Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Jeremy Davison said:

Yes, there may be a very slight reduction in range, but I've not noticed it yet.

 

There's quite a noticeable drop regardless of power draw just from the battery being cold. It will charge slower too. Unless your battery has heating.

[Jeremy Davison]

Yes, it does:

"Stable temperature conditions: more power when driving and charging

The thermal management system aims to get the battery up to the ideal temperature range of around 30 degrees Celsius quickly after it is started and to keep it there until the end of the journey. This ensures that its full power – and therefore the power of the entire drive system – is available after a short time even in extremely cold conditions. Thanks to the stable thermal conditions, the driver can also call on it repeatedly or charge the battery at an HPC charging terminal with high output. The sophisticated thermal management system also gives the battery a long life cycle – Audi guarantees that it will still have at least 70 percent capacity after eight years of operation or after 160,000 kilometers."

From https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/electric-suvs-in-the-premium-compact-segment-the-audi-q4-e-tron-and-the-q4-sportback-e-tron-13887/battery-thermal-management-and-charging-13902

 

What I can't tell, is whether the system will warm the battery whilst it is still plugged into the house whilst the cabin warms up.

[boxbrownie]

10 hours ago, Jeremy Davison said:

Yes, it does:

"Stable temperature conditions: more power when driving and charging

The thermal management system aims to get the battery up to the ideal temperature range of around 30 degrees Celsius quickly after it is started and to keep it there until the end of the journey. This ensures that its full power – and therefore the power of the entire drive system – is available after a short time even in extremely cold conditions. Thanks to the stable thermal conditions, the driver can also call on it repeatedly or charge the battery at an HPC charging terminal with high output. The sophisticated thermal management system also gives the battery a long life cycle – Audi guarantees that it will still have at least 70 percent capacity after eight years of operation or after 160,000 kilometers."

From https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/electric-suvs-in-the-premium-compact-segment-the-audi-q4-e-tron-and-the-q4-sportback-e-tron-13887/battery-thermal-management-and-charging-13902

 

What I can't tell, is whether the system will warm the battery whilst it is still plugged into the house whilst the cabin warms up.

If it’s like the BMW you have to tell it your planning on going on a journey so the car can start to warm the traction battery up before you leave, it takes a few hours to get a large cold battery up to 25/30°……the cabin climatisation takes just 15-20 minutes.

 

EVs are very clever but they cannot predict when your going to use them…….maybe in a year or so 😆

[Guest]

3 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

EVs are very clever but they cannot predict when your going to use them…….maybe in a year or so 😆

 

My phone charges to 80% and then stops. It starts again later so it hits 100% just before I normally start using it.

[boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

My phone charges to 80% and then stops. It starts again later so it hits 100% just before I normally start using it.

Blimey I use mine so seldom my phone would be on tenterhooks just waiting, I assume it has “learnt” your usage pattern.

[Vistisen]

My homecharger is connected to an app on my phone. I tell the  app when I am planning to leave in the morning. it knows how many kWh my car needs, and finds the chepest time to charge the car. I have a hybrid and that actually uses a small petrol powered heater to warm the car up rather than using the battery.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Vistisen said:

I have a hybrid and that actually uses a small petrol powered heater to warm the car up rather than using the battery.

I hope they warn you against using it in a garage, our Range Rover had a huge warning label on the visor warning of using the cabin pre-heater in an enclosed space, and as you programmed it it also flashed the warning on the screen as well.

 

Will the car not climatise the cabin when plugged into the charger?

Edited December 10, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Vistisen]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I hope they warn you against using it in a garage, our Range Rover had a huge warning label on the visor warning of using the cabin pre-heater in an enclosed space, and as you programmed it it also flashed the warning on the screen as well.

 

Will the car not climatise the cabin when plugged into the charger?

It seems to chose to use the petrol heater even then, unless you have less than about 1/4 of a tank. The other thing I have noticed is that when driving in hybrid mode It uses petrol for heating and electricity for motion, unless the low fuel light is on, then it choses to use the pertol engine for both motion and heating via the normal engine radiator as in conventional cars. Mind you here the temperature this week has been as low as -8C which would use a lot of battery to warm up a car,

Edited December 10, 2022 by Vistisen

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vistisen said:

 I have noticed is that wen driving in hybrid mode It uses petrol for heating and electricity for motion,

 

That makes sense. Burning stuff is great for heating, not so great for motion.

Going back to the very early days of (modern) EVs the Fiat Seicento EV soley used petrol for heating.

[admiles]

This being the first winter of having my company Toyota Hybrid I've discovered an interesting little "quirkette"!

 

When needing to defrost the windscreen normally you'd start the engine and direct some, hopefully, warm air toward the inside of the windscreen.  Not so the Toyota. Oh no because when you "start" it it "starts" on battery not petrol. So no warm air to defrost your screen. The only way I've found it get the engine to kick into life is to drive it a few hundred metres down the road with my head out the side window because, of course, the windscreen is frozen solid! Then stop and wait for the engine to warm up and defrost as normal.  Checking with my former colleague who had the car before me found he'd never found the answer to that either. 

 

Incidentally on collecting it from it's service last week I was told the propulsion battery is nearing the end of it's life and will require replacement. I didn't ask the cost as a) it's leased and going off lease in February and b) it's still under warranty until February too. I'd be mighty concerned if I owned one at similar age though. That said I haven't checked to see if the battery is covered for longer than the standard 5 year warranty.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, admiles said:

When needing to defrost the windscreen normally you'd start the engine and direct some, hopefully, warm air toward the inside of the windscreen.  Not so the Toyota. Oh no because when you "start" it it "starts" on battery not petrol. So no warm air to defrost your screen. The only way I've found it get the engine to kick into life is to drive it a few hundred metres down the road with my head out the side window because, of course, the windscreen is frozen solid! Then stop and wait for the engine to warm up and defrost as normal.  Checking with my former colleague who had the car before me found he'd never found the answer to that either.

 

Sounds broken. The engine should cut in immediately to provide cabin heat. Nordic spec Toytas get a PTC heater like an EV.

[Ryde-on-time]

1 hour ago, admiles said:

This being the first winter of having my company Toyota Hybrid I've discovered an interesting little "quirkette"!

 

When needing to defrost the windscreen normally you'd start the engine and direct some, hopefully, warm air toward the inside of the windscreen.  Not so the Toyota. Oh no because when you "start" it it "starts" on battery not petrol. So no warm air to defrost your screen. The only way I've found it get the engine to kick into life is to drive it a few hundred metres down the road with my head out the side window because, of course, the windscreen is frozen solid! Then stop and wait for the engine to warm up and defrost as normal.  Checking with my former colleague who had the car before me found he'd never found the answer to that either. 

 

Incidentally on collecting it from it's service last week I was told the propulsion battery is nearing the end of it's life and will require replacement. I didn't ask the cost as a) it's leased and going off lease in February and b) it's still under warranty until February too. I'd be mighty concerned if I owned one at similar age though. That said I haven't checked to see if the battery is covered for longer than the standard 5 year warranty.

 

 

Our Toyota Corolla hybrid starts its engine straight away in this weather, just as it does every time if you want to increase the cabin temperature from the ambient temperature it's at

 

The advantage of the hybrid is that while the engine is running when I de-ice the car it's charging the battery, so I then use less petrol on the journey because of the increased battery range (whereas in a normal ICE the fuel is just wasted)

[johnd]

And with a BEV you just plug into the mains charger and tell it to defrost, after 3/4 mins a nice warm car and ice free windows all around !!! Unplug and drive away.

[admiles]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Sounds broken. The engine should cut in immediately to provide cabin heat. Nordic spec Toytas get a PTC heater like an EV.

 

If it is broken it's been like since new.

[admiles]

22 minutes ago, johnd said:

And with a BEV you just plug into the mains charger and tell it to defrost, after 3/4 mins a nice warm car and ice free windows all around !!! Unplug and drive away.

Don't have the option of a BEV. No where to charge it at home or work.

[admiles]

1 hour ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Our Toyota Corolla hybrid starts its engine straight away in this weather, just as it does every time if you want to increase the cabin temperature from the ambient temperature it's at

 

The advantage of the hybrid is that while the engine is running when I de-ice the car it's charging the battery, so I then use less petrol on the journey because of the increased battery range (whereas in a normal ICE the fuel is just wasted)

 

Strange, wonder why the C-HR is different. I'd have expected them to be pretty similar. How old is your Corolla?

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

If it is broken it's been like since new.

How old is the car?  Seems strange they are saying it needs a new traction battery, Toyota/Lexus have been making these hybrid drives forever and they are bulletproof normally.

As for the demisting if required at low temperatures it should work from key on, whether it needs engine or from battery power, that’s how our RX450h

worked.

 

edit, sorry forget yours is a Honda, forget my remarks they probably just got it wrong 😁

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by boxbrownie

[admiles]

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

How old is the car?  Seems strange they are saying it needs a new traction battery, Toyota/Lexus have been making these hybrid drives forever and they are bulletproof normally.

As for the demisting if required at low temperatures it should work from key on, whether it needs engine or from battery power, that’s how our RX450h

worked.

 

edit, sorry forget yours is a Honda, forget my remarks they probably just got it wrong 😁

 

 

It's a 2017 (67 plate). And it's a Toyota C-HR.

[DaveF]

My Yaris doesn't always start its engine when I switch it on.  To make the engine on very cold days I merely floor the accelerator for a moment - obviously when it is in Park and the handbrake on.

 

An alternative is to switch on the air con and put the fan on full, that usually makes it start.

 

David

[boxbrownie]

46 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

It's a 2017 (67 plate). And it's a Toyota C-HR.

Aha sorry my mistake, for some reason I thought C-HR was a Honda nomenclature, in that case my points stand, seems crazy it doesn’t operate the same as other Toyota/Lexus stable vehicles.

[boxbrownie]

44 minutes ago, DaveF said:

 

 

An alternative is to switch on the air con and put the fan on full, that usually makes it start.

 

David

I would have expected that would be the normal defrost procedure, high heat (AC doesn’t work above approx 3-4 degrees anyway), and full air on screen, what does it say in the

manual?

Edited December 12, 2022 by boxbrownie

[DaveF]

30 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I would have expected that would be the normal defrost procedure, high heat (AC doesn’t work above approx 3-4 degrees anyway), and full air on screen, what does it say in the

manual?

 

As far as I remember it doesn't mention it in the full manual.  The short version just says to press the start button and wait for the dashboard symbol to light up. 

 

I only mentioned the air conditioing as it usually makes the engine start even if the battery is charged.  If it is not very hot or very cold I rarely use aircon - it is rarely that hot in Northumberland on the coast.

 

In normal weather the car almost always moves off from my drive on battery power then the engine starts when the battery charge is low enough.

 

David

[Hobby]

17 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Aha sorry my mistake, for some reason I thought C-HR was a Honda nomenclature, in that case my points stand, seems crazy it doesn’t operate the same as other Toyota/Lexus stable vehicles.

 

Honda CR-V! All getting a bit confusing!! ;)

[admiles]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

Honda CR-V! All getting a bit confusing!! ;)

 

Believe Honda also did (maybe still do) and HR-V too!

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Believe Honda also did (maybe still do) and HR-V too!

 

And the FR-V which was their Fiat Multipla equivalent.