Z21 issues with Tablet - Android, OS or Windows.

[jamesed]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

Z21 App - Products - Roco z21

 

Personally I would go by the stated system requirements rather than FAQs because stated System Requirements would  seem to be more binding than a FAQ, though there should be consistency. FAQs are rarely written by system developers, whereas System Requirements are generally specified by the developer.

 

To back up my point on the accuracy of FAQs the German version of FAQs states it is 2GB of RAM

 

If anyone cares sufficiently then they could always write to Roco and request clarification 😆

 

 

The system requirements don't actually state the RAM requirement.  That's helpful information if the german language version of the same faq page states 2Gb. That would certainly be more realistic in my view.  I did email Roco to ask them to clarify this last year but never received a response.  My best guess is that 2Gb is absolutely fine but, in general, the more RAM you have, the better.   If using a 2Gb device just check your app housekeeping.  Most Android devices come with lots of pre-installed apps that run in the background that you may not need. Social networking apps, store apps, newspaper apps etc. usually are running continuously and will be using RAM. 'Force stop' or delete any apps you don't need to run which will leave more memory available for what you want to run. 

 

Keith,  Random Access Memory or RAM is different from storage memory. It's what's used for processing the operating system or apps when they run. It's always listed separately in the specification of the device although, from a sales point of view, storage capacity is usually given more prominence so you may have to look for it in the full spec list.   If you buy a new Windows laptop, for example, most will come with 4Gb or 8Gb of RAM. These are usually plug in chip sets that can easily be upgraded if required and some manufacturers offer this as an upgrade service or it's easy enough to do yourself. Having more RAM can significantly speed up your laptop if you are asking it to do a lot of things at once. The same principle applies to mobile devices except that you usually can't upgrade the factory fitted RAM yourself. 

[melmerby]

The Android OS is normally on the SoC (System on Chip) ARM based processor, The quoted RAM (ie. 8Gb) is usually separate*, some will be used by the system when it's running, that will reside in it's own partition, the rest can be used for storage by the user.

 

EDIT

On my Samsung Tab the system uses typically 3Gb of the 8Gb inbuilt RAM, leaving 5 Gb for the user. That is not much, it soon vanishes with a few photos & music files.

 

*Second Edit

The 8Gb might still be on the SoC but separate from the OS area.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by melmerby
more detail

[RobinofLoxley]

If its the case that only the OP is reporting a problem that might be nothing to do with the capacity of the Tablet, and no-one else has come in to say 'Yes I have a problem with that as well' then what are we discussing actually?

 

I'm interested as I will purchase a Tablet probably later this year, to run a z21 and iTrain in the future, so I have to get the spec right.

[WIMorrison]

Just now, RobinofLoxley said:

If its the case that only the OP is reporting a problem that might be nothing to do with the capacity of the Tablet, and no-one else has come in to say 'Yes I have a problem with that as well' then what are we discussing actually?

 

I'm interested as I will purchase a Tablet probably later this year, to run a z21 and iTrain in the future, so I have to get the spec right.

 

I also note that the OP hasn't yet confirmed how he is connecting between tablet and Z21 - is it via Roco supplied TP-Link router on a closed system, or using home Wi-Fi?  The problems when using a home Wi-Fi/wired network are legion and that is why Roco supply the router and will only offer support if you are using their router, and with it set to defaults.

[SamThomas]

15 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

First hit on a search 

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8117751?istCompanyId=a74d8886-5df9-4baa-b776-166b3bf9111c&istFeedId=30f62ea9-9626-4cac-97c8-9ff3921f8558&istItemId=immlqlaww&istBid=t&&cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157|acid:534-693-8244|cid:16577722243|agid:132965638685|tid:pla-1004600822848|crid:587868959751|nw:u|rnd:7724594398852865963|dvc:c|adp:|mt:|loc:9045345&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=16577722243&utm_term=8117751&utm_content=shopping&utm_custom1=132965638685&utm_custom2=534-693-8244&GPDP=true&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6pOTBhCTARIsAHF23fLgxzKFdN7D1cYiD-rbWUXiiZP9iskphhjRmxecKIsa9m06-aJXhFMaAqtEEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

There were pages of positive hits, at a variety of prices.  

Thanks Nigel - I did find a few but got a bit confiused about what I actually needed.

 

Ordered, will collect tomorrow & let you know the result.

[SamThomas]

8 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

I also note that the OP hasn't yet confirmed how he is connecting between tablet and Z21 - is it via Roco supplied TP-Link router on a closed system, or using home Wi-Fi?  The problems when using a home Wi-Fi/wired network are legion and that is why Roco supply the router and will only offer support if you are using their router, and with it set to defaults.

Yes, sorry, I'm using the Roco supplied TP-Link Router with no internet connection, Wi-Fi or ethernet.

[melmerby]

12 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Yes, sorry, I'm using the Roco supplied TP-Link Router with no internet connection, Wi-Fi or ethernet.

I can use my Samsung Tab 6 or my Moto G6 (android) phone or my Roco WLAN Maus. No problem with any of them.

I do not however have a layout on the app, I just use it for basic control of the trains, i.e. like a normal DCC handset.

 

The TP-Link router is connected to my PC but not the wider internet or house Wi-Fi (although it was at one point) and the PC runs TrainController (Gold 9)

The items work seemlessly together e.g. I can drive a train with the Maus whilst changing the points with the tablet (or vice versa), all replicated in TrainController on the PC.

[SamThomas]

That's interesting Keith, I may look into that if I still have issues after trying the adaptor that Nigel suggested.

[SamThomas]

Well, I've tried the adaptor that Nigel suggested & the through charging does not work.

 

In my ignorance I thought USB-C chargers were all 5v - looking on google it seems that USB-C PD chargers are 20v (which powers the internals of the adaptors) & the device interfaces with the adaptor for the voltage it needs.

 

If this is correct then none of the USB chargers I have (& there are many of them) are PD type, simply the earlier 5v type.

 

Getting more & more confused.

[melmerby]

17 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Well, I've tried the adaptor that Nigel suggested & the through charging does not work.

 

In my ignorance I thought USB-C chargers were all 5v - looking on google it seems that USB-C PD chargers are 20v (which powers the internals of the adaptors) & the device interfaces with the adaptor for the voltage it needs.

 

If this is correct then none of the USB chargers I have (& there are many of them) are PD type, simply the earlier 5v type.

 

Getting more & more confused.

I'm not surprised you are confused

USB-C is supposed to be an all encompassing standard, using intelligent power delivery to allow charging everything from 'phones to laptops with the voltage & current they need but right now it is rather up in the air and hasn't been fully implemented.

AFAIK my fairly up to date PC, which has USB-C (and seemingly every other USB standard you can think of) only has 5v charge capability.

[SamThomas]

Thanks Keith,

 

Nothing simple..............

 

I'll pop along to the local computer shop tomorrow with tablet & adaptors to see if they have a PD charger that will work - can only take the tablet out !

[SamThomas]

To add, I've googled the spec's of my Galaxy Tab 7 & it appears that it is "PD Charger" friendly so hopefully it will get sorted tomorrow.

[KingEdwardII]

13 hours ago, SamThomas said:

I thought USB-C chargers were all 5v

No, most certainly not. My Macbook Pro uses USB-C charging @ 20V, for example.

 

There is a USB Power Delivery standard that supports voltages of 5/9/15/20 V and maximum power up to 100W. They are working on a revised version of this standard to support even higher voltages and more power, aimed at the power tool market.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[WIMorrison]

You might find that the latest standard is 240w

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

No, most certainly not. My Macbook Pro uses USB-C charging @ 20V, for example.

 

There is a USB Power Delivery standard that supports voltages of 5/9/15/20 V and maximum power up to 100W. They are working on a revised version of this standard to support even higher voltages and more power, aimed at the power tool market.

 

Yours,  Mike.

 

20 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

You might find that the latest standard is 240w

 

It seems ridiculous that a connector with a contact area per terminal is a fraction of a mm can be used, reliably, for such powers.

There are plenty of connectors out there with greater contact areas that run warm with such levels of power transfer.

 

How reliable are these going to be?

 

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

You might find that the latest standard is 240w

 

I had to read that twice.  First time I thought you said 240v !!

Time to clean my specs 😁

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

 

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

You might find that the latest standard is 240w

It seems ridiculous that a connector with a contact area per terminal is a fraction of a mm can be used, reliably, for such powers.

There are plenty of connectors out there with greater contact areas that run warm with such levels of power transfer.

 

How reliable are these going to be?

 

 

I suspect problematic.   Depends how well devices check the power handling of the connection before requesting 100+Watts.  

 

It looks like an unintended side-effect of the standards policy requiring device makers to have only one or two standard power sockets - i.e. fix the problem of every different phone and gadget having its own bespoke manufacturer's power plug - which resulted in loads of PSU bricks, all tied to single devices, really expensive replacement power supplies when a lead was snagged, etc..  .     That standardisation seemed to work pretty well for a while, as most devices used the (old style) small USB plug shapes.  But, USB-C seems to be pushing the boundaries of power handling.   

 

 

- Nigel

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

I suspect problematic.   Depends how well devices check the power handling of the connection before requesting 100+Watts.  

 

It looks like an unintended side-effect of the standards policy requiring device makers to have only one or two standard power sockets - i.e. fix the problem of every different phone and gadget having its own bespoke manufacturer's power plug - which resulted in loads of PSU bricks, all tied to single devices, really expensive replacement power supplies when a lead was snagged, etc..  .     That standardisation seemed to work pretty well for a while, as most devices used the (old style) small USB plug shapes.  But, USB-C seems to be pushing the boundaries of power handling.   

 

 

- Nigel

I assume it's a side effect of the EU's standardisation of charging devices, mainly aimed at reining in Apple and it's desire to always be different.

Nearly every standard seems to have had an Apple alternative, electrically similar but mechanically non compatible.

[SamThomas]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

I assume it's a side effect of the EU's standardisation of charging devices, mainly aimed at reining in Apple and it's desire to always be different.

Nearly every standard seems to have had an Apple alternative, electrically similar but mechanically non compatible.

I can understand Apple wanting to be different in innovative ways, but I feel that their desire to be different has more to do with selling their own brand accessories.

[SamThomas]

Well, some progress - I now have a Belkin USB-C PD (Power Delivery) Charger, a Belkin USB-C to Ethernet + Charge Adaotor & a Belkin USB-C to USB-C Lead and the tablet is charging OK.

 

I have plkugged the adaptor into one of the spare ports on the router, steady green light on, switched off the Wi-Fi on both the Tablet & the Router - no communication - maybe, I need to set the Ethernet up on the Tablet &/or the Z21 ? Basically, I'm stumped.

 

As an aside the tech guy at Curry's had no idea about PD chargers "never heard of them mate" *** so I went to Argos, went directly to the sales desk & asked the young lady "do you have any USB-C PD chargeres & she said yes & asked if my device was PD enabled, so I left with the aforesaid Belkin items. Thank you Argos, go to the back of the class Curry's.

 

*** I did look at the chargers in Curry's buit gave up when I realised that the person who had stuck the security tags on the boxes had helpfully covered up the specifications of the products !

[WIMorrison]

The green light on the network port only means that there is power on the connection. 
 

if you cannot see the router from the tablet it sounds like you don’t have a network enabled on the tablet.

 

yiu will need to read the manuals to find out how to create a network connection which needs to use DHCP to get an address issued by the router enabling you to connect between the tablet, the router and onto Z21

[Nigelcliffe]

57 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

 

I have plkugged the adaptor into one of the spare ports on the router, steady green light on, switched off the Wi-Fi on both the Tablet & the Router - no communication - maybe, I need to set the Ethernet up on the Tablet &/or the Z21 ? Basically, I'm stumped.

 

 

Might be as simple as "turn off WiFi" (and any cellular data if you have a SIM card)  on the Tablet. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

As an aside the tech guy at Curry's had no idea about PD chargers "never heard of them mate"

Why am I not surprised at that comment?😄

 

Shows just how useless their tech dept is/was/always has been.

My only experience of them is they are not up to speed on tech but are good at trying to sell you something, whether you need it or not.☹️

[KingEdwardII]

8 hours ago, SamThomas said:

I need to set the Ethernet up on the Tablet &/or the Z21 ?

Sam,

 

Have you tried connecting the USB/Ethernet adapter directly to the tablet, without the power charger?

 

Yours, Mike

[SamThomas]

Sucess !

 

Tried a different Ethernet cable, turned off Wi-Fi on the tablet & the router, enabled ethernet on the tablet & it seems to be OK now on it's wired connection.

 

Thanks to all that have helped with advice & suggestions - I was getting very close to giving up.

 

It does appear that a lot of people (including myself) are/were not up to speed with PD (Power Delivery) chargers & USB-C interfacing.