Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

I don't have the circuit boards under the railway, but I too thought DCC was going to be 2 wires and that was it.... My wiring has grown like topsy - its everywhere!

 

However I have taken a different route with regard to splitting my power consumption and chose old fashioned analogue for point control. Even the platform lights and all my signals are on separate power controllers. My accessory BUS is only used to power the autofrogs on the points.

 

 I have separate power districts, protected by NCE circuit breakers.

 

I am hoping that my Gaugemaster Prodigy* continues to cope with my expanding fleet of sound locos. (*Ive just looked it up and see that its only 3.5amp)

 

Good luck Andy, I'm sure it will be fine at Helston.

 

Interesting that you use the accy bus for the frogs. When a loco bridges the main rails and the frog this will connect your main bus and accy bus together even though they are on different circuit breakers.

I use my accy to switch the points and let the point motors switch the main bus supply to the frogs via their built in changeover switches which is what the chap at DCC Concepts advised me to do.

regards

Andy

Edited January 27, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Neal Ball]

18 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Interesting that you use the accy bus for the frogs. When a loco bridges the main rails and the frog this will connect your main bus and accy bus together even though they are on different circuit breakers.

I use my accy to switch the points and let the point motors switch the main bus supply to the frogs via their built in changeover switches which is what the chap at DCC Concepts advised me to do.

regards

Andy

Sorry Andy, I should have explained clearer. The accessory bus does not have a circuit breaker.

 

Point control is through a Gaugemaster control unit with no connection to the DCC system. Similarly all the platform lights and signals are also powered independently.

 

My circuit breakers are on 4 areas of the railway: Fiddle yard; main line; station; engine and goods yards.

[Andy Keane]

3 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Sorry Andy, I should have explained clearer. The accessory bus does not have a circuit breaker.

 

Point control is through a Gaugemaster control unit with no connection to the DCC system. Similarly all the platform lights and signals are also powered independently.

 

My circuit breakers are on 4 areas of the railway: Fiddle yard; main line; station; engine and goods yards.

but your main track does, so you will be linking a circuit breaker protected supply to a non circuit breaker protected supply every time you cross a point - I would avoid that myself

Andy

[Neal Ball]

41 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

but your main track does, so you will be linking a circuit breaker protected supply to a non circuit breaker protected supply every time you cross a point - I would avoid that myself

Andy

 

Yes I had overlooked that completely. The accessory Bus only went in when we moved here and clearly there is a flaw in the system.... where to get another NCE breaker....

 

Standing in front of the railway, I clearly changed it when the accessory bus went in. Its fully protected on a circuit breaker - phew!

Edited January 27, 2022 by Neal Ball

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Yes I had overlooked that completely. The accessory Bus only went in when we moved here and clearly there is a flaw in the system.... where to get another NCE breaker....

 

Standing in front of the railway, I clearly changed it when the accessory bus went in. Its fully protected on a circuit breaker - phew!

Great - but I still don't really understastand why you want the frogs on a seperate supply - I know they are the most likely thing to short if you hit a point from the frog end that is incorrectly set but in my head that is when I want that entire power region to shut down while I switch the point or otherwise intervene? I clearly want the point motor to be unaffacetd so I can switch the point. So I use track power on frogs and accypower  on point motors. I guess everyone has their own views on these things.

best

Andy

[Regularity]

Andy, Neal refers to “autofrogs”. I presume these are the electronic short-circuit detectors that flip the polarity, usually called grog juicers.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

Andy, Neal refers to “autofrogs”. I presume these are the electronic short-circuit detectors that flip the polarity, usually called grog juicers.

I believe that Gaugemaster make both relay-based and solid-state polarity reversers. I don't know how the relay-based ones work. The solid-state ones only need to be connected to the track bus, not the accessory bus.

 

This page is a useful primer:

 

https://dccwiki.com/Frog_Juicer

[Andy Keane]

I now have one AIU in place being driven by a MERG DTC8a block detector which works just fine (after I swapped round all the transistors on the DTC8a).

But my current problem is that JMRI seems only to read the first six channels of the AIU (I am using CAB address 10 for this AIU).

It is most odd - the seventh AIU channels lights up on the AIU but the interface to the JMRI seems not to notice!

I don't suppose anyone following this thread has used JMRI at all with NCE AIUs?

Andy

[Andy Keane]

To get away from wiring I have just been trundling my 14xx up and down with its YouChoos sound chip in - very satisfying - I know not everyone likes sound but it works for me.

I would post a video but have no idea if that is possible - the editor does not seem to want to accept mp4 files.

Andy

[Harlequin]

23 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

To get away from wiring I have just been trundling my 14xx up and down with its YouChoos sound chip in - very satisfying - I know not everyone likes sound but it works for me.

I would post a video but have no idea if that is possible - the editor does not seem to want to accept mp4 files.

Andy

You can't post videos to RMWeb directly but if you upload to a video hosting service, typically YouTube, then you can embed the link to that and RMWeb will show the video in your posts.

 

I have one of the original sound-fitted versions and it will be interesting to hear if your 14xx is much improved over my old one.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

57 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

You can't post videos to RMWeb directly but if you upload to a video hosting service, typically YouTube, then you can embed the link to that and RMWeb will show the video in your posts.

 

I have one of the original sound-fitted versions and it will be interesting to hear if your 14xx is much improved over my old one.

 

Ah! - that makes sense. Try this:

Andy

[Harlequin]

Hi Andy,

 

Here's mine from Oct 2018:

 

Yours sounds pretty good. I think Hattons have changed their sound project in the 3+ intervening years - and they needed to! My version, by Olivias I believe, is really weak.

 

We are both interested in similar periods of GWR operations and it looks like we both made similar mistakes: Buying 14xx locos when we should have got 48xx with either "Great Western" or the shirtbutton on the side!

 

My 14xx was lampless and running with a van between it and the autocoach (Oops!). Yours has a white-bodied lamp, which is correct for the livery but for any time before late 1937 the lamp should be red-bodied.

 

We live and learn!

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Harlequin

[Neal Ball]

On 27/01/2022 at 23:43, Regularity said:

Andy, Neal refers to “autofrogs”. I presume these are the electronic short-circuit detectors that flip the polarity, usually called grog juicers.

These are the ones I use

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-dcc80.html

Edited January 29, 2022 by Neal Ball

[Neal Ball]

13 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Ah! - that makes sense. Try this:

Andy

 

10 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Andy,

 

Here's mine from Oct 2018:

 

Yours sounds pretty good. I think Hattons have changed their sound project in the 3+ intervening years - and they needed to! My version, by Olivias I believe, is really weak.

 

We are both interested in similar periods of GWR operations and it looks like we both made similar mistakes: Buying 14xx locos when we should have got 48xx with either "Great Western" or the shirtbutton on the side!

 

My 14xx was lampless and running with a van between it and the autocoach. Yours has a white-bodied lamp, which is correct for the livery but for any time before late 1937 the lamp should be red-bodied.

 

We live and learn!

 

Interesting to see both of your sound fitted locos. I’ve looked from time to time at the project page for the 48xx on Youchoos. I think it would be easier to permanently couple the loco to the auto coach and fit the sound in there. Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

[CoombeTown]

13 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Ah! - that makes sense. Try this:

Andy

Hi Andy, this sounds great. Could you tell me what speaker you used, presumably in the bunker? I'd quite like to replicate it on my example when I get around to it.

 

Thanks

[St Enodoc]

On 28/01/2022 at 11:52, St Enodoc said:

I believe that Gaugemaster make both relay-based and solid-state polarity reversers. I don't know how the relay-based ones work. The solid-state ones only need to be connected to the track bus, not the accessory bus.

 

This page is a useful primer:

 

https://dccwiki.com/Frog_Juicer

 

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

These are the ones I use

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-dcc80.html

As I expected, they only need to be connected to the track bus (and the frog, of course). Quoting:

 

"There are three solder connections on the board, 2 connections labelled “R” - which you should connect to your rails or your bus and 1 connection labelled “F” which you connect to the frog input wire."

 

"Bus" in this context means track bus.

[Andy Keane]

3 hours ago, DRoe96 said:

Hi Andy, this sounds great. Could you tell me what speaker you used, presumably in the bunker? I'd quite like to replicate it on my example when I get around to it.

 

Thanks

The sound in my 14xx is from YouChoos. According to the invoice it's a zimo MS500 with YouChoos 14xx immersiveDrive and a YCSCUBE7 speaker (15x11x7 1.2W 8ohm) all installed by John Gymer with one of their lamps on board as well.

I started the installation but when I ran into some issues, John undertook to finish it for me. I am really incredibly impressed by the sound, given how small the whole installation is.

As noted above it’s not really correct in term of loco or livery for 1930 Helston but its close and I have always had a soft spot for the 14xx. I plan to couple it to an auto coach just to provide a change from 45xx and B set operation – I just need to source a suitable coach and light it up. I also have a Steam Railmotor Diagram R number 97 in Choc Cream on order which again is unlikely. And a series of tender locos I will run as well (Earl, Dean goods and Manor) – none of which makes great sense – I suppose I am being fastidious with the layout, but rather less so with the actual stock I will run. When I feel like full realism these various bits and bobs will have to hide in the fiddle yard!

Andy

ps - I first started thinking about a 14xx back in 1974 as a scratch build project - I got the wheels and some castings but never got far - time flies!

Edited January 29, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

12 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Andy,

 

Here's mine from Oct 2018:

 

Yours sounds pretty good. I think Hattons have changed their sound project in the 3+ intervening years - and they needed to! My version, by Olivias I believe, is really weak.

 

We are both interested in similar periods of GWR operations and it looks like we both made similar mistakes: Buying 14xx locos when we should have got 48xx with either "Great Western" or the shirtbutton on the side!

 

My 14xx was lampless and running with a van between it and the autocoach (Oops!). Yours has a white-bodied lamp, which is correct for the livery but for any time before late 1937 the lamp should be red-bodied.

 

We live and learn!

 

Phil, which 48xx would you advise? Also loving your coach - where is that from?

Andy

[Andy Keane]

18 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

I now have one AIU in place being driven by a MERG DTC8a block detector which works just fine (after I swapped round all the transistors on the DTC8a).

But my current problem is that JMRI seems only to read the first six channels of the AIU (I am using CAB address 10 for this AIU).

It is most odd - the seventh AIU channels lights up on the AIU but the interface to the JMRI seems not to notice!

I don't suppose anyone following this thread has used JMRI at all with NCE AIUs?

Andy

I have now found a thread on the jmri users group that tells me there is a known issue with some pins on NCE AIUs such that they have a different sensitivity that means the LED lights up but the circuit does not trigger! A fix is in the offing but is not strictly needed on this board as yet.

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Phil, which 48xx would you advise? Also loving your coach - where is that from?

Andy

 

Sorry, I forgot you had the sound installed by YouChoos when I posted above. So obviously it will be be better than the Hattons project in mine! (Most of my locos have YouChoos sound now, although I have experimented with other suppliers and Mr SoundGuy is also very good.)

 

As for a 48xx, well you and I are both in the same corner on that one! Yours is custom sound fitted and mine is 3 years old so they can't go back to the suppliers to be replaced. And good Hattons/DJM 48xx models are thin on the ground. You could go for a Hornby version but the detail doesn't come close to the Hattons model. So basically the only remaining course is to replace the GWR letters with correct period livery and to renumber the locos we have.

 

Unless someone's got a better idea???

 

Edit: Forgot to say, the autocoach in the video was the Hornby version but I also have a Bachmann autocoach with an ESU DCC controlled lighting strip in it. The Bachmann model is much nicer but wrong for my period (again!). And the Hornby version does not represent a true prototype because it has elements of the A28 and A30 diagrams mixed together. It's a bit of a minefield!

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Sorry, I forgot you had the sound installed by YouChoos when I posted above. So obviously it will be be better than the Hattons project in mine! (Most of my locos have YouChoos sound now, although I have experimented with other suppliers and Mr SoundGuy is also very good.)

 

As for a 48xx, well you and I are both in the same corner on that one! Yours is custom sound fitted and mine is 3 years old so they can't go back to the suppliers to be replaced. And good Hattons/DJM 48xx models are thin on the ground. You could go for a Hornby version but the detail doesn't come close to the Hattons model. So basically the only remaining course is to replace the GWR letters with correct period livery and to renumber the locos we have.

 

Unless someone's got a better idea???

 

Edit: Forgot to say, the autocoach in the video was the Hornby version but I also have a Bachmann autocoach with an ESU DCC controlled lighting strip in it. The Bachmann model is much nicer but wrong for my period (again!). And the Hornby version does not represent a true prototype because it has elements of the A28 and A30 diagrams mixed together. It's a bit of a minefield!

 

I was thinking about renumbering 1420 anyway as the original plate is flush and not proud so I could stick a number plate over the top. Then it would need the lettering changing but I am in no hurry.

I will take a look at the Bachmann coaches.

[Regularity]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

"Bus" in this context means track bus.

At least it’s not on a b****y overbridge!

 

(Addendum: Gaugemaster could be clearer about this: control bus, track bus, power bus, accessory bus…)

Edited January 29, 2022 by Regularity
Added a bit.

[Harlequin]

5 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

The sound in my 14xx is from YouChoos. According to the invoice it's a zimo MS500 with YouChoos 14xx immersiveDrive and a YCSCUBE7 speaker (15x11x7 1.2W 8ohm) all installed by John Gymer with one of their lamps on board as well.

I started the installation but when I ran into some issues, John undertook to finish it for me. I am really incredibly impressed by the sound, given how small the whole installation is.

As noted above it’s not really correct in term of loco or livery for 1930 Helston but its close and I have always had a soft spot for the 14xx. I plan to couple it to an auto coach just to provide a change from 45xx and B set operation – I just need to source a suitable coach and light it up. I also have a Steam Railmotor Diagram R number 97 in Choc Cream on order which again is unlikely. And a series of tender locos I will run as well (Earl, Dean goods and Manor) – none of which makes great sense – I suppose I am being fastidious with the layout, but rather less so with the actual stock I will run. When I feel like full realism these various bits and bobs will have to hide in the fiddle yard!

Andy

ps - I first started thinking about a 14xx back in 1974 as a scratch build project - I got the wheels and some castings but never got far - time flies!

 

I just realised that you've got one of the brand new MS range of decoders (faster processor, more RAM, better sound driver, etc.). YouChoos aren't selling them separately yet so you've done very well, here!

 

[Andy Keane]

3 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

I just realised that you've got one of the brand new MS range of decoders (faster processor, more RAM, better sound driver, etc.). YouChoos aren't selling them separately yet so you've done very well, here!

 

Yes indeed, the were happy to supply if they got photos and video of it being fitted and then run for their marketing - I even got a discount

Chuffed?

Andy

[Andy Keane]

For a change I have this weekend gone back to building construction. This is the LCUT framing for the wooden framed carriage shed - as ever Jakub has done a great job from my drawings.

The shed had a corrugated iron roof and I am still pondering the best way to do this.

Andy

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Andy Keane