at the drawings the barrel length and diameter are, actually. the same but the firebox is 6" wider on the Jinty.

 

Longer, surely? 

[Marshall5]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Longer, surely? 

The diagram I referred to wasn't clear but your post caused me to look for a different diagram which is much clearer... 4' 11 15/16" x 4' 0 1/2" so, yes, you are correct, 6" longer not wider on the Jinty.

Cheers,

Ray.

[k22009]

I decided to cut the roof at the gutters to leave me access for the cab interior, i added a small strip of scrap etch under the lip so that i have something to glue to. I'll also add a small curved piece to the top edges of the cab front and rear for that purpose. 

 

 

The bunker sides have closure strips to attach to the inside that will butt up to the cab sides.

 

 

The bunker rear can be folded to the profiles of the sides and all soldered into an assembly along with the bunker beading and coal guards. The coal guards do not have the closing strip next to the cab so i will add this to the revised etches. When soldering the assembly to the cab i remembered to raise the bunker rear slightly as there are tabs under the cab rear and front so the bottom edges are all flush. The beading continues past the end and there is a hole there so that the cab handrails can be fitted into these.

 

 

 

Tanks next.

 

Dave

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[Adam]

That's looking very promising. Forgive my ignorance of the real thing, but wouldn't the backhead be the same shape as the firebox visible on the outside? That's certainly true of the Jinty and I assume that this would have been the same? Unless I've missed something somewhere and that's meant to sit inside a casting?

 

Adam

[k22009]

55 minutes ago, Adam said:

That's looking very promising. Forgive my ignorance of the real thing, but wouldn't the backhead be the same shape as the firebox visible on the outside? That's certainly true of the Jinty and I assume that this would have been the same? Unless I've missed something somewhere and that's meant to sit inside a casting?

 

Adam

 

Hi Adam the casting i have has a lip on the back and yes it fits over. I've not seen any photos of the inside but assume as you say it is the shape of the belpaire.

 

Dave 

[Daddyman]

Good to find you again - I lost track of you after the C1.

 

I've just begun the long process of teaching myself to etch, and what you've achieved is very impressive. What programme do you use? 

Are you aware of this? 

https://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/index.php/spring-2021-etching-room/

 

You seem to suggest N/S was cheaper than brass; can I ask if the price difference was very large? - as I find (N/S) a pain to bend, especially when half-etched. 

[k22009]

3 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Good to find you again - I lost track of you after the C1.

 

I've just begun the long process of teaching myself to etch, and what you've achieved is very impressive. What programme do you use? 

Are you aware of this? 

https://www.missendenrailwaymodellers.org.uk/index.php/spring-2021-etching-room/

 

You seem to suggest N/S was cheaper than brass; can I ask if the price difference was very large? - as I find (N/S) a pain to bend, especially when half-etched. 

 

Hi David, yes i've been following Chas's exploits and picking up a few tips in the process. 

I use Draftsight for my work which is an Autocad type programme, Autocad is something i've lived with since CAD became the norm when i worked in Canada in the late 80s. The uncertainties i had were down to what the etching companies required and what the limitations of the etching process meant in terms of edge distances to holes and edges from half or full etched parts. I think until you actually try one out you can never be certain. With this i tried to incorporate all of the potential problems i could think of to iron them out in my head, most worked ok. 

The only reason i went with nickel silver is i find it a little stiffer and this lends it to being more forgiving in the half etched part stability, yes rolling can be more difficult but i've never really struggled with the GW rolling mill i have. I would have preferred to have had half of it etched nickel silver, half in brass but the cost is in the artwork for each etch so having it all on one sheet reduces this cost. Brass i believe is slightly cheaper than nickel silver. If i had different chassis and bodies to work on i would probably go down the route of all the frames, spacers, valve gear etc being nickel silver and the bodywork brass as you see in a fair few kits. 

This was only ever originally intended for my use as there was nothing really available except i believe the Mercian etched kit but it seems there may be a few people interested in trying one also so i may need to do more work on the artwork to cater for other gauges etc.

 

Dave

Edited March 24, 2021 by k22009
grammar

[Phil Parker]

On 21/03/2021 at 19:53, k22009 said:

 

Will do Brendan.

 

I've assembled a bit more this afternoon, the footplate is half etched with rivet details and although it's basically 0.2mm thick then it's reasonably rigid. First of all i checked the positioning of the holes in the spacers on the chassis with those on the footplate, and to my delight they lined up. There are 2 half etched rebates for 12BA nuts, i will change this to just the rear one as the smokebox base needs to sit down onto the footplate and the raised pattern lifts it up slightly. The buffer beam front and rear are in 2 pieces and need sweating together, they can be simply folded over rather than cutting them out individually they line up perfectly when folded over.

 

With the front buffer beam attached leaving the footplate slightly proud at the front the valances can be added flush to the edges and finally the rear beam which again should leave the footplate slightly overhanging the rear. 

 

 

The front cab has a cut out in it as the high level load hauler gearbox protrudes into this area by about 1.5mm so i have provided a rear portion to a cast back head to fill this area in, this can be aligned with rods left loose and not attached. 

 

 

The cab rear, floor, inner bunker and rear window grilles were all assembled, i have provided tabs on the bottom of both the rear and front cab, this positions the cab on the footplate. the footplate after folding down was a little wide so a small amount was removed with a file, some lead could be added at this stage to the gap in the bunker or left and fitted to the tanks and rear bunker, which is where i think i will add it on this model. The grilles fit into half etched rebates, they are a little fragile but i think it's best adding them know while access is easy.

 

 

 

I have a dilemma now, the cab sides are etched with the cab roof, however if i add it all now access to the interior will be very limited. So i will probably cut the roof at the gutters and this can then be glued in position at the end after painting. I'll think about it overnight first though.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

The Mercian etched kit tries this, the idea being you can unclip the middle section. I've never made it work and just replaced the thing with a wrapper each time I've built the kit. I'd accept limited access to the can interior as with a couple of figures in there, you can barely see inside anyway.

 

 

[k22009]

The tank sides are a fold up assembly with a rebate for the tank top, the beading was added prior to the tank tops being soldered in place as this can be soldered then from the inside. The undercut which is presumably there to allow access to the reversing mechanism is formed around a small bar.

 

 

I added the half etched tank access cover by soldering through a hole underneath before adding the inner sides. The front hole marks the position of the tank fillers There is a piece which is tabbed and this spaces the 2 tanks and provides the boiler with a closure piece as the rest of the boiler bottom towards the cab is omitted to allow the motor and gearbox clearance.

 

 

This assembly is then fitted to the cab/bunker unit.

 

 

 

Boiler assembly next

 

Dave

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[k22009]

The boiler was rolled in the GW rolling mill, it's just at about the rolls limit for the diameter, however with the formers tacked into position it is an easy job to solder the bottom seam. I should have made an extra former at the rear of the full boiler section as it tries to distort out of shape slightly so i tacked a small piece of etch top to bottom to stop it.

 

 

The firebox is formed using the formers as a guide bending the corners around a small bar, the rear former has 2 rods attached to it that will fit into the corresponding ones in the cab front, this can then allow the boiler unit to be removable. The front of the firebox is made from 3 formers which are filed to shape before attaching to the boiler piece there is a half etched guide with the boiler section so that it makes positioning together easier.

 

 

 

The smoke box is half etched with rivets so this rolls much easier and again using front and rear formers to complete and attach to the boiler unit. There is a captive nut on the smokebox bottom which will utilize the fixing through the chassis spacer.  I noticed after taking the photo that the stiffener at the bottom of the smokebox was slightly at an angle but that has been adjusted now.  

 

 

 

There is a rivetted strip on the etch which is for the bottom of the tanks and bunker, i'll add this before fitting the cab/tank assembly to the footplate.

 

Dave 

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[k22009]

With the majority of the body assemblies together i returned to getting the cylinders and valve gear assembled. The cylinders are a fold up item with the slide bars passing through both ends to give more rigidity, i have also added a tube for the crosshead piston to slide into which also goes through both ends, finishes flush with the front but protrudes slightly at the rear. 

The crossheads are also on the etch they need a 0.9mm or 1.0mm rod for the piston, they are a bit fiddly but came out better than i'd expected. I'll cut the pistons to length once i can check it against the required travel.

 

 

 

The valve guide rear and front are a sandwich of 3 laminated parts, the cylinder  front and rear covers have also been added. The front cover should be thicker so i'll add an additional layer onto the revised etch. The wrappers are always tricky to solder on without de soldering everything else but you just need to pre form the shape and get in fairly quickly with a couple of dabs of solder where you can get access, i always try from the inside if possible.

 

 

The motion bracket is also a laminated piece but as it is very close to the leading drivers there is a reduced thickness section where there may be conflict either side of the frames. Once soldered to the slide bars this will form a single unit.

 

 

The Walschaerts is very small, i've used dress making brass pins with the heads reduced in size to attach it all together. Even with the heads reduced they still look too big but with much of the valve gear being only 1.0mm or less across i'm not sure what else to use. The valve rod cover (not sure what else to call it) is at the top right and top left, this will need attaching to the cylinder rear at the top, but this i'll do once the valve gear is attached. The lifting arm will pass through a small hole in the footplate (hopefully), here the reversing lever and rod will sit under the tank cut outs, they will not be connected together though to enable the footplate and chassis to be removable. The radius rod connects to the combination lever below the valve rod in this instance,  i'll connect the radius rod to the center hole in the expansion link.

 

 

Dave

Edited April 1, 2022 by k22009

[k22009]

I've added the reversing lever and cross shaft to the footplate. This will not connect to the lifting arm as per the previous post but will line up once the chassis is attached.

 

 

 

Before soldering the cab/tank assembly to the footplate i attended to several things that needed doing before access was lost. A good dollop of lead weight was added into the side tanks and the bunker to aid traction, the high level loadhauler gearbox was made up and a Mitsumi motor attached and tested. I'll leave the boiler as being removable however.

 

 

With this all done i assembled the valve gear to the chassis. As i mentioned previously i think i needed to make the rivet/pin heads smaller they do look too healthy.

 

As the lifting arm is left unattached at the reversing shaft end, the combination lever/radius rod needed to be restrained at its junction during the piston rod cycle. It is restrained by the pin through the expansion die block/expansion link at the other end, so i decided to adapt the loose valve rod cover (which attaches flush with the top of the cylinder casing) and add a vertical flat to the rear edge with a hole so i could pin the joint for the radius rod and combination lever through this so stopping the whole assembly just floating around and potentially jamming up. This is obviously not prototypical but without pinning the lifting arm i couldn't think of a better way to do it. With the return crank set slightly towards the rear unusually the whole thing works ok. I have used an old set of Romfords on this and the crank throw is much larger than with Gibson wheels (approx 4mm against 2.6mm for Gibson wheels) which makes quite a difference to the travel etc.

 

 

 

I need to add pickups to one side now to test it, and after that, were on the home straight and i can start to add the detailing parts. I've mislaid the tank steps and lifting eyes that were on an etch inside the footplate, heaven knows where it's gone (the bin probably by mistake), so i made up some steps from brass 1 x 1 angle and added the front/rear handrails, lamp irons and coupling hooks.

 

Dave 

Edited March 6, 2023 by k22009