Helston Revisited

[St Enodoc]

22 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Do you know the part number for bullhead rail? - I can only find the LK-156 Inspection Pit which is I think the flat bottom version that Graham has used. The LK-56 says its suits all their PECO 00/H0 Setrack and Streamline Flexible track systems but I don't really see how that is possible if it takes code 100 rail.

Sorry Andy, my mistake. I was thinking of the LK-156 which is for Code 75 rail but in fact flat-bottom not bullhead. However, I reckon you could get away with it by adding plenty of grot and grime!

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/inspection-pit

[Andy Keane]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry Andy, my mistake. I was thinking of the LK-156 which is for Code 75 rail but in fact flat-bottom not bullhead. However, I reckon you could get away with it by adding plenty of grot and grime!

 

https://peco-uk.com/products/inspection-pit

Yes I think that is the answer and that is what Graham says he has done.

[Andy Keane]

 Just converted a very old Bachmann split chassis Mogul to run with a spare DCC decoder I had lying around after converting one of my newer engines to sound. Also added current pickups to four of the tender wheels and renewed the main driving wheel set and intermediate gear. Amazing how much happier it now is for a bit of loving. But I am still thinking about one of the new Dapols to replace it. .

[MJI]

What locos ran on there in real life, apart from 45xx and D63xx?

[Andy Keane]

29 minutes ago, MJI said:

What locos ran on there in real life, apart from 45xx and D63xx?

Well according to the later versions of Jenkin's book these ran at various times:

• Churchward prototype 0-4-4 nos 34/35 in the very early days
• 517 class
• Metro tanks (2-4-0)
• 44 / 45xx - the main stay - numbers 4401/ 3/ 5/ 6/ 8/ 9 4500/ 4502/ 06/ 09/ 17/ 23/ 25/ 37/ 40/ 45/ 48/ 54/ 56/ 58/ 64/ 65/ 70/ 74/ 77/ 5562
• 2021 saddle tanks
• 850 saddle tanks
• 58xx tanks (0-4-2)
• 2700 saddle tanks
• NB type 2

But I have other ideas and plan to run this stable:

• Churchward no 34 with four wheel carriages - I have a brass kit of the loco but not the skill to build it!
• Two or thee small Prairie tanks - I have a pair of Samhongsa brass ones so far
• One saddle tank 0-6-0 no 1302 - from Bachmann
• A Dukedog / Earl - Bachmann
• A Metro Tank when I can find one I like
• A 58xx tank - Hattons
• Dean Goods - Oxford Rail
• A Steam Railcar - to be purchased, on order from Kernow
• A Mogul - either the old Bachmann or a new Dapol
• Hinton Manor - to be purchased, on order from Accurascale
• and an a Deltic from Accurascale (see posts above)!

The idea is the tanks are what would have actually been there, the Dukedog for summer specials (plausible?), and the Dean goods and steam railcar might have visited. The mogul and manor would not, but I love them and the Deltic is just madness from my youth.

Andy

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Andy Keane

[MJI]

I do have 2 x 45xx including the BR mainstay of 4566.

 

Only 1 D63xx so far, I think my other hydraulics are too big, and my other locos are too new.

 

All my WR DMUs are blue, blue grey or Choc cream.

 

The Swindon Intercity sets never made it down there.

[MJI]

I could run my BRCW 118!!!!, just replace the Bs with Ps

[Tankerman]

4 hours ago, MJI said:

I do have 2 x 45xx including the BR mainstay of 4566.

 

Only 1 D63xx so far, I think my other hydraulics are too big, and my other locos are too new.

 

All my WR DMUs are blue, blue grey or Choc cream.

 

The Swindon Intercity sets never made it down there.

 

When they were new, or virtually new, one of the Class 123 units appeared on the morning 'workman's' train, not specifically a workman's train, but most of the passengers were from Penryn going to Falmouth Docks, as I was at the time; for two or three mornings over a period of two weeks during the summer/early autumn of 1963. 

[MJI]

I did work out that a well known twin power car train would fit.

 

Power cars, light.

Carriages not much longer than GWR 70ft stock.

 

But I was surprised the BR shunter later known as 08 never ran on it.

 

May use my old Airfix 14xx.

[MJI]

Just now, Tankerman said:

 

When they were new, or virtually new, one of the Class 123 units appeared on the morning 'workman's' train, not specifically a workman's train, but most of the passengers were from Penryn going to Falmouth Docks, as I was at the time; for two or three mornings over a period of two weeks during the summer/early autumn of 1963. 

 

A 123 is my next DMU project after my Snow Hill Cardiff pre TOPS IC set.

 

Those ends will be hard to draw up!

 

Weird but today I have been working on

 

Ex GWR mid 30s BCK E148, Ex GWR 70ft BTK, Swindon IC set (the W79xxx ones), a BR era MR 2P, and some BR 21t MDVs.

 

OK I have a half made BR layout in the garage buried under garage junk, I have started a 1960s Cornish branch project for indoors, and a prospective 1950s plank representing a short length of somewhere between Gloucester and Ashchurch for my IC DMU and 2P.

 

The E148 BCK I am soldering up today could be on my BR blue layout OR my Cornish branch. Depending on colour. 6913 (99240) was on the main line.

[Andy Keane]

On 08/07/2021 at 21:13, 5BarVT said:

Hi Andy,

 

I’ve made up a table for the 1956 frame which I think will also be what was present in 1932.  Following a comment from The Stationmaster, and the photo of the point indicator signal, I have assumed that the diagram has transposed the shunt signal and the indicator.  Since no-one can know for sure, we can’t be wrong!  There aren’t enough levers to signal the Stone Siding accessed from the Loading Dock so I have also assumed that shunt signal 4 in the Dock is fitted with a white light to permit a move into the siding when the signal is on.  It’s all right under the eyes of the signalman so can be controlled safely by communication between him and the shunter.

 

Paul.

 

Helston 1956.pdf 41.52 kB · 20 downloads

I have been thinking about the stone shute siding now I am actually at the point of laying its track. It baffles me.

 

It was clearly there when Helston was first opened and also still there in 1920 when I have a photo showing it. Then it was lifted in the late 30s and relaid after the war, when the well known stone shute was installed. But in its ealier guise I can find no eviednce there was any means of loading (or indeed emptying) wagons on that siding. There is no record of a shute in the early days or any evidence of a roadway to the cutting top above the siding, There was just a platelayers hut at the end of the siding. Moreover the cutting is very deep at this point as the later photos of the shute show. So why was this siding put in when the station was built? Clearly making the cutting significantly wider to accomodate it would have been an avoidable expense. Currently I don't think I have enough evidence to add any shute or loading facilities above this bit of track for my 1930s model. This link shows the area just before the stone shute was installed in the 1950s: https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=33347&search=Helston&page=5 . The old plate layers hut is still there (it was demolished during the track relaying so that the siding could be extended closer to the road going over the bridge) but there is no sign of any earlier shute or goods access.

 

So, could it be the siding was created to allow shunting movements along the goods platform with reduced need to push wagons onto the main line? There was definitely a shunt ahead signal for the main line in the 1920s so sometimes pushing wagons or carriages under the bridge would have taken place (maybe to sort wagons for the goods shed loop) but I wonder if the stone shute siding was originally just a goods platform head siding and was repurposed when it was relaid in the 50s. Perhaps one of the more knowledgable types who follow this thread might understand the benefits of a shunt head siding like this and could advise.

 

At the other end of the station it seems the embankment on the goods shed site at some stage had a retaining wall added and the ground filled in to provide an off-loading area for goods. I think this is where the Gas Co coal was unloaded. I plan to build the embankment with the wall rather than without as it seems to have been there a long time, though originally topped with a low wall and iron railings to stop people falling over it.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

I am beginning to think of the basic station structure and thus platform construction. There seem to be a number of approaches people use. Some RM web pages advise against hollow platforms as these are said to be  difficult when "planting" things like signs and lamps which tend to be less secure, advising instead the use of things like balsa or foam blocks as the core, covered in suitable materials to represent the face, corbling and upper surface. Does anyone have any views on this?

Andy

[Gilbert]

Andy - whatever method you choose I'd make the whole thing on the bench - you can fettle and fit platform furniture, details, weathering (sorry) etc to your heart's content and when you are satisfied plant the whole thing.

I think yours is a "permanent" layout so the fidelity of fixing is not as critical?

Chris

[Andy Keane]

Chris

My layout is portable so I do need things quite well nailed won. Also I plan for the station platform and the roadway the otherside of the station building to be a continuous structure, though it has a split where it spans two baseboards. I was initially thinking of doing this bit on the boards and setting up the building iteslf on the bench and then marrying the two. I had planned for the platform / roadway to be hollow but I do see the benefit of a foam or balsa core, though it adds to the cost. I was toying with a layer of 15mm rigid foam topped with a layer of or two of card / plastic for the tramac  / platform flags, with maybe a sheet of wet and dry as the base tarmac surface. Then I was going to do similar for the goods platform but with slightly thicker foam if I can find it - 18mm would be ideal but if not I can rest it on a cork layer.

But as I have never done this before I am very open to suggestions - if I do use a rigid foam core it does allow your idea of building the whole thing on the bench which may well be easier - it has definitely set me thinking so many thanks.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

16 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Andy - whatever method you choose I'd make the whole thing on the bench - you can fettle and fit platform furniture, details, weathering (sorry) etc to your heart's content and when you are satisfied plant the whole thing.

I think yours is a "permanent" layout so the fidelity of fixing is not as critical?

Chris

ps - building off board would also allow better adjustment of the final position realtive to the track too.

[Andy Keane]

Today I managed to get the loco shed track laid. First had to add cork and then slot the boards for the ash and inspection pits. Tthen popped them in using flat bottom code 75 rail.

I split up the Peco sleepers to match the bullhead spacing. When its finally ballasted and suitable crud laid down only the rail tops will really show.

The shaped outline fits inside the shed.

[Graham T]

That trackwork really looks good Andy.  I'm taking notes for CR Mk II 🙂

[Andy Keane]

4548 in etch primer - this is a brass Samhongsa model that I have converted to DCC sound (YouChoos) and Kadee couplers. Next I plan to spray everything stain black before the final top-coat of GWR loco green on the tanks etc.

[Andy Keane]

28 minutes ago, Graham T said:

That trackwork really looks good Andy.  I'm taking notes for CR Mk II 🙂

Its Marcway mostly and there stuff is jolly good. I just supplied a full scale template created in AnyRail. I think the key is the entrance curves match the actual station ones and so are about 90" radius.

[Andy Keane]

Now I am laying track in the station I am having to think quite carefully about the order of doing things!

So far my plan looks like this:

1. add the dropper wires to the rails and frogs
2. unsolder the tie bars on the the throat points so the blades are free to move around
3. fill the cuts in the PCB sleepers and sand back
4. install the point rodding
5. paint all the rodding and trackwork, checking the paint does not make the blades stick
6. ballast the track, again checking the blades are free to spring back
7. paint / weather the ballast (ditto blade movement)
8. re-solder the blades up
9. install the point motors

With these long markway points there is a lot of blade free to move so control of stuff around them is vital

Andy

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Now I am laying track in the station I am having to think quite carefully about the order of doing things!

So far my plan looks like this:

1. add the dropper wires to the rails and frogs
2. unsolder the tie bars on the the throat points so the blades are free to move around
3. fill the cuts in the PCB sleepers and sand back
4. install the point rodding
5. paint all the rodding and trackwork, checking the paint does not make the blades stick
6. ballast the track, again checking the blades are free to spring back
7. paint / weather the ballast (ditto blade movement)
8. re-solder the blades up
9. install the point motors

With these long markway points there is a lot of blade free to move so control of stuff around them is vital

Andy

Andy, I would drop items 2 and 8 or you'll get yourself into a right two-and-eight!!!!!

 

Fixing blades to tiebars in situ is a right PITA. Easier to reduce the thickness of the trackbed under the tiebars so that they will "fly" above it.

[Andy Keane]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Andy, I would drop items 2 and 8 or you'll get yourself into a right two-and-eight!!!!!

 

Fixing blades to tiebars in situ is a right PITA. Easier to reduce the thickness of the trackbed under the tiebars so that they will "fly" above it.

Unfortunately I have already laid the points down and the only way of dropping the cork below the tiebars is to have them out - its not too bad - I experimented with one and checked I could get it back and working before going further - not trivial but I additionally find the ability to move the blades well out of the way when working on the sleepers and ground / ballast under them is worth the effort.

regards

Andy

Edited April 26, 2022 by Andy Keane

[KeithMacdonald]

Has this image of Helston from Flikr been seen here?

 

4554 at Helston on 18-08-58 by Howard Forster

 

 

[Andy Keane]

Keith, not sure we should post images with copyright on them. What does Howard Foster’s Flickr page say?

But yes I have seen this one before.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Currently I am thinking about point rodding and whether or not Helston had round or channel rods in 1930. I’m am tending towards round, but we know it was channel by 1945. Probably changed when the stone shute siding was lifted and one run of rodding no longer needed.