South Moredon Dairy (a Morden South Bottling Plant inspired micro)

[ModRXsouth]

“Before Guards were allowed to ride in the back cab of the loco they had to be provided with accommodation in the train, and given the higher speeds that milk trains ran at this would, as Sitham Yard says, usually be a "passenger" brake rather than a "goods" brake, at least on the main haul.”

 

Adrian -

Thank you for your comments. Taking the above quote further, aside from BG, could the ‘passenger’ brake vans on the Southern milk trains to Vauxhall/Morden in the 60s and 70s (and until their conclusion?) have been a Van C or Stove R? 

[HillsideDepot]

The Southern isn't really my area of knowledge, but I don't see why not. The GWR had 4-wheel "Milk Brake Vans", but also used bogie brakes. There are also two sides to the operation of milk trains, certainly on the Western. The trunk trains from Cornwall and West Wales would pick-up en-route, but then be split up in London (at Kensington, I think) to serve the various bottling plants with each resulting, shorter rake, needing a brake van. 

There is a photo somewhere on RMWeb (although probably among the missing images at the moment) of a Q1 with its tender and cab in the milk shed at Morden South with a BR standard brake van in the shadows behind. And the promotional film shows 16t coal wagons on site, which would have needed a goods brake to get them there and back (although the mode of operation might have meant that it stayed on the mainline during the shunt). 

[HillsideDepot]

As I was passing on the railbus to Swindon Junction this afternoon, I caught the dairy shunter pulling out some empty coal wagons.

 

 

[Nick Holliday]

This month’s issue of Back Track magazine, July 2022, has an article on Steam-Era Duties on the Southern, by Alistair Nisbet, which includes two photos of trains serving Morden Dairy. One shows a Q1 with a train of tanks, with some van I cannot identify behind the tender. The other is clearer, with a Class 4 4-6-0 at the head of a train of milk tanks, running tender first, with a standard BR goods brake van at the front of the train, next to the engine. 

[ModRXsouth]

Back Track magazine, July 2022,
Nick -

Thank you for that information. I will look out for a copy to read on the train to this Saturday’s GRS Didcot show!,

[HillsideDepot]

This time yesterday I didn't even know I wanted a poster board here, and now it's "planted".

 

At the real location the site is very much longer than my layout, and while the land does rise away from the bottling plant it is some considerable distance to the actual bridge (which, of course, isn't anything like my amalgam of M&SWJR designs). Photos show both a car park next to the dairy buildings, and then a long length of cutting side, which I jus don't have space for.

 

So what to do with the gap between the buildings and the bridge? Originally I had thought I'd have a distant view of the houses rising up the hill in Moredon, but my site visit proved that that shot isn't possible with trees and a modern school in the way. As the land form has been gradually built up and vegetation has been added a West Hill Wagon Work 3d print of a pole mounted electricity transformer has been planted there. But, much as I like the model, it wasn't right for that location. While looking through one of my boxes of bits for some other signage I spotted some adverting hoardings and realised that would fit the bill perfectly. So a quick Google for some suitable adverts, a collection of plastic and some BBQ skewers later I have this.

 

 

With just a dwindling service on the rump of the M&SWJR now, few will actually see the adverts, but the guys at head office don't know that and keep the signs periodically renewed. 

[Not Jeremy]

That looks really good Adrian, just the job!

 

And don't forget folks, this layout is booked to attend "Larkrail" on the 23rd July this year, so come along and see it in the flesh, as it were.

 

That Ruston looks so good in that livery....

 

Simon

[HillsideDepot]

Moving to the opposite end of the layout, detail in the loading shed is now pretty much complete.

 

Although, with the front wall now fixed in place, the detail is less visible (and hidden when the tanks are in position!).

[Porfuera]

This look great. I have been enjoying this thread a lot and I'm looking forward to seeing more as it develops further. Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Neil.

[HillsideDepot]

A bit more progress today. The fence between the private sidings and BR(WR), station canopy glued in place but still drying, first half of the shed roof cut and test fitted, DAS capping stones on the bridge at initial shaping stage. And less than a month until "Larkrail"!!

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Spelling

[HillsideDepot]

Some more progress, the loading now has its roof on.

 

 

I want to add the roof girders and overhead pipework, but that will have to wait until after Larkrail which is approaching rapidly. 

[HillsideDepot]

Time to draw out the empty coal wagons, ready for BR arriving with the next couple of loaded ones.

 

[HillsideDepot]

Teddy [bear] on the tanks

 

[HillsideDepot]

"Boredom at Moredon"

(with thanks to Phil Turner on the Facebook Micro Layouts Group for suggesting the title)

 

[HillsideDepot]

As the shadows start to lengthen and the gaffer goes to the office to sort the paperwork, there is time to hide round the corner and have a quick smoke.

 

 

The last few days have seen me add some steps down to the lower level. These are guess work as I have no photos which show this area, it being hidden behind the stop block. My summation is that there would be a need to get down to the lower level without going through the tank shed which would have had a reasonable level of hygiene. Coal wagons can be seen in a number of photos and the film in the rear siding, and with no other options I guess they were unloaded by dropping the door onto the brick wall a shovelling the load out. I know wagon doors weren't supposed to be propped open for unloading, but would resting on a wall be different? Or, perhaps, there was a gap in the wall? The position of the chimney and the coal wagons imply that the boiler house is in this section of the building, but I don't know. Easy access between the boiler house and the railway sidings seems logical, so I've provided it.

 

I've also added some of the many pipes which ran along the wall and into the next building. I don't have the depth or length to really get them looking like they were, but for now I'm content. Rather like the worker in the photo.

[HillsideDepot]

South Moredon Dairy will be at Larkrail on July 23rd

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by HillsideDepot
To add link

[Karhedron]

On 14/06/2022 at 13:39, ModRXsouth said:

Taking the above quote further, aside from BG, could the ‘passenger’ brake vans on the Southern milk trains to Vauxhall/Morden in the 60s and 70s (and until their conclusion?) have been a Van C or Stove R? 

 

Passenger brake vans generally stopped appearing in milk trains in 1969 when the rules were changed to allow the Guard or Second Man to ride in the rear cab of diesel locos. They continued to appear occasionally if the loco was single-cabbed. The only place I can think of where this happened regularly was the West-country milk at Vauxhall which was worked to Waterloo and then shunted back by the station pilot (often a class 09 shunter) after the morning rush.

 

The SR used quite a variety of brake vehicles on milk trains. Van Bs, Van Cs, Stove Rs and Queen Mary Brakes were all quite common seen. Stannier 50' BGs were also fairly common. These brake vehicles rarely carried much apart from the Guard so the smaller the better in most cases so as not to waste motive power hauling empty air. BR Mk1 brakes were not common as they were still fairly new and also quite heavy but they did turn up occasionally, including the aforementioned Waterloo - Vauxhall trip.

[HillsideDepot]

The early morning railbus coasts into the bay platform at South Moredon while the dairy's 48DS runs down the yard alongside

 

 

[ModRXsouth]

On 14/07/2022 at 12:45, Karhedron said:

 

Passenger brake vans generally stopped appearing in milk trains in 1969 when the rules were changed to allow the Guard or Second Man to ride in the rear cab of diesel locos. They continued to appear occasionally if the loco was single-cabbed. The only place I can think of where this happened regularly was the West-country milk at Vauxhall which was worked to Waterloo and then shunted back by the station pilot (often a class 09 shunter) after the morning rush.

 

The SR used quite a variety of brake vehicles on milk trains. Van Bs, Van Cs, Stove Rs and Queen Mary Brakes were all quite common seen. Stannier 50' BGs were also fairly common. These brake vehicles rarely carried much apart from the Guard so the smaller the better in most cases so as not to waste motive power hauling empty air. BR Mk1 brakes were not common as they were still fairly new and also quite heavy but they did turn up occasionally, including the aforementioned Waterloo - Vauxhall trip.

Karhedron -

Thank you so much for addressing my June query.
Your mention of Van Bs and Queen Mary Brakes in the milk trains is a particular revelation so I hope there is also a chance some photos exist. A miracle if such photos show the Morden South trains!

The Stanier 50’ BG - central square lookout port - must be the type shown in the photo referred to in my original query.
I have also just realised that all of your stated brakes are available in N gauge, as do four types of Express Dairy milk tanks: Dapol six wheeled navy blue, sky blue, silver and Peco four wheel black. Also egg vans from Farish and Peco for extra stock variety.

[HillsideDepot]

So, that's Larkrail done and dusted and the layout back home. There were a few operational teething troubles, but most people seemed to like what they saw, and maybe one or two might be inspired to have a go at a layout. Above all it was good to be at a show again, and talking to like-minded people as well as plenty of curious others. 

 

I'm going to keep the layout set-up at home for a while to enjoy it, so there might be a photo or two on here as the trains come and go. In the meantime Postie brought a parcel today, and well, you know how it is, you've got to test a new loco...

 

I'm not sure what I'll be doing with it yet, but being a Port of Bristol Authority loco it is a "local" one, and was acquired for what I consider to be a good price. For now I'm going to enjoy South Moredon though, P B A 39 will have to wait its turn!

[Karhedron]

On 15/07/2022 at 12:49, ModRXsouth said:

Your mention of Van Bs and Queen Mary Brakes in the milk trains is a particular revelation so I hope there is also a chance some photos exist. A miracle if such photos show the Morden South trains!

The Stanier 50’ BG - central square lookout port - must be the type shown in the photo referred to in my original query.
I have also just realised that all of your stated brakes are available in N gauge, as do four types of Express Dairy milk tanks: Dapol six wheeled navy blue, sky blue, silver and Peco four wheel black. Also egg vans from Farish and Peco for extra stock variety.

 

Browse through some photos of SR milk trains and you should find some with Maunsell Vans. Here is a picture of a QM van on a milk train at Seaton Junction. None specifically of the Morden milk train. This was normally a trip working from Clapham Junction so could have featured any of the brake vehicles mentioned above.

 

 

Just a word of warning. The light blue Express Dairy tank with the swoosh logo is fictitious. Express Dairy painted their lorries in that livery but never their rail tanks.

 

The Peco tank is also incorrect as it is 4-wheeled. 4-wheeled milk tanks did exist but they were the early design built in the late 1920s and were found to be unstable at speed so were quickly replaced with the 6-wheeled design in the 1930s. Express Dairy never bought any 4-wheeled tanks, they went straight to the 6-wheeled pattern.

 

This means that only the Dark Blue and Silver designs are historically accurate. The good news is that there was a long period of overlap in the 50s and 60s were you could see both liveries in the same train.

 

[Karhedron]

I have found a photo of the South Morden milk being shunted. As this was only a trip working for empties to Clapham Junction, it did not merit the normal passenger brake van and instead just had a normal goods brake. I have seen Stove-Rs and Stannier 50' brake coaches on the South Morden milk but I can't find the photos at the moment.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Karhedron

[Karhedron]

Here is a photo of a Q1 bringing the empties from Morden back onto the mainline at Wimbledon. There is a Stove-R at the rear.

 

[ModRXsouth]

Karhedron -

Many thanks for continuing to unearth gems of information about the Morden South milk trains! The brake Van photos plus the Stove R confirmation are invaluable.

Then you add another revelation - the false light blue Express Dairy tank livery. I have long wondered at the lack of photos of real tanks in that design so there must be story behind Dapol’s decision to produce it. Could it have been a special commission that became a retail product?

I have come across a website about Nine Elms shed - svsfilm.com. An entry states that the night milk train from Torrington to Morden “was worked by a Western Region crew with a Warship or Western class loco. A Nine Elms driver would conduct them from Clapham Junction to Morden and back via the main line.” It would be really incredible if photos exist of a Warship or Western at Morden South!

 

[Bulleidnutter]

Having just read through thre whole topic. I must say Im happy someone else has seen the potential in Morden south as a model. I am in the planning stages of doing it in 7mm rather than 4mm with the mainline in place. The Std4 in the photo above is probably 75069 as she was seen quite often on that duty. Also photos of her shunting Wimbledon goods yard as well.