Grampus, Dumper and Conveyor / Hopper

[benblack5]

I've come across this very interesting image on the NYMR p-way website, showing a portion of a rake of grampus. With the end doors dropped to allow a dumper truck to run up and down the rake, presumably filling the rake up with spent ballast, from what appears to be a ballast cleaner / remover, loading the ballast into a hopper and then into the dumper. A couple of questions from this image:

 

1. Livery for the dumper and conveyor / hopper? They both appear to be in the same livery. Green body, yellow stripe and black wheels looks likely to me, but it is very hard to tell from a black and white image. Any thoughts / information would be welcome!
2. The ballast cleaner behind, any information on what this is likely to have been would be interesting.

 

I don't know the original source of the image or dates, but any further info on this could be good. Thanks for any help people can give!

 

https://www.nymr-pway.co.uk/2017/12/08/grampus-991840/

[Fat Controller]

Might I suggest 'crimson and cream'? The dumper seems to have a 'British Railways' emblem, of the 'lozenge' type on the side of the bucket. The Grampuses are WR examples. I've not seen wagons being loaded in this fashion; quite a sensible idea, as it looks as though only one track need be under possession.

[benblack5]

It could well be Crimson and Cream! I hadn't spotted the lozenge before, but that does give weight to the crimson. Could be quite a charming little thing in crimson.

 

[Trog]

Looks an absolutely dreadful way of working, the ballast cleaner is going to spend most of the shift waiting for the dumper. Only somewhat alleviated by the fact that the way the track has been lifted right out of the ballast suggesting that only a very shallow reballast is being done, hence reducing the output of spoil. I suspect that they were back in a couple of years time to do it properly. 

[iands]

The Dumper is actually green and white. If you can, get hold of a copy of Behind the Scenes Volume 2 (Early On-Track Machines) DVD (Fastline/TeleRail). The last video on this DVD is about Simon Platform & Gradall machines. It shows the Gradall, Dumper and Grampus to good effect. On the face of it, as Trog says, there could be a bit of a wait for the dumper to return each time, but watch the video and you'll that this is not the case. The Gradall machine just keeps working filling the hopper in the end wagon and the dumper just keeps running backward and forward emptying the hopper. There is another very short clip of the dumper in use in the same way in conjunction with a trenching machine (same DVD), but you don't see much detail of the operations as with the Gradall machine video.

 

Hope this helps.

[Wickham Green too]

12 minutes ago, Trog said:

......... the way the track has been lifted right out of the ballast suggesting that only a very shallow reballast is being done,.......

That may be an illusion - the way the track curves down at the left hand side suggests ( to me ) that the far track is sitting far lower than the near one - so quite a depth of ballast has been removed.

[benblack5]

19 minutes ago, iands said:

The Dumper is actually green and white. If you can, get hold of a copy of Behind the Scenes Volume 2 (Early On-Track Machines) DVD (Fastline/TeleRail). The last video on this DVD is about Simon Platform & Gradall machines. It shows the Gradall, Dumper and Grampus to good effect. On the face of it, as Trog says, there could be a bit of a wait for the dumper to return each time, but watch the video and you'll that this is not the case. The Gradall machine just keeps working filling the hopper in the end wagon and the dumper just keeps running backward and forward emptying the hopper. There is another very short clip of the dumper in use in the same way in conjunction with a trenching machine (same DVD), but you don't see much detail of the operations as with the Gradall machine video.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks Ian. A copy of Behind the Scenes Volume 2 (Early On-Track Machines) is now on order! Much appreciated!

[jonhall]

not quite the same train but pretty similar 

 

 

 

Jon

[iands]

24 minutes ago, jonhall said:

not quite the same train but pretty similar 

 

 

 

Jon

That appears to be the same trenching machine.

[Mark Saunders]

That is why the Grampus was designed with removable end panels and baskets underneath to store them plus the drop end plank to allow machines to drive through the train!

[ColinK]

Someone has to make a model of that - looks like some kind of bogie wagon with a small Hunslet shunter stuck on one end.

[HGT1972]

The trencher is the Hunslet machine, developed from 1959 and into service in 1962, numbered DB965168 (later DR85001), and was purpose built, despite appearing to be on an old well wagon. The rather handsome cab has a very 'locomotive' look to it but it actually moved itself along using a cable winch powered by the Leyland engine under the hood. It ended it's days at Radyr in the 1990s although it was originally based on the ER and then on the SR (where it worked with an old BR gunpowder van as a tool van for a while!).

 

It did work with one of the Grampus-based spoil handing systems in the early years at least.

 

Hywel

[hmrspaul]

This is the trencher /DB965168  became DR85001  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/trench

 

Paul

[benblack5]

2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

That is why the Grampus was designed with removable end panels and baskets underneath to store them plus the drop end plank to allow machines to drive through the train!

Yes I had read that was the reason for their design; though until now had not seen any evidence of them actually being used in this way. 

 

The trencher is very interesting, I might have to go at modelling that to go with this rake of grampus.

[dp123]

This does look (for a short time at least) a bit more fun than benignly watching countless MFS wagons automatically convey material forward on the ruthlessly efficient HOBC. 

[Trog]

On 29/03/2021 at 17:37, Wickham Green too said:

That may be an illusion - the way the track curves down at the left hand side suggests ( to me ) that the far track is sitting far lower than the near one - so quite a depth of ballast has been removed.

 

I was thinking that the cleaner if that is what is just out of shot to the left would be working towards the spoil train, that way the spoil wagons would be running on track that could have been packed to ensure it was reasonably stable and twist free. It was normal practice for a gang to go just ahead (You DO NOT want to have loads of track lifted in front of a of a cleaner in case of break down) of a working RM62 or RM74 ballast cleaner (1980's) and lift the track a couple of inches and or take the cant off. To give the ballast under the sleepers somewhere to go, hence making it easier for the cleaner to cut through, and to ensure that the cleaners screens were level to help even out the flow of the returned stone to the two return conveyors.

 

If the photo shows that method of working the track has been lifted right out of the ballast, and you would only do that if you were trying to minimise the depth the machine was cutting.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Trog
Wrong RM number it has been a long while.

[Wickham Green too]

I bow to your superior knowledge .......... but still think the far track is a lot lower than the near one as - from this angle - the sleepers appear to be nearly touching and, to the left hand side, there seems to be a very crisp ballast shoulder.

[Trog]

The fact that the Grampus has its handbrake on suggests a not very mobile process.

 

The spoil appears to be very fine and it is interesting that the adjacent road also appears to need ballast. As the plant all looks clean and nicely painted I wonder if we are looking at a test run with new equipment in some sidings somewhere. As why else muck about with complicated single line equipment when you have an adjacent road available and could do things the easy way. If it is a test run with new kit that might also explain why someone was interested enough to point a camera at it.

[Mark Saunders]

This is judging yesterday by today’s practice and just because the handbrake is on does not mean the train is not moving and could be used to control the movement to prevent runaway!

This was the practice on many inclines where the idea was to drag the train down rather than let the load push the train and runaway!

[101]

24 minutes ago, Trog said:

The fact that the Grampus has its handbrake on suggests a not very mobile process

 

Not sure in which direction the train is going, though I would presume its propelling. The wagon would have its brake pinned down to keep the wagons buffered up (or couplings taut if it is going the other way) the last thing you would want on a train like that is everything bouncing backwards and forwards - the driver wouldn't want to touch the train brake on a move like that - especially when someone is standing on the side of the wagon!