Solar panels

[black and decker boy]

Our first full day has provided:

22kwh generated

11kwh exported

0.2kWh imported

7kwh to battery

4kwh used

 

 

[hayfield]

15 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Our first full day has provided:

22kwh generated

11kwh exported

0.2kWh imported

7kwh to battery

4kwh used

 

 

 

 

With 11 kwh used/stored equates to £3.74 plus just under £1 exported not bad for a first day and I guess with the battery now fully charged the 7p of imports will disappear, onwards and upwards

 

Certainly if anyone has an appropriate roof space having solar panels is a no brainer 

[Ian Morgan]

Today is exactly 12 months since installation of my 10 panels and 10kWh battery. Total generation to date is just over 3600kWh.

 

The App tells me this has reduced CO2 by 3613kg, saved 1450kg of coal, and reduced deforestation by 199 (199 what though?).

 

 

[hayfield]

Whilst yesterdays production was disappointing at 7.5 kwh It was the end of the first 10 days of the new accounting period, which before the daily standing charges has made me a small profit of £2.50 after import fees have been deducted from export fees.

 

Therefore my electricity bill stands at £1.70 for the first 10 days, the value of the energy used plus standard charges is £27.68 so a great return from my panels

 

As far as June production, the first 5 days has produced 66.6 kwh, last June we produced 365 kwh for the month, of which we have used 15.4 kwh, the rest was exported

[hayfield]

After 7 days producing 90.2 kwh, the past 3 days have produced what seems a disappointing 15 kwh, as cloud cover was around both days

 

However including the standing charges, the value of the power used was £5.19. this was reduced to a cost of £1.89 once the value of our own production used and export fees were taken into account, not bad on two disappointing summer days. And far better than the illustration provided by the supplier

 

Given in now is so clear of the benefits why are new social housing builds not equipped with solar panels, especially when the cost of adding to a new build is a fraction of a retro fit ? 

Edited June 7, 2023 by hayfield

[black and decker boy]

12 hours ago, hayfield said:

After 7 days producing 90.2 kwh, the past 3 days have produced what seems a disappointing 15 kwh, as cloud cover was around both days

 

However including the standing charges, the value of the power used was £5.19. this was reduced to a cost of £1.89 once the value of our own production used and export fees were taken into account, not bad on two disappointing summer days. And far better than the illustration provided by the supplier

 

Given in now is so clear of the benefits why are new social housing builds not equipped with solar panels, especially when the cost of adding to a new build is a fraction of a retro fit ? 

I’ve posted here before about this.

 

Building Regs (Part L) changed in 2021, all new planning consents from June 2022 have to show significant energy savings which will mean pretty much all new buildings get solar PV and decent insulation thicknesses. The regs apply retrospective to all new builds not started by 15th June 2023 (in 7 days time) - sadly our Housebuilders, true to form, have spent that last 12months starting as many as they could by just installing footings. They can they build the actual house - walls & roof, at their leisure to the old rules.

 

change is coming and it is backed by legislation

 

commercial new builds covered in same way so most warehouses / offices etc getting solar PV by default too.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

I’ve posted here before about this.

 

Building Regs (Part L) changed in 2021, all new planning consents from June 2022 have to show significant energy savings which will mean pretty much all new buildings get solar PV and decent insulation thicknesses. The regs apply retrospective to all new builds not started by 15th June 2023 (in 7 days time) - sadly our Housebuilders, true to form, have spent that last 12months starting as many as they could by just installing footings. They can they build the actual house - walls & roof, at their leisure to the old rules.

 

change is coming and it is backed by legislation

 

commercial new builds covered in same way so most warehouses / offices etc getting solar PV by default too.

 

 

The thing is they may well have shot themselves in the foot as these properties will be worth less once the market wakes up to it, we are entering a down turn period in the housing market where buyers will hold the upper hand. 

 

We have noticed new work on a local housing development has come to a halt and only finishing off more advanced properties is being carried out. What you have said may be partly the reason, however there are stashes of unused material (bricks) stored for future use, I guess these will not get cheaper so may be seen as an investment

 

But I was talking about social housing where customers have little or no say in the property. Buyers on the other hand have the final word and I think are more savey and perhaps either demand them or a bigger discount

[black and decker boy]

8 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

The thing is they may well have shot themselves in the foot as these properties will be worth less once the market wakes up to it, we are entering a down turn period in the housing market where buyers will hold the upper hand. 

 

We have noticed new work on a local housing development has come to a halt and only finishing off more advanced properties is being carried out. What you have said may be partly the reason, however there are stashes of unused material (bricks) stored for future use, I guess these will not get cheaper so may be seen as an investment

 

But I was talking about social housing where customers have little or no say in the property. Buyers on the other hand have the final word and I think are more savey and perhaps either demand them or a bigger discount

New build social housing has to comply with the same building regs. They are typically still built by the same Housebuilders and hidden in plain site on all larger developments.

 

The days of council house estates are long gone and it’s now generally always a mix of private ownership, shared ownership & social rental on the same development 

 

existing social housing isn’t covered by the new regs so is down to housing associations / landlords to fund any retrofit and I think we all know the answer to that.

[hayfield]

On 07/06/2023 at 09:21, hayfield said:

After 7 days producing 90.2 kwh, the past 3 days have produced what seems a disappointing 15 kwh, as cloud cover was around both days

 

However including the standing charges, the value of the power used was £5.19. this was reduced to a cost of £1.89 once the value of our own production used and export fees were taken into account, not bad on two disappointing summer days. And far better than the illustration provided by the supplier

 

 

Two days later and 33 kwh to the good, thinks in the summer change quickly. 8 days gone and past the 100 kwh already with the next 3 days looking promising. So far this month my export fees are covering both imported energy costs and the standing charges. I never thought when we ordered our system that I would get extended period of free electricity, especially as we bought a budget system

 

This sadly is a bit of an Indian summer as far as export fees are concerned, with energy prices reducing at the month end I assume export fees will go down as well

Edited June 9, 2023 by hayfield

[black and decker boy]

First opportunity today to plug the car into our new solar array.

 

2kwh flowing and all home generated.

 

I should get a decent top up Sunday with this weather and better than exporting 15 or 20 KWh for free.

[hayfield]

The last 3 days has resulted in producing 50 kwh, not all the data available yet, but looking at the smart meter my electricity account is in credit even when the standing charges are taken into account, and the weather forecast is more or less more of the same weather

 

In the east despite the sunshine we have had cold winds coming from the north and certainly in the mornings the central heating is now on, yesterday was the first day the heating has not come on this year, whilst the first 8 days have cost only £12.42, according to the smart meter yesterday was under 40p. According to the central heating app the lowest temperature last night was 21.4 and certainly outside seemed warmer last night

[hayfield]

Now half way through this months billing period and I probably owe 50p to Octopus even after the standing charges have been deducted, as I said I doubt if this will last as I expect export fees will fall at the end of the month when the electricity price falls.

 

Two years ago we used 225 kwh in this billing period, using todays fees this equates to a cost of £89.52. So far we are projecting a total usage of 205 kwh, even so the value of what electricity we will use in this accounting period will be about £80 (£50 in 21 and net £19 in 22) with the weather to stay reasonably warm for the next 2 weeks the outlook is still favourable

 

We opened our garden yesterday for the Village garden open day for a local charity and a couple came back to say we had a chat last year about solar panels, they were thinking about having them installed and I told them about the Solar Together scheme, they followed this up and have just had their system installed last week, nice of them to come back and tell us. They said the discount was much smaller this year and I was surprised they even got one 

[Ian Smeeton]

Solar Panels installed last week, after three separate dates were missed.

 

Panels showing some damage on installation, too.

 

Finally connected today, except for one vital part.

 

May be three - four weeks before installers can get back to me.

 

Less than happy, believe me.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[hayfield]

15 hours ago, Ian Smeeton said:

Solar Panels installed last week, after three separate dates were missed.

 

Panels showing some damage on installation, too.

 

Finally connected today, except for one vital part.

 

May be three - four weeks before installers can get back to me.

 

Less than happy, believe me.

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

 

Ian

 

Sorry to hear this, the building industry seems a bit under pressure at this time

 

I would put your concerns in writing to the installers and insist they rectify the situation, I guess with the with the current situation of the industry being very busy things have a greater opportunity of going wrong. But you should be in control and in the end hold back a sum until the situation has been sorted to your satisfaction 

 

 

[hayfield]

On the Telegraph's front page it claims it has been too hot for solar panels to work efficiently

 

I noticed over the past few days my system was working at 80% max (2 kw), and putting it down to partial cloud cover

 

Yesterday morning was cooler and after a heavy shower when the sun came out the output shot up to 2.4 kw, I thought initially it was down to the panels having a clean from the rain. Now the truth is out, performance drops when it gets too hot 

 

Looking back over the past few days I can see as the temperature rises, performance has seemingly reduced

 

 

"Solar panels work by using incoming photons to excite electrons in a semiconductor to a higher energy level. But the hotter the panel is, the greater the number of electrons that are already in the excited state. This reduces the voltage that the panel can generate and lowers its efficiency. "

[young37215]

I had solar panels installed 10 years ago and they have proved to be an excellent investment. My 3.5KW array produce an annual average of 3.6MWH ranging from less than 1 KWH on a dark winter day to over 25KWH on a bright summers day. Extreme hot weather negatively affects performance, they are designed for optimal performance at 25 degrees. I find that my highest daily generation ocurs in late spring when days are long and temperatures have not reached their summer peak. 

 

I average electricity use around 12 KWH per day. During the summer months my electricity bills are negligible and I spill a significant volume onto the grid. I do'nt have a smart meter or battery but will explore the options as and when my inverter needs changing. In hindsight I timed my purchase well, although the feed in tariff I receive is less than the large amounts paid in the early days of solar, it still covers a substantial part of the cost of electricty I import from the grid for which I am grateful.

 

Since installation I have paid more attention to my electricity usage and as a result I have reduced what I use by around 20% annually. I am not a tree hugger but I do subscribe to the notion that the planets resources are finite and that using less of anything can only be a good thing.   

 

 

 

[Phil Himsworth]

I think the Telegraph are overegging it a bit, but then I'd take anything they say about energy with a pinch of salt. Solar panels do lose efficiency as they get hotter, but this only happens on summer days which are sunny and long; the small reduction in efficiency is more than compensated for by the much longer days and higher solar intensity in the first place. Today ours seemed to peak at about 7.1kw instead of about 7.7kw, which is a visible reduction but with the very long days we still end up generating more in total as they start working shortly after 5am and are still going at 9pm; the absolute peak being very slightly lower doesn't really make a difference. It's still higher than it was a month or so ago when the sun wasn't quite so high.

 

Four nuclear power stations are offline at the moment coupled with little wind; this is the main reason a coal power station was turned on, not solar panel efficiency.

[Ron Ron Ron]

We’ve yet to take the plunge and install solar PV and batteries, but I fully subscribe to the idea using this free and clean resource of power.

The earth is bombarded with energy from the sun, 24/7/ 365.

More energy each day than human civilisation can make use of.

It seems insane not to harness it.

[Hobby]

They've done the survey, now await further developments.

 

Just out of interest does anyone use a portable air conditioner? Just wondering if the panels would make enough to run one.

[Ian Morgan]

A good portable air-con unit uses somewhere between 3kW and 6kW. Unless you have a lot of panels, your panels, battery and inverter will limit you to a maximum of about 4kW of 'free' electric power. Anything over that will be taken from the grid.

 

So, assuming a 5kW air-con unit, it will draw at least 1kW from the grid. This will increase as the sun goes behind clouds. If you have fully charged a 10kWh battery and switch on the air-con at night, it will empty the battery in just over 2 hours (and still draw at least 1kW from grid whilst doing so).

 

 

[Phil Himsworth]

1 hour ago, Ian Morgan said:

A good portable air-con unit uses somewhere between 3kW and 6kW.

Uses, or removes as heat?

 

You can only get 3kw out of a 13A socket; a continuous load like an AC unit shouldn't do more than 2.4kw at 10A. On a sunny day like today a "normal" 4kwp solar install should be able to run one of those even at full load.

 

I don't know about portable ones but we've got a 7kw A2A heat pump with two indoor units that does aircon; today it's been keeping our house cool using about 300-400w continuously, what is nearly as low as it goes before cycling on and off (it's sized for heating, not cooling). I'm sure a proper permanent unit is much better than a portable one but even so...

 

For an average sized house aircon doesn't really take that much power; the temperature differential between a pleasant 21C inside and say 27C outside is small compared to 21C inside and say -3C outside in winter.

 

Despite the Telegraph's assertion that solar panels are rubbish in the heat we've just had our best day of generation so far, beating the previous record by 3kwh 🙂. I'm looking forward to our first Octopus Flux "bill" in a few days. Is it still a bill if they'll be paying us?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Phil Himsworth

[young37215]

9 hours ago, Phil Himsworth said:

Despite the Telegraph's assertion that solar panels are rubbish in the heat we've just had our best day of generation so far, beating the previous record by 3kwh

 

I think you'll find that they said the panels are less efficient, not rubbish which is borne out by my personal experience. My panels managed over 20KW's yesterday in 30 degrees of ambient heat, had the temperature been lower as it was a month ago, I would have expected nearer 25KW's. 

[black and decker boy]

11 hours ago, Hobby said:

They've done the survey, now await further developments.

 

Just out of interest does anyone use a portable air conditioner? Just wondering if the panels would make enough to run one.

As Phil says, a 13A plug limits draw to under 3kwh but ongoing running will be much lower. My 9 panel array peaks at around 3.5kwh generation.

 

last weekend I fed my EV with solar drawing 2.4kwh for several hours, getting 20kwh into the car over 2 days. 

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Phil Himsworth said:

I think the Telegraph are overegging it a bit, but then I'd take anything they say about energy with a pinch of salt. Solar panels do lose efficiency as they get hotter, but this only happens on summer days which are sunny and long; the small reduction in efficiency is more than compensated for by the much longer days and higher solar intensity in the first place. Today ours seemed to peak at about 7.1kw instead of about 7.7kw, which is a visible reduction but with the very long days we still end up generating more in total as they start working shortly after 5am and are still going at 9pm; the absolute peak being very slightly lower doesn't really make a difference. It's still higher than it was a month or so ago when the sun wasn't quite so high.

 

Four nuclear power stations are offline at the moment coupled with little wind; this is the main reason a coal power station was turned on, not solar panel efficiency.

 

Phil

 

The Telegraph seems to be quoting from a piece from the BBC science section

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/do-solar-panels-work-better-on-hot-days/

 

I guess my own experience which I quoted was a mixture of the excessive heat and milky cloud, today I seemed to maxed out at 2.1 kw's, against yesterday whist it was colder at 2.41 kw, as you say the compensation is the longer days and after nearly 13 days we have produced 186 kwh by 6:20pm

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, Hobby said:

They've done the survey, now await further developments.

 

Just out of interest does anyone use a portable air conditioner? Just wondering if the panels would make enough to run one.

 

Totally depends on how much power it uses, then how big your system is, finally if its only used on hot sunny days. However at night if you want it on you will need a set of batteries otherwise you will be importing, which you would have to do if you do not have solar panels. Seek advice from the installer