Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[black and decker boy]

My charger was from Rolec who use the EV energy app.

this is what the app shows me

[boxbrownie]

Interesting news

https://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/electric_hybrid_vehicles/warburtons-first-16-tonne-100-percent-electric-20210423

[raymw]

They seem to have got a mix up in their electrical units, wrt energy and power.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Back to new EV's.

 

The motoring press in S. Korea have been getting their hands on production versions of the Hyundai Ionic 5.

 

Here's one video.

(note the electronic door mirrors on the press cars are a price option and won't be standard.

Battery size and trim specs will be different for N. America and different again for Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

Matt Ferrell's "Undecided" YouTube channel has some interesting and thought provoking content.

His latest video is a revisit to the subject of Solid State Batteries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited April 24, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[AngusDe]

I don't know if this has been covered recently, but I am now in Motability territory and was thinking of taking the EV plunge via the scheme. 

 

During lockdown my trips have been limited to to/from the hospital, but I hope for more adventurous days out soon.

 

I was wondering if anyone has looked at it from this perspective and has any useful thoughts/input?

 

Thanks,

Angus

[boxbrownie]

6 hours ago, raymw said:

They seem to have got a mix up in their electrical units, wrt energy and power.

It’s the press, specialised as well 

[Joseph_Pestell]

6 minutes ago, AngusDe said:

I don't know if this has been covered recently, but I am now in Motability territory and was thinking of taking the EV plunge via the scheme. 

 

During lockdown my trips have been limited to to/from the hospital, but I hope for more adventurous days out soon.

 

I was wondering if anyone has looked at it from this perspective and has any useful thoughts/input?

 

Thanks,

Angus

Seriously considered a Dacia Spring (even though it would need the tyres changing) but range was just a bit low for journeys to the seaside which was a consideration.

So just purchased (in the UK) a secondhand C5 Tourer. Might still get an electric car for shorter local trips, but we don't really need/want two cars.

[boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Seriously considered a Dacia Spring (even though it would need the tyres changing) but range was just a bit low for journeys to the seaside which was a consideration.

So just purchased (in the UK) a secondhand C5 Tourer. Might still get an electric car for shorter local trips, but we don't really need/want two cars.

The transition period between needing one or two cars is a pain when the one you really know you should have a want isn’t quite “enough”........we did it in the end but it took the “big” car sitting on the drive for 14 months doing nothing for us to finally realise.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, boxbrownie said:

The transition period between needing one or two cars is a pain when the one you really know you should have a want isn’t quite “enough”........we did it in the end but it took the “big” car sitting on the drive for 14 months doing nothing for us to finally realise.

 

Yes, it may well be that when I no longer need the C5 for towing a trailer, while renovating the house, we can change tactic and go for something electric that can get us (or just her) to the coast and be our only "daily driver" car.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

The transition period between needing one or two cars is a pain when the one you really know you should have a want isn’t quite “enough”........we did it in the end but it took the “big” car sitting on the drive for 14 months doing nothing for us to finally realise.

 

We keep a Jazz gathering moss on the off-chance we might go to Cornwall.

100 mile range would skip most of the inconvenience of a 24kWh Leaf.

200 mile range and it could happily be our only car.

 

The Jazz might have to stick around for after Madam passes her driving test so she can properly drive a manual.

[Ian J.]

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) and a recharge from near flat to a true 80% level within half an hour, then batteries just haven't made it to reasonable single car use for both shorter and longer journeys. I certainly feel that I can't afford to have two vehicles as a single person.

[Enterprisingwestern]

22 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Interesting news

https://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/electric_hybrid_vehicles/warburtons-first-16-tonne-100-percent-electric-20210423

 

What is secondary bread?

 

Mike.

[Fenman]

7 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) and a recharge from near flat to a true 80% level within half an hour, then batteries just haven't made it to reasonable single car use for both shorter and longer journeys. I certainly feel that I can't afford to have two vehicles as a single person.

I think we’re surprisingly close to that: both Tesla and Lucid claim they’ll shortly launch cars with ~500 mile ranges, and even staid old Mercedes is promising >400 in its new S class EV. 
 

I think for 99% of us those figures are ludicrously high. The number of us that will *ever* want to drive 500 miles without stopping for a break is minuscule.

 

Even for the tiny fraction of us that does, buying all that capacity for an exceptional event is incredibly inefficient— a bit like arguing that, while I normally live alone, my family comes to stay with me for Christmas so I *must* have a house with at least 12 bedrooms and a dining table that seats 20. 

EVs will never suit every single person’s current lifestyle better than an ICE (eg, range, the absence of private property on which to instal a home charger, or the capacity to tow a 3 ton trailer). But for the vast majority of us even among the existing first generation of EVs there’s likely to be a car that does pretty much everything we need. 
 

The fact is, in the long haul you’re either going to have to accept the best that is available or change your lifestyle. My “perfect” ICE car has never been produced; I’ve always had to accept compromises. You’ve presumably been lucky enough to get exactly what you want until now, but it’s something EVs (currently) don’t offer. I’m afraid the world has changed around you. Just as I deeply regret the passing of restaurant cars on trains to and from Norfolk, that time has gone — or for ICE cars, by 2030, will be gone for new sales. 

 

2030 still gives the market plenty of time to get close to what you want or to offer other ways to provide it (eg, Tesla’s fast-charging network maybe being opened to other cars; new cars get an 800v architecture and fast-charging; etc), and it also gives you plenty of time to adjust your lifestyle. 
 

Paul

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) 

 

Many petrol cars can't do that. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) and a recharge from near flat to a true 80% level within half an hour, then batteries just haven't made it to reasonable single car use for both shorter and longer journeys. I certainly feel that I can't afford to have two vehicles as a single person.

 

I certainly sympathise with that view. But batteries are heavy and dragging round 500 miles worth of battery all the time is not energy efficient when most journeys will be only a few miles.

Unless there is a step change in batteries, the best solution must be batteries that can easily be installed and taken out as required.

[StuAllen]

Personally range anxiety is a real issue, I like the idea of being able to charge at home, and newer vehicles as certainly becoming more attractive due to their range, but it needs to be a realistic range that’s able to cope with having the heating on in winter and traffic incidents it’s not uncommon to be stuck in traffic jams due to an accident for an hour or so. Do the manufacturers claims take this into account? I know I’ve never been able to achieve the stated figures with any car I have - my car should do 36mpg but the best I can get is around 25 on the urban cycle.
 

i would want to be able to do 350-400 miles as a round trip. I will be stopping and having breaks on the journey but there may not always be access to a charger when I stop. What happens if you get to a hotel but all the charges are already being used, or motorway services where the chargers are already being used by others stopping for coffee while they charge their cars. Is the infrastructure going to change to cope with that? Should every parking space have a charger? that said what’s an acceptable time to charge the batteries  should the aim to be to make it is as quick as refuelling an iICE vehicle? Will that just result in more expensive complexity.

 

The positive is that it is changing and I have no doubt that my perceived problems will be addressed .

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

What is secondary bread?

 

Mike.

Didn’t read the article but could it perhaps be the bread “ends” which are not used for sandwich making for the large food manufacturers, it adds up to an awful lot of fresh unwanted bread.

 

Oddly there was a bit on Tv recently about these “ends” being used in beer brewing, I think the beer was called “Toast” quite a clever name I thought..

[black and decker boy]

2 hours ago, StuAllen said:

Personally range anxiety is a real issue, I like the idea of being able to charge at home, and newer vehicles as certainly becoming more attractive due to their range, but it needs to be a realistic range that’s able to cope with having the heating on in winter and traffic incidents it’s not uncommon to be stuck in traffic jams due to an accident for an hour or so. Do the manufacturers claims take this into account? I know I’ve never been able to achieve the stated figures with any car I have - my car should do 36mpg but the best I can get is around 25 on the urban cycle.
 

i would want to be able to do 350-400 miles as a round trip. I will be stopping and having breaks on the journey but there may not always be access to a charger when I stop. What happens if you get to a hotel but all the charges are already being used, or motorway services where the chargers are already being used by others stopping for coffee while they charge their cars. Is the infrastructure going to change to cope with that? Should every parking space have a charger? that said what’s an acceptable time to charge the batteries  should the aim to be to make it is as quick as refuelling an iICE vehicle? Will that just result in more expensive complexity.

 

The positive is that it is changing and I have no doubt that my perceived problems will be addressed .

I’m approaching 18 months and 11,000 miles with my EV. I’m comfortably doing journeys of 200m+ without recharging and without anxiety about running flat. I spent last week in deepest east Anglia visiting various work sites doing a round trip of 400 miles. I pre planned my trip to recharge at Kings Lynn in bound & outbound as I knew my hotels had no charger. So 2 quick chargers (with time for a take out coffee) and that was enough to get back home. (I was able to add additional charge at my last worksite  though didn’t need to (free electric should never be refused).

 

in terms of winter, yes battery range drops a bit but still means I can drive from Oxford to Manchester or Doncaster without stopping to recharge.

 

I’ve never turned up at a recharge station and had to wait though I get access to the Tesla network. New charging points are appearing all the time, both BP & Shell run networks (including on existing forecourts) and are investing heavily. Most supermarkets have chargers now. The higher capacity networks are growing.

 

being in traffic is heaven for an EV, the onboard systems use so little electric that battery isn’t really eroded unlike an ICE which is burning fuel every minute.

 

As I’ve said before, EVs won’t suit everyone currently but as we head towards 2030, range will increase, charging infrastructure will increase and choice of EV models will increase so should suit more people.

Edited April 25, 2021 by black and decker boy
Typo

[Guest]

2 hours ago, StuAllen said:

it needs to be a realistic range that’s able to cope with having the heating on in winter and traffic incidents it’s not uncommon to be stuck in traffic jams due to an accident for an hour or so. Do the manufacturers claims take this into account? I know I’ve never been able to achieve the stated figures with any car I have - my car should do 36mpg but the best I can get is around 25 on the urban cycle.

People ask about the traffic jam thing quite a lot. It shows how ingrained is acceptance of the way ICE vehicles are horribly inefficient. Again with the urban cycle thing.

 

It takes roughly 10kW just to maintain 30 or 40 mph on level ground. If you’re not moving there’s no draw. Ancillaries will draw a few hundred watts while you’re standing. Heating even if you don’t have a heat pump will only be about a kW to maintain temperature on a cold day.

So sitting in a jam is using much less power than when you were driving along. In stop-start traffic you get to recover some energy when you slow down.

 

The only time I’ve had trouble like that was starting out cold with 60% charge when the temperature was -10 and the road froze over causing a huge jam. When I turned round and went down the M4 instead I did have to stop for a top up. But that’s in a car with an 80 mile summer range.

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

Many petrol cars can't do that. 

The ease of refilling a petrol car is an argument for wanting a longer range on an EV, but I'd imagine that the reality is that unless your job involves spending most of your time on the road a little bit of planning around the occasional longer journey really won't be all that much of a problem.

 

I think a guaranteed 200 miles in all conditions range would be enough for me personally.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Reorte

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

I think a guaranteed 200 miles in all conditions range would be enough for me personally.

Where we are now is you have 200 miles under favourable conditions in a car that is comparable in price to an ICE when you take into account savings in running costs.

 

Personally I never want to go back to a filling station model.
Let the car charge while you are doing something nicer.

 

[Guest]

On the subject of quoted ranges a couple of manufacturers (Fiat is one) are saying urban range is actually higher than the official WTLP range which will puzzle some petrol heads.

[Ron Ron Ron]

13 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I still feel that until we have 500+ mile range (with 'normal' driving and toys usage) ......

 

Just to add what has already been said above....

 

500 miles is London to Fort William. Who can manage that without a stop for at least a "comfort break"?

 

The average mileage use of all motor cars in the UK  (inc. high mileage business use) is just under 7000 mile per annum.

That works out at an average of 140 miles per week, based on 50 weeks of use.

In other words an average of 20 miles per day over 7 days, or 28 miles per day based on 5 days use (again based on 50 weeks).

 

Latest National Travel Survey figures pre-Covid (2019).

Average annual business mileage is just 555 miles p.a.

Average business journey takes 42 mins.

 

So even with a fair number of high mileage business users, doing 20, 30 or 40,0000 miles a year, these are very much in the minority.

The vast majority of car users will only require a 200 mile range to cover a weeks car use.

300 miles should be a good enough "comfort blanket" to cover all but the very high milers, something the next generation of battery cars should easily achieve.

 

 

.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[PenrithBeacon]

On 23/04/2021 at 18:48, black and decker boy said:

My charger was from Rolec who use the EV energy app.

this is what the app shows me

Thank you for that. I've taken a look at the website and gather that this device requires an additional SIMCARD which implies additional running costs, can you confirm please?

https://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging