Solar panels

[hayfield]

Mike

 

The smart meter is a bit of a misnomer in that the meters can be used as either dumb or smart, its the box on top which connects the meters to the suppliers. What seems a bit odd is that using the mobile phone system is the only option !!

 

I guess to start off with as the mobile network reaches most of the population its a good start, but we know some areas have no reception. I wonder how if you don't have a smart meter how can you record how much power you export?

 

The failings of the new entrants relying on buying power when its cheap has been shown up and cost all of us a fortune, I can say Octopus has been very good and shown up the lack of customer focus shown by both our previous suppliers ( British Gas and SSE). All too often large companies just milk their customers.  

[hayfield]

The BBC is reporting that Cornwall energy is forecasting a reduction in energy costs in October to fall  saving an average of £148 pa. Well that's good news with the average cost being  £1920 down from the subsidised average cap of £2500 last year, we also received £68 payment direct to cushion the cost. so I doubt if there will be much if any assistance this year

 

This week has been a fully one, starting on Sunday saw me rack up a net bill of £1 for the day, 5 days later my net bill for the week so far is 12p. Looks like another day like last Sunday with Saturday being better.

 

By Sunday I expect my net electric bill will be around £6 for the 20 days against £10.50 last Year.

 

 

[hayfield]

The week started off not very good and my net spend for the first day was £1 however the week got better with a total net spend for the week of 80p plus of course the standing charge adding another £3.30. Still I used over £12 worth of energy and the standing charge you have to pay whether you use energy or not, my monthly bill has about 7 days to run and it looks like in total I will some where around my estimate of £42 assuming I get £30 for my exports

 

But as I said my true benefit is around £12 for the week and £37 for the first 20 days of the billing period. Even though we have had a disappointing summer the value of my own production has been as good if not better than last year and for once I seemed to made the right decision at the right time

[Ian Smeeton]

Finally had Solar Panels installed, but currently in a fight between the installers, and the Smart Meter company as to who has managed to install the solar feed on the supply side of the meter.

 

Meaning that while solar production looks great, I am being charged for every Watt that I produce, and the  energy company is getting excess solar for free as it is unmetered.

 

Juggle that with 12 hour shifts without access to mobile or internet, and this is becoming a long-drawn out fight.

 

It might be Trading Standards next, unless anyone has any better suggestions.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[hayfield]

We have 2 solar farms being built between the A12 and the village, never realised just how big they are  !!  They are in 2 distinct arears (seemingly being built at the same time by the same contractors) and covering at least 3 large fields. So the village in theory will be self-sufficient during the summer months, but then it just goes into the grid and the village has nothing to do with it anyway, better than just more non low cost houses using up scarce local resources.

 

The past 9 days have been very good with around 100 kwh produced in 9 days and 2 of these days were in single figures, I doubt though we will reach last Augusts 328 kwh, but the export income will be far higher,

[sjp23480]

31 August marked the first anniversary of the installation of our 3.5kwh solar system and 3kwh battery.  

 

I have been monitoring its performance and will let the figures below speak for themselves.  Observations:

 

1.  Battery power consumption is much lower than the panels, but probably makes the battery worthwhile

 

2.  The overall return of 12.8%  is based on the overall cost of £7,250.  12.8% is a significantly higher return than these funds might of achieved in the bank or other investments.  

 

3.  IMHO - it doesn't make such sense to calculate the payback period, as any returns from the system have to offset by any returns the money might have achieved had it been invested differently.

 

4.  I am surprised at the continuing level/cost of imports

 

5.  Switching to the market leading rate for exports would increase the annual return by £100 to >14%

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by sjp23480

[hayfield]

We have been back from holiday for just over 2 days and as you would expect our personal consumption has been higher than normal 14.6 kwh for the past 2 days worth £4.45, thankfully our net cost before standing charges was 35p. That's good value in my books

 

Also whilst away we hit our 2nd anniversary of having solar panels, the first year we produced 2454 kwh, this second year was down to 2338 kwh. But this was more down to poor weather in the winter, then a bad March, July and August, having said this other months mad up 3/5ths of the decreases. Its not degradation of panels we need to be concerned about but the weather being either too clouds or too hot, both of which reduces output. Both years were above the projected performance when the system was ordered. More importantly producing benefits far in initial expectations.

[Hobby]

Well they've now been fitted and although I'm not getting any money in yet as I'm awaiting the paperwork they are at least powering my aircon unit for free!

[Kris]

September so far has been fantastic. Up to yesterday we have sent 178 kWh to the grid.

[hayfield]

I have a smaller system and due to it being on the roof of a single story extension with a reduced angle it is less efficient as the days get shorter and the sun gets lower, also in the winter months also suffers from shading, however faces nearly due south.  9 days and 87kwh produced (yesterday was quite overcast, My average over 2 years is 198, kwh ( though the first year was 3 days short as we started generating on the 4th, so I assume the average would have been slightly over 200 kwh if the first Sept was a full month

 

I think the main thing is we have systems in place that benefit both us and the grid.

 

Just come back from a rail tour to Italy and the landscapes in both France and Italy are changing with the amount of solar power farms increased greatly since our last visit. I like the carparks with solar panel roofs, also there seemed to be large clusters of solar panels which seemingly tracked the movement of the sun, I have sinced Googled it and you can have either single or dual axis systems, though these (dual axis) are not roof mounted. Interesting developments

Edited September 9, 2023 by hayfield

[hayfield]

16 hours ago, Hobby said:

Well they've now been fitted and although I'm not getting any money in yet as I'm awaiting the paperwork they are at least powering my aircon unit for free!

 

 

Hobby

 

I do find this a bit strange but can believe it. At the same time I had the panels fitted two or three weeks later I changed supplier to Octopus. I was warned the documents would take a few weeks. Shortly after having the panels fitted we went on a 2 week holiday so upon our return I started to make phone calls.

 

Initially I was told that I needed the paperwork and it was UK Power Networks who held up proceedings. Both proved to be totally incorrect

 

System installed 3/9/21, returned from holiday 22/9/21. switched to Octopus 27/9/21

 

I phoned Octopus who said they only needed the reference number, no need for any hard copies

Then phoned UK Power Network who confirmed they replied to my installer within 3 days of receiving the request

My installer then admitted they had the paperwork and gave the the reference details required, which I forwarded to Octopus

 

I only lost payment (then less than 3p per kwh) for 24 days, I was told I could claim this back from UK Power Network from my supplier, as it was British Gas who I was leaving and the amount was so small it was just not worth the hassle

 

With the level of rates now being paid for exported energy, I think if I was in your position I would make a few phone short calls, its a benefit that belongs to you. Seemingly you have been given the same information I was given 2 years ago, which then turned out to be incorrect. As I said a few short phone calls or a couple of emails should resolve this matter

[hayfield]

On 28/04/2021 at 13:22, hayfield said:

I decided to bite the bullet and paid my deposit, I cannot see electricity getting any cheaper, I have two trains of thought either go for 10 panels as per the quote, or settle for 7 panels for a £1000 less, both seemingly cover my electric usage give or take a few £'s, selling excess electricity is not as economic   

 

On 29/04/2021 at 21:12, hayfield said:

To me my money is sitting in a bank not earning very much, this year it looks like I get an 8% return, this will increase as electricity never goes down, life time 25 years x 8 % + 200 % without taking inflation into consideration.

 

The point I am more interested in is its an investment on reducing my future electricity bills. any better ideas? Plus if the house has to be sold its energy rating will be much better than without it

 

On 09/07/2021 at 15:45, hayfield said:

We had our inspection earlier today and now are waiting for a formal quotation after the survey.

 

The down side is that the main roof can only fit 4 panels, however using the extension roof we can get an extra 8 panels, do we go for 8, 10 or 12. Just waiting for a final figure  once the scaffolding is taken into consideration, The one question is do we go for extra panels which will generate more electricity than we require ? the other limit is the cap on exporting energy

 

I will let you know what I find out

 

On 03/09/2021 at 21:11, hayfield said:

The system was installed today, very impressed by the panel fitter and the electrician. panels were fitted by about 3 pm but the electrical side took till about 6.30. A few slight issues, as initially I was going to have panels on the roof so the loft was surveyed. As it happened after the survey and final quote, we decided just to have the panels on our single story extension (due to its unusual design the main roof could only hold 4 panels. Anyway in some ways it was easier to fit the panels, however various options where to put all the electrical gear were though over and additional materials were needed

 

Still seems a very professional job has been done, only half a kw was produced by the time all the wires were connected. Lets hope its sunny tomorrow

 

 

Just looked back on the start of this thread, how little I knew comes to mind, I went for the budget system of 7 panels as installing an 8th panel was £500 (usually an extra panel cost £200, must be the additional cost of a larger inverter)

 

What a whirl wind the last 2 years have been, covid helped us to get a massive 40% discount, and the Ukraine war greatly increased the cost of energy. After the first 2 years the returns have been far greater than we were led to believe we would receive 

[hayfield]

I have been looking back at my pre and post solar panels and the projections

 

My projections were based on a unit price of 16p a kwh to import power and receiving 5,5p per KWH, the latter at the time were the best rates available (which I ended up getting) but far higher than the norm of 2p - 3p per kwh

 

By the time my system was installed the rate for a kwh had risen to 18p

 

Prior to my panels being installed my annual energy use (imports) were 3350 kwh

12 months after fitting my annual import was down to 2041 kwh a saving of 1309 kwh pa

after 22 months this has reduced further to 1880 kwh which is down  by 1470 kwh pa

 

In 23 months I have exported roughly 3220 kwh

Production over the same period was 4780 kwh

I have used in 23 months £1560 kwh, appx 12 mths 814 kwh pa,

projections assumed 788 kwh pa personal usage, 

 

I am surprised how accurate/realistic the sales blurb has been. And given the state energy prices have been over the past 18 months a very worthwhile investment.

 

By the end of next week hopefully Octopus will have released next quarters rates

[hayfield]

This is my 25th month of having solar panels and has been an interesting journey and I am 90 kwh away from generating 5 mega watt hours,

 

A couple of days ago we passed the first Septembers production, though it was 3 days short of a full month. Today we have passed last years production

 

At the start I was concerned how soon the performance of the panels would decline, but its the weather that is more important, I was never told when it got too hot performance would decline. I also got the wrong impression that this past year never reached the heights in the summer of the first year. The second year produced 116 kwh less production, this was down to 2 ( April and July) very poor months production, some of the past years months were better against the previous year, so how the 3 year pans out will be very interesting.

 

Financially this past year has been much better, down to export rates increasing to 15p per kwh, now with import costs in decline I anticipate export rates decrease, on the other hand the suppliers may be seeing the benefits of attracting/keeping customers with solar panels. Octopus has a trial where they give away free electricity at times of surplus, unfortunately I am not in one of the areas 

[hayfield]

Well my 25th month of having panels has just finished. This September has been better than the previous 2. In 2021 my system produced 193 kwh in 27 days and 2022 produced 202 kwh. This year it produced 228 kwh

 

My net cost of electricity  imported last year was £32.59, thanks to an increased export payment to 15p per kwh and slightly better weather my net cost was £13.71 (excluding standing charges

 

My total benefit last month of both my own production used and surplus exported was £43.51 against £33.85 last year I do keep referring to my initial quote which stated a total annual saving of £206 pa, last month produced 21% of that figure. The passed 3 months generated savings of £152.78 and with June being my best ever at £80.16, these 4 months alone bettered the initial quotation, May was not too bad also at £64.28. But prices were much higher.

 

As for October in 2021 the system generated 134 ( 4.66 per day) kwh and last year 170 kwh (5.66 per day) yesterday was disappointing at 3.3 kwh, but the outlook looks promising, even if rates have dropped this quarter. Still the outlook is good 

[hayfield]

A minor milestone has just been reached this morning in that my system has just reached 5mwh of production,

 

As I have said many times I have a budget system, which at the time seemed well priced and is saving me far more than I ever expected, granted we have been through an energy crisis, but we have been warned for the past 3 or 4 years of energy price rises, yet as usual as a country we all have sleepwalked to where we are now

 

I cant claim to have been far sighted, and had it not been for covid and lockdowns we may not have invested in panels. But with the oil cartels reducing output to raise oil prices, the sooner we find alternative sources of energy, or just become less dependant on oil products the better 

[hayfield]

October started with a bang and finished with a whimper. Performance was well below last years 170 kwh down to 139 kwh but above 2021 at 134 kwh

 

We used more power this year but last year we were on holiday for 10 days, so to be expected, however we used less electricity than 2021 and much less gas (2/3rds) 

 

As it happens we spent £9 more than last year on electricity, a good part of which could be down to being on holiday which in one way is surprising as exports were down by £6, used 8kwh less of our own production and imported 43kwh more, the drop in unit helped to keep our costs down

 

But whilst last year the value of our production was £33.58 this year fell to £27.39 its still a very good return (12%) on our investment

 

Now we are coming into winter, last year in November we produced 47 kwh, the previous year it was 63 kwh. But when we ordered the system we were expecting a average financial return of £17.04 pm. I think even in November we will not be far behind.

 

After 10 months our total benefit has been £449.73, where as we were led to believe we would receive £224 on average for the first 5 years, so in year 2 we are getting twice the benefit we expected.

 

Still nearly 3 years on from the first posting attitudes to solar power have totally changed

[black and decker boy]

Since our system went live in June we have generated 1.7mwh 

 

that is 50% of our annual consumption in 2022

 

we have used 1.1mwh and exported 0.55mwh 

 

we are currently saving in excess of £100/month from our bills compared to before June.

[hayfield]

Its surprising how much the benefits add up to, starting up in mid year gives you a good Idea of what to expect. Our system was fitted in September so the first six months was in the poorest time of the year.

 

Your usage is very good if you are using 2/3rds of your production, I assume you are using batteries it will be interesting to see how they perform in the winter

 

I don't know how much lower rates will drop and the next quarter may even see a rise in rates. We got so used to cheap energy as a country we failed to plan as well as we could for the time fossil fuel becomes expensive.

 

I thought Rolls Royce was developing mini nucellar reactors, but this has gone very quiet, plus too little has been done on wave energy . Clearly we need alternatives to coal and gas, but the biggest issue is the cost of heating in the winter if we are weened off gas

Edited November 3, 2023 by hayfield

[Ian Morgan]

From what I have seen of wave energy systems, (albeit prototypes), it does not seem that they can be built strong enough to resist the awesome power of the seas.

 

[Kris]

Just looked up our solar performance for October. Through the use of battery, imports at cheap periods and exports at peak times we made a profit of £2 before standing charge. This £2 was before taking into account the £49 we saved in direct solar usage. 

This was based on us generating 268 kWh last month. 

Having looked back since the system was installed (the last week of May this year) we have generated 2.9 mWh. Overall we are very happy with the way things are going. 

[Hobby]

21 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

From what I have seen of wave energy systems, (albeit prototypes), it does not seem that they can be built strong enough to resist the awesome power of the seas.

 

Hence they are going for tidal energy systems, which from what i remember were the original idea and tend to be in less exposed locations, now it's more important to get it going perhaps we'll see more of it.

[young37215]

It was the 10th anniversary of the installation of my 3.5KW array earlier this year. So far I have generated 36MW with 2020 peaking at 3.8MW. 

[hayfield]

November started brightly but was a wash out at the end. We suffer from shading during the worst 3 months, which we were warned about, this year we ended up midway between last years poor performance and the previous years slightly better return, the only benefit is that shading has no effect on cloudy days so has little effect on the years overall production

 

Whilst we are 12 ish days from the shortest daylight day apparently whilst morning daylight hours carry on reducing till then, the afternoon daylight hours will start increasing in a few days.

 

The other thing that happened recently is that Octopus had four new days when they paid you for the electricity you did not use. We missed two but other than only using the family room for 90 mins (turning lights off and computers in other rooms. One of the days we were using gas to cook our meal the other day we had our meal a hour later, we benefitted by £6.35 knocked off our bill (about 3 days electricity costs). Well worth putting ourselves out (with others) in reducing peak time usage and very high costs to the network,

[Kris]

On 10/12/2023 at 09:22, hayfield said:

The other thing that happened recently is that Octopus had four new days when they paid you for the electricity you did not use. We missed two but other than only using the family room for 90 mins (turning lights off and computers in other rooms. One of the days we were using gas to cook our meal the other day we had our meal a hour later, we benefitted by £6.35 knocked off our bill (about 3 days electricity costs). Well worth putting ourselves out (with others) in reducing peak time usage and very high costs to the network,

We have picked up on those, they are great. Over the 4 sessions so far we have gained over £31 off our bill. We were able to use our battery to export heavily at the times required whilst also cutting out usage to absolute background. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kris