Interesting and inspiring photos from Flickr....

[iands]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

Garw 1975 by Stuart Warr

 

 

Love the short but steeply inclined siding on the extreme right. Try putting that on a layout and see what comments you get back! 

[keefer]

Presumably a track of last resort for any runaway wagons?

[Steve O.]

On 31/05/2023 at 12:35, montyburns56 said:

If you need some inspiration for a modern shoebox layout.

 

Tees Yard 2012

 

 

Nice use of a three-way point, should be in "When the real thing looks like a model".

[Grimly Feendish]

On 31/05/2023 at 00:41, scottystitch said:

An odd shade of blue, and a couple of broken windows.  Beautiful image, however...

 

Liverpool Street, May 1960

 

 

Does anyone know why the windows are broken? Was vandalism a problem in 1960?

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, Grimly Feendish said:

Does anyone know why the windows are broken? Was vandalism a problem in 1960?

 

I don't think the windows are broken. Take a look at this pic of 5579 in the next platform. "Reflections" are almost identical.

 

[Grimly Feendish]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

I don't think the windows are broken. Take a look at this pic of 5579 in the next platform. "Reflections" are almost identical.

 

By Jove, I do believe you're right! Thanks!

[montyburns56]

This would make for a nice scene for a multi period layout

 

Pantyffynnon 2014 by alan williams

 

 

[montyburns56]

This is one of those mundane yet interesting pictures for as much about the background as the train itself. But it did get me wondering, when did BR stop using two restaurant cars ?

 

Laisterdyke 1974 by John Whiteley

 

 

[woodenhead]

Here is a picture by our very own Dave F from 1982 - still had two catering vehicles then

 

[hexagon789]

The Manchester Pullman in Mk3 days had two catering vehicles even into push-pull days. In earlier years it was a Mk1 RKB and a Mk3 RFB, later two RFM.

 

The IC125s had some two catering vehicle sets into the 1990s with the Tyne-Tees and Yorkshire Pullman sets having a TRFB and TRFK.

 

The IC225s had some Pullman sets with two SV until around the mid-90s.

[Steven B]

Two catering cars may still happen - do the likes of class 220 and 800s carry two catering trollies when two units are multipled together?

 

The 1986/87 timetable had both the Manchester Pullman and Liverpool Pullman sets with two catering vehicle, Mk1 RKB and Mk3a RFB for the two Manchester Pullman sets whilst a Mk1 RBR and Mk3a RFB could be found on the Liverpool sets.

 

86214, Tamworth by Jason Rodhouse, on Flickr

 

^John Dedman on flickr

 

^Carl Brunnock on Flickr

 

 

Steven B.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Steven B

[hexagon789]

43 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Two catering cars may still happen - do the likes of class 220 and 800s carry two catering trollies when two units are multipled together?

I don't think XC does double trolleys, not sure about GWR.

 

Avanti does normally staff both shops on double Super Voyagers and LNER both Café-Bars on 10-car Azuma formations.

[montyburns56]

22 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Here is a picture by our very own Dave F from 1982 - still had two catering vehicles then

 

 

Yeah, I knew about the early HST sets, but I was thinking more about loco hauled trains and especially the two MK1 RMB/RBR type set ups.

[montyburns56]

3 hours ago, Steven B said:

The 1986/87 timetable had both the Manchester Pullman and Liverpool Pullman sets with two catering vehicle, Mk1 RKB and Mk3a RFB for the two Manchester Pullman sets whilst a Mk1 RBR and Mk3a RFB could be found on the Liverpool sets.

 

86214, Tamworth by Jason Rodhouse, on Flickr

 

^John Dedman on flickr

 

^Carl Brunnock on Flickr

 

 

Steven B.

 

I must admit that I never knew that they were still using MK1 Restaurant cars in the Pullmans even at that late stage. Imagine paying a Pullman premium for the joy of a 1960s catering experience!

[woodenhead]

31 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Yeah, I knew about the early HST sets, but I was thinking more about loco hauled trains and especially the two MK1 RMB/RBR type set ups.

So the answer in that case would be, about the time that the services they were used on were replaced by a HST 😁

[woodenhead]

30 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I must admit that I never knew that they were still using MK1 Restaurant cars in the Pullmans even at that late stage. Imagine paying a Pullman premium for the joy of a 1960s catering experience!

What you mean proper cooking not some reheated hash 😁

[Michael Edge]

Both Manchester and Liverpool Pullmans originally had proper kitchen cars.

[montyburns56]

18 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

What you mean proper cooking not some reheated hash 😁

 

Funnily enough, seeing the pictures of the Manchester Pullman inspired me to do some Googling about them and there is a very informative post on Railforums.co.uk about the history of the later LH MK3s. It mentions how after the the Mk 3 BFOs were built, some FOs were withdrawn and converted to RFMs using the Cuisine 2000 modular catering. Microwavetastic!

 

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/pullman-coaches.31111/

[montyburns56]

11 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Both Manchester and Liverpool Pullmans originally had proper kitchen cars.

 

Do you mean the MK2 trains or the MK3 trains?

[montyburns56]

Sentinels at Lowestoft 1964 by Peter Brabham

 

 

[keefer]

3 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

Imagine paying a Pullman premium for the joy of a 1960s catering experience!

I thought Pullman passengers were served meals at-seat so making the meals in a standard Mk1 coach doesn't really matter. 

[Nearholmer]

Added to which, some very decent meals came out of Mk1 kitchens, probably still do on preserved railways and ‘specials’, and the cars rode quite decently on their later bogies.

 

IIRC, some of the cars still had loose chairs, which was a good thing, because they made sitting at table more comfortable than fixed ones.

 

The menus weren’t bad either. I used to travel standard, but then eat on the train as a treat, because that got you a first class seat, and at lunchtime you might be one of only two customers, so good portions too!  They made all their income from business travellers first thing in the morning and in the evening; lunch service had fallen out of popularity by the 70s, most people were happy with a sandwich, even the legendary BR ones. I don’t recall full lunch prices, but they weren’t so high that they were outside the range of a young, trainee or newly qualified engineer as I was at the time.

 

Rather a proper lunch in a Mk1 than the sort of thing available on most trains now.

[hexagon789]

5 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I must admit that I never knew that they were still using MK1 Restaurant cars in the Pullmans even at that late stage. Imagine paying a Pullman premium for the joy of a 1960s catering experience!

They are RKBs though - no seats in them! They have a kitchen almost the entire interior of the vehicle, a serving hatch one end and a buffet counter the other. The serving hatch end would usually be coupled against a dining car (often a normal air-con First Open, particularly by this stage), the buffet counter end towards 2nd/Std Class for their catering needs 

 

First Class Pullman travellers would've been seated in mostly the newest coaches on BR, the 1985 build Mk3B FOs - often regarded as the best First Class vehicles built.

 

1 hour ago, keefer said:

I thought Pullman passengers were served meals at-seat so making the meals in a standard Mk1 coach doesn't really matter. 

Asides from the fact that an RKB has no seats anyway! ;)

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Added to which, some very decent meals came out of Mk1 kitchens, probably still do on preserved railways and ‘specials’, and the cars rode quite decently on their later bogies.

 

IIRC, some of the cars still had loose chairs, which was a good thing, because they made sitting at table more comfortable than fixed ones.

 

The menus weren’t bad either. I used to travel standard, but then eat on the train as a treat, because that got you a first class seat, and at lunchtime you might be one of only two customers, so good portions too!  They made all their income from business travellers first thing in the morning and in the evening; lunch service had fallen out of popularity by the 70s, most people were happy with a sandwich, even the legendary BR ones. I don’t recall full lunch prices, but they weren’t so high that they were outside the range of a young, trainee or newly qualified engineer as I was at the time.

 

Rather a proper lunch in a Mk1 than the sort of thing available on most trains now.

Again though, the mid-80s Manchester Pullman sets had an RKB (though substitutions were of course not unknown) which has no seats.

 

Any First Class passengers would've been sat primarily in the 'Pullman'-branded Mk3B FOs.

[Nearholmer]

My point was that the decrying of Mk1 catering cars in general  was misplaced, rather than about the detail of which ones were in which trains.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Nearholmer

[The Stationmaster]

I'm a bit confused by some of the comments above (but not by 'Nearholmer's comments about Mk1 catering).   HST kitchens were capable of serving excellent meals and in the case of GWR's 'Travelling Chef' arrangement if you were in 1st Class your meal was served at your seat and it certainly didn't contain rehashed anything.   Similarly GWR Pullman catering was excellent on HSTs and i understand (but haven't sampled it) is rated very highly on IETs witha need for advance booking to ensure you get one of the limited number of places.

 

Similarly Mk1 kitchens were capable of serving superb meals of no lesser quality than anything else served on a train.  BTW on proper Pullman trains meals were also served to passengers in 2nd Class but I don't know if that carried on with the loco hauled WCML Pullmans but it had definitely been the case on the diesel 'Blue Pullman'  in their original workings (I know that because I regularly travelled on one and had a meal in 2nd Class).